Contador: "I have never doped. Never."

Page 5 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Oct 29, 2009
2,578
0
0
ridecanada said:
Finding: Spain is a place where ------.
So you go from we have to cheaters in Canada, but it is the Spanish that are all dirty because one body might or might not be corrupt.

I gave a public warning that this would not be tolerated.

Stop it RIGHT NOW. If you want to raise a point about this, do it through a private mail to me, or another mod, no argument here either.

You are free to argue how governing bodies function, you are free to argue about individual cheaters.

The moment you mention "in Spain" or "the Spanish" again, as if they are all at it, you overstep the mark. There will then be further consequences.
 

ridecanada

BANNED
Oct 8, 2010
5
0
0
I will not talk about spanish cheaters again.

[mod comment - removed the public argument with mod , plus the insult directed at me]

Lets be fair, the Spanish have a problem with doping. It seems to be systemic and the sports bodies turn a blind eye to it. This is my opinion, anyone is free to disagree, and post their ideas.

I like reading other people's ideas, its called a free exchange of information.
 
Oct 29, 2009
2,578
0
0
ridecanada said:
[mod comment - removed the public argument with mod , plus the insult directed at me]

Lets be fair, the Spanish have a problem with doping. It seems to be systemic and the sports bodies turn a blind eye to it. This is my opinion, anyone is free to disagree, and post their ideas.

I like reading other people's ideas, its called a free exchange of information.
It's the other ideas you had, about the Spanish people in general, and their culture in general, that got you in trouble with me. Not the above bit.

So moving on and debating your opinion:


Let's be even fairer: all nations have a problem with doping and cheaters. No exceptions.

It seems there are plenty of Canadians who prefer cheating as the quick route (or only viable route) to success too, you even name some yourself. And there are plenty of Americans, Dutch, English, Germans, Italians, Belgians........

Nor is the Spanish sports governing body the only national body that protects its own, or shows more leniency than warranted.

And I take all Canadian sport organizations are really testing pro-athletes to the max then?

Blind, complacent and corrupt eyes are everywhere. Most have never seen Spain.

And there are also plenty of individuals and organisations want nothing to do with it. Some of those even speak Spanish.

But I do agree, that when it comes to cycling, the Spanish have a bigger hornets nest to tackle than some. That bit in your post is really not what the fuss regarding your posts is all about.

However, you might find it hard to believe, but I would still argue that Spanish Cycling has made more progress than some other sports and sports organisations have, even in other nations.

There are plenty of sports, sports bodies, and those reporting on it, that are lagging well behind the really poor "anti-doping culture" in Spanish cycling, as you perceive it. One or two of them are likely to be Canadian. And Dutch.

And just because one or two law enforcers, or world bodies, are making a big stink in one or two nations, that doesn't mean that it didn't took a lot of blind national eyes before someone finally busted one or two open.

And even with a mayor scandal or two behind their belt, some folk happily settle for the perception that those were the national exceptions. Please, no real boat rocking required. It's the other places.

If only their cheaters were more like our cheaters, things would be a lot better, not?


BTW, one more thing:

Canada: We stripped Ben Johnson of his medal, he was banned for life. Jeanson, also banned for life. Finding: Canada hard on dopers
With "we" you mean the international IOC and IAAF. With banned for life you mean after the 2nd offence, as "we" Canadians actually came out in record numbers to welcome him back from the first ban, and were a bit less happy when he became another world-news embarrassment for Canada. Your laws at the time actually allowed him to come back a 3rd time in Canada alone (the rest of the world was a no-go zone). When he again failed yet another drug test. And the widespread and systematic doping wasn't brought to light by the Canadian national sports body either, but was forced into the daylight through an extensive external enquiry, which only highlighted how happy some sports had been with all the blind Canadian eyes, as cheating was entrenched.

So when you say that this Ben Johnson example showed that Canada is hard on Dopers, you were kinda stretching it a bit thin, not?

If the first domino in your line of proof is already that badly aligned, I am not gonna point out why your last domino doesn't fall with the argument you made. It has bad assumptive leaps all over the place.

I do however accept that Cycling and Political Spain has some of that route still ahead of itself. I do give you that.
 
Yeah, everyone should pretend that all countries and cultures are the same and no country has an environment where drug use in sport is more permissible than any other country. :rolleyes:

There should be a thread somewhere for notice to be posted before the mods launch their latest crusade.
 
Oct 29, 2009
2,578
0
0
BroDeal said:
Yeah, everyone should pretend that all countries and cultures are the same and no country has an environment where drug use in sport is more permissible than any other country. :rolleyes:

There should be a thread somewhere for notice to be posted before the mods launch their latest crusade.
You might want to re-read my post(s) and his posts then Bro Deal.

1) I highlighted in blue which bits of your posts that are not what the issue with ridecanada is about. And made the bits that are touching upon the "crusade" that I am on, regarding this user's posts, in red.

2) I also explicitly stated the opposite of "everyone is the same" several times, I even accepted that besides several weak arguments that ridecanada made, his central point, that Cycling Spain has a bigger problem than most, is valid in my eyes too. So why you distil it to "everyone is the same" is beyond me.
 
May 8, 2009
376
0
0
I think the post of Francois the Postman was impecable.

I do no think there is any single person in this forum that do not criticize the Spanish Cycling Federation for handlening doping poorly (other thing is for example Guardia Civil, who actually found the Operacion Puerto and put those guys in front of a judge)

But it is out of place to generalize behaviours or cultures to a whole country of 44 million guys (including me). It is irresponsible, but furthermore it is very easy to show that sadly almost everywhere bad examples are to be found, in cycling or other sports.
 

ridecanada

BANNED
Oct 8, 2010
5
0
0
No more comments on ethnicity or nationality

In Canada they stopped reporting the ethnicity of many suspects in crimes as it was considered to be racism. The reason it was considered to be racist is that everytime a shooting occured in Toronto, it turned out the suspect was black.

Is it racist that they reported it? Or is this just political correctness?

I would like everyone to put their political correctness aside, when we hear of doping, what nationality do you think of first?
 
Sep 25, 2009
7,527
0
0
it seems like it's time for racecanada to face some long promised consequences for fanning over and over the xenophobic and cultural prejudices.

does not look like the tread will return to it's topic w/o that.
 
ridecanada said:
[mod comment - removed the public argument with mod , plus the insult directed at me]

Lets be fair, the Spanish have a problem with doping. It seems to be systemic and the sports bodies turn a blind eye to it. This is my opinion, anyone is free to disagree, and post their ideas.

I like reading other people's ideas, its called a free exchange of information.
Just admit you erred with your generalization of Spanish culture and move on.
You're only digging a deeper hole by denying it. If this is how you truly feel and you see nothing wrong with your perspective then no one can help you and there is nothing further to discuss here.
 
I have long looked forward to hearing a current, high-profile rider just come out and say an unequivocal no, I don't dope.

Now that this has happened in the form of a triple Tour winner, it turns out to be less than satisfactory, in the same vein as:

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

It's unsatisfactory, I realise, because it's a reaction. So this tells me that, when I looked forward to that unequivocal no, I wanted to hear it from someone not already under suspicion. And these are the people who don't want to talk about it.
 
Mar 8, 2010
3,263
1
0
ridecanada said:
[mod comment - removed the public argument with mod , plus the insult directed at me]

Lets be fair, the Spanish have a problem with doping. It seems to be systemic and the sports bodies turn a blind eye to it. This is my opinion, anyone is free to disagree, and post their ideas.

I like reading other people's ideas, its called a free exchange of information.
My idea

King Juan Carlos said:

"Give me a Spanish

- F1 champion
- Grand Slam winner
- Tour de France champion
- Soccer Worldchampions

at any costs, before I die."

Good idea, isn't it ? Nice to be king.
 

flicker

BANNED
Aug 17, 2009
4,153
0
0
Cobblestoned said:
My idea

King Juan Carlos said:

"Give me a Spanish

- F1 champion
- Grand Slam winner
- Tour de France champion
- Soccer Worldchampions

at any costs, before I die."

Good idea, isn't it ? Nice to be king.
Speaking to a friend, he told me that Spain is still suffering from the oppression of Franco.

Could Juan Carlos be interested in having the narcotic of the masses sport placate the current social issues in Spain? I know J.C. loves his country.
 
Jul 6, 2010
2,340
0
0
flicker said:
Speaking to a friend, he told me that Spain is still suffering from the oppression of Franco.

Could Juan Carlos be interested in having the narcotic of the masses sport placate the current social issues in Spain? I know J.C. loves his country.
Jesus loves Spain? The Americans are always telling us that they're his favourite...
 
Oct 11, 2010
777
0
0
RobbieCanuck said:
This is the most inane rationalization for doping I have ever heard. The edge flicker is talking about is using performance enhancing drugs. Sure it is a fact in sport, but the whole point is that it should not be. There must be a level playing field so the best athlete wins the day, not the best druggie.

Flicker you are a hypocrite and an Ishmael, neither of which is something of which to be proud. It is jerks like you that perpetuate the drug problems in sport. *** edited by mod ***

Ha. Flicker the anonymous clinic poster is largely responsible for the fact that doping is still common practice in sport.
 

flicker

BANNED
Aug 17, 2009
4,153
0
0
Altitude said:
RobbieCanuck said:
This is the most inane rationalization for doping I have ever heard. The edge flicker is talking about is using performance enhancing drugs. Sure it is a fact in sport, but the whole point is that it should not be. There must be a level playing field so the best athlete wins the day, not the best druggie.

Flicker you are a hypocrite and an Ishmael, neither of which is something of which to be proud. It is jerks like you that perpetuate the drug problems in sport. *** edited by mod ***

Ha. Flicker the anonymous clinic poster is largely responsible for the fact that doping is still common practice in sport.
Driving home from the Northe Country faire, I heard Bill Romanowski former All Pro 49er linebacker advertizing lean gain weight loss medication for athletes. As the "clean athlete" I knew him to be I wonder if there was a little clen in his supplements? I pity the poor fool who would take his advice.
 
Oct 29, 2009
2,578
0
0
theswordsman said:
I posted the link last week for Contador's press conference (in Spanish). I just saw that his youtube channel has the two parts of the interview with English subtitles, so you can see the complete questions along with the responses.

http://www.youtube.com/user/albertocontador0com#p/u/1/PuO2Sf_IA5I
Thanks for that. I was hoping I would get a chance to see the interview myself, in a way that I could actually follow. People reported on several aspects, but this will be as close as I am gonna come without a course in Spanish.

It was a pretty soft interview, with few tricky questions in it, and answers very much taken by the reporter as Contador gave them, without ever challenging him on detail, or substance. I would have been amazed if Contador had sat down for a hostile interview, so I haven no real beef with that, no pun intended.

Curious to hear Contador state so unequivocal that he never doped, without giving himself a get-out clause. Well, he has said it now. Let's see how that one will play out then.

I thought the other curious thing was that, given the often levelled accusation that the Spanish cycling organisation is Spanish rider's best friend, Contador stated he wasn't happy that the UCI had passed the buck on this. I know the additional speculation why this is so, but it looks like it isn't the simple "friends in 2 corners" situation that some portray it to be.

In the interview he actually seemed to narrow his own defensive options, by stating that the option that the meat was imported from outside Spain was generated by outside speculation, but not based on the facts as AC had them. So he was not opening the door to it at all, which was not what I had picked up from those who were reporting back on this before I could see it myself.

From his pov, the comments about Astana and Riis made total sense, although from my pov, I am not surprised that Astana wants as little to do with it, publicly, as possible. I guess they are delighted he didn't re-sign after all.

I take that Contador was ok with the question about a possible retirement, if sanctioned beyond "x" months, but I thought he actually tried to worm his way out of answering that one, as opposed to making it a flagging issue. Those are the sort of threats/answers that tie your hands, when you are likely to have to walk through that door at some point. Options you want to keep open and make with better overall info on the table. I think that that "what next?" one came more from the reporter than Camp Contador.

Soft and sympathetic doesn't mean that Contador would get it 100% his way. Only mostly so. I think that sometimes riders do make statements about things in the flow of things that get a bit over-analysed for deeper meaning in here. Some issues only crop up because the media raises it with them. I know opinions will differ about this one. I am for the more cautious reading here.

Thanks again for the pointer swordman.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
masking_agent The Clinic 11
B The Clinic 2
D The Clinic 10

ASK THE COMMUNITY