Contador Crash - Tour Disaster ?

[Netbalp]

Yes, because he's the best in the business. And your previous analogy is correct.

Contador would have beaten Froome too.

Contador and Nibali pull out. Froome wins. Undeserved winner.
Contador and Froome pull out. Nibali wins. Undeserved winner
Nibali and Froome pull out. Contador wins. Deserved winner.

?

Let us not hold the races and simply give the trophy to the 'best in the business rider'.

 

[Netbalp]

Contador and Nibali pull out. Froome wins. Undeserved winner.
Contador and Froome pull out. Nibali wins. Undeserved winner
Nibali and Froome pull out. Contador wins. Deserved winner.

?

Let us not hold the races and simply give the trophy to the 'best in the business rider'.

Nibali is as deserved winner as anyone else.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Nibali IS a deserving winner. Not his fault the other crashed out. I think he would have finished behind Froome and Contador despite his epic ride on the cobbles (so many epic mountain stages yet to go), but it really isnt Nibalis fault they are gone so he desserves the win. But its a damn shame for the race that the two best GC riders are gone. And it is also a shame for Nibali cos everyone will say: "he onle won cos they abandoned"

Yeah, of the riders left he is probably the most deserving winner, I'll give you that much.

 

[personal]

Whoever wins is deserving winner, but with main opponents crashed out, they remain undefeated so the victory is less fulfilling.

 

[Cimber]

Whoever wins is deserving winner, but with main opponents crashed out, they remain undefeated so the victory is less fulfilling.

There are exceptions but in general you are right. But that doesnt mean that the Tour is not the same after the two best riders are gone, so yes it is less fulfilling, just as it had been for COntador with Froome out. Still a deserved win though.

 

[SeriousSam]

Indeed, I would be a deserving winner if every other rider crashed out and I somehow made it to Paris. The merit would obviously be equivalent if I had beaten a field consisting of Froome, Contador and Nibali.

Seems like some posters have trouble distinguishing between whether Nibali is at fault for something and the impressiveness of his Tour de France victory.

 

[SafeBet]

Indeed, I would be a deserving winner if every other rider crashed out and I somehow made it to Paris. The merit would obviously be equivalent if I had beaten a field consisting of Froome, Contador and Nibali.
.

Indeed you'd be a deserving winner, because staying on your bike is a crucial part of being a cyclist.
The level of nonsense about this Tour after Contador's crash has reached unprecedented peaks. Crashes have always been part of this sport. The mere fact that Nibali has not (yet) crashed out makes him a more deserving winner than anyone who had to abandon because of a crash.

This is generation Sky at his best really. Put them in a lab, check the wattage they can produce and give the best a trophy. Luckily cycling is something different.

And I laugh at the analogy with Schleck. Andy didn't win his Tour on the road. Unlike Nibali (in case he wins it). Andy wasn't the best rider able to reach Paris.


Where were all these moral knights when Bobby G always crashed at the Tour?

 

[Netserk]

Indeed you'd be a deserving winner, because staying on your bike is a crucial part of being a cyclist.
The level of nonsense about this Tour after Contador's crash has reached unprecedented peaks. Crashes have always been part of this sport. The mere fact that Nibali has not (yet) crashed out makes him a more deserving winner than anyone who had to abandon because of a crash.

This is generation Sky at his best really. Put them in a lab, check the wattage they can produce and give the best a trophy. Luckily cycling is something different.

And I laugh at the analogy with Schleck. Andy didn't win his Tour on the road. Unlike Nibali (in case he wins it). Andy wasn't the best rider able to reach Paris.


Where were all these moral knights when Bobby G always crashed at the Tour?

Totally agree. It's a race afterall.

Sure I do think Contador would have won if he didn't crash, but he crashed. I also don't think Floyd would have won against Basso, but you can only beat those who are there, and his (and hopefully Nibali's) Tour win was fully deserved. Some also seem to forget how Contador won his first Tour...

 

[rhubroma]

Contador and Nibali pull out. Froome wins. Undeserved winner.
Contador and Froome pull out. Nibali wins. Undeserved winner
Nibali and Froome pull out. Contador wins. Deserved winner.

?

Let us not hold the races and simply give the trophy to the 'best in the business rider'.

No, I'm not saying, if he wins, he dosn't deserve it. Of course he does. However he himself recognizes that if Froome and Contador were in the race, he would be more honored in winning, because strong rivals do honor to one's triumphs.

Now if you ask me would he have won with AC still in the race, I say no. But, alas, we will never know.

And I stand by what I said: AC is the best in the business, whereas Froome is a laboratory phenomenon.

 

[el chava]

He has said himself the he is still just going for the podium.

“My goal remains the podium at the moment," he said. "Should we be able to gain some time and target something else, we won't rule it our and we won't stay content with what we got.

I really wish he could change his mindset. Coming into the Tour he wanted to podium. Now the two biggest challengers are gone. Hypothetically, if he thought he could podium in the beginning, his mind set now should be that he can win. I think any other rider would think that way.

Noone thinks that way. ASO seriously need to scrap the podium ceremony and just celebrate the winner to put and end to this kind of "racing".

 

[Futuroscope]

The 'best' don't allow their rivals to take two and a half minutes out them on a flat stage. The 'best' don't repeatedly fall off their bikes due to bad positioning and pressure applied by their rivals. The 'best' don't panic on descents. The 'best' don't allow the wet and cold conditions to hold them back..... The real best? He's the guy who's still on his bike at the end of three weeks crossing the finish line before everyone else.

All of the above happens to the best. Back when Hinault was the best all of the above happened to him. As for Contador he is a very skilled on his bike, if he wasn't he wouldn't have won all the GTs he has.

 

[ILovecycling]

Totally agree. It's a race afterall.

Sure I do think Contador would have won if he didn't crash, but he crashed. I also don't think Floyd would have won against Basso, but you can only beat those who are there, and his (and hopefully Nibali's) Tour win was fully deserved. Some also seem to forget how Contador won his first Tour...

As for me I think he could have won even with Rasmussen in the race (he would have gave him a more than 3 minutes)

 

[Afrank]

Still disputable. Simply because he was "awesome" on the cobbles he doesn't automatically deserve to win everything that can be won Some people think he's not a deserving winner because he didn't beat the two main favorites. Deal with it.

What are you talking about?!! Of course it does! That along with his long history of always attacking no matter what and always being a rider that makes the racing exciting. He's very much like Contador in fact.

And I can "deal with it" just fine. Doesn't mean I can't argue my point for why he is deserving and a true winner of the race.

 

[GJB123]

Golly, I am reading al to of nonsense on this thread.

First and foremost let me say that I think AC would have won this year barring accidents. And yes, I think he and the measure of Froome and Nibali going up.

Having said that, Nibali (or who ever wins) will be the deserving winner because:
1. To finish first, you first have to finish. It is not his fault that neither Froome nor AC managed to stay upright.
2. You can always only beat those who compete. It is not fair declaring someone wouldn't have won if rider X or rider Y would have been there or at least you can't hold that against the winner.

So if Nibali wins, he deserves to win because he will have been the best after 3 weeks of grueling racing. Sure I still would have liked it more if we had seen the fight between Nibali, AC and Froome and still think AC would have tken it, but as it stands it is now Nibali's TdF to lose.

 

[LaFlorecita]

What are you talking about?!! Of course it does! That along with his long history of always attacking no matter what and always being a rider that makes the racing exciting. He's very much like Contador in fact.

And I can "deal with it" just fine. Doesn't mean I can't argue my point for why he is deserving and a true winner of the race.

I am not saying he doesn't deserve a Tour win. I'm saying THIS Tour win, is not entirely deserved. And yes he's kind of like Contador, except Contador is a much better climber and doesn't complain about other riders.

 

[Afrank]

A thought just occurred to me about this whole deserving winner discussion:

A rider in a GT shouldn't be judged by which of his competitors crashed out, but by their individual performances in the race. And Nibali's performances thus far have been fantastic.

 

[LaFlorecita]

just getting this thread back on track

Oops! sorry. Wrong thread

 

[LaFlorecita]

A thought just occurred to me about this whole deserving winner discussion:

A rider in a GT shouldn't be judged by which of his competitors crashed out, but by their individual performances in the race. And Nibali's performances thus far have been fantastic.

I don't think anyone will disagree

 

[phanatic]

Some tours are more memorable for the level of competition, others for bad luck, and some, such as 2011, for a bit of both. Winning any specific race, even le Tour, doesn't mean you are the best cyclist, climber, stage racer, etc., so why knock a cyclist, especially when he is winning stages?

 

[MBotero]

Contador fans seems like they have a veil over they eyes,they live in their fantasy world,they become day by day more ridiculous.First it was Wiggins who certainly won TDF in 2012 because Contador was not there,then in 2013 he was there but Froome destroyed him,this time"he was not in form",now is 2014 Nibali didn't even won yet,but of course he doesn't deserve it because Contador is not here anymore,plus Contador would have crush him anyway.I would love to see Froome sprinting up the mountains,but he's not here,other guy will win it ,maybe Nibali and that guy deserves all the credit.

 

[Netbalp]

Contador fans seems like they have a veil over they eyes,they live in their fantasy world,they become day by day more ridiculous.First it was Wiggins who certainly won TDF in 2012 because Contador was not there,then in 2013 he was there but Froome destroyed him,this time"he was not in form",now is 2014 Nibali didn't even won yet,but of course he doesn't deserve it because Contador is not here anymore,plus Contador would have crush him anyway.I would love to see Froome sprinting up the mountains,but he's not here,other guy will win it ,maybe Nibali and that guy deserves all the credit.

+1. The things the road presents and the things one dreamt to see merged together. All of us expected a different showdown but that's the Tour. Hats off, Shark of Messina. Chapeau to grande campione!

 

[maxmartin]

Contador fans seems like they have a veil over they eyes,they live in their fantasy world,they become day by day more ridiculous.First it was Wiggins who certainly won TDF in 2012 because Contador was not there,then in 2013 he was there but Froome destroyed him,this time"he was not in form",now is 2014 Nibali didn't even won yet,but of course he doesn't deserve it because Contador is not here anymore,plus Contador would have crush him anyway.I would love to see Froome sprinting up the mountains,but he's not here,other guy will win it ,maybe Nibali and that guy deserves all the credit.

not worth the energy to argue with them, and only those a few ids reply to each other post to create a dream world for themselves.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

When Nibali crosses that finishline in Paris he will be crowned the greatest GT rider of his generation by his peers. Conti-fans must be jealous about that.

Staying on your bike is also a quality, ask Geraint Thomas.

 

[LaFlorecita]

When Nibali crosses that finishline in Paris he will be crowned the greatest GT rider of his generation by his peers. Conti-fans must be jealous about that.

Staying on your bike is also a quality, ask Geraint Thomas.

Not jealous because I know it's BS

 

[Afrank]

When Nibali crosses that finishline in Paris he will be crowned the greatest GT rider of his generation by his peers. Conti-fans must be jealous about that.

Staying on your bike is also a quality, ask Geraint Thomas.

Actually I was thinking I would go ahead and crown him the greatest GT rider of all time. Merckx, Hinault, Contador, even Armstrong; none can handle the hurt Nibs brings.