Contador positive!!!!!

[SlowBloke]

UCI Statement

OK, I've only read 42 of the 65 pages, so this may have already been said.

The UCI statement is, in part:

"In view of this very small concentration and in consultation with WADA, the UCI immediately had the proper results management proceedings conducted including the analysis of B sample that confirmed the first result. The rider, who had already put an end to his cycling season before the result was known, was nevertheless formally and provisionally suspended as is prescribed by the World Anti-Doping Code.

This case required further scientific investigation before any conclusion could be drawn.

The UCI continues working with the scientific support of WADA to analyse all the elements that are relevant to the case. This further investigation may take some more time."

Some people are taking this to mean that the UCI are trying to get Contador off the hook.

However, if you take the view that the tiny amout detected could have been present due to an infusion, it is possible that the UCI also may be thinking that. If you read the above statment again, it could indicate that this possibilty is being investigated and they are trying not to mess up the bust of a smart doper who screwed up slightly.

 

[patrick767]

Why haven't there been so many other positives with pros eating this "clen meat"? Why would AC take the meat and eat it from some place in Spain when he in Pau and knows that the eat has clen in it? Why would he get meat all the way from Spain? Surely the meat wouldn't be too good after all that travel in the car unless he had a eski?

Because as an article here on cycling news says, most labs may not be capable of detecting such a small amount.

 

[Epicycle]

De Boer is an expert hired by Contador, is that correct? He was the first expert hired by Floyd also. If I remember correctly he witnessed the B sample testing for Floyd. I'm not saying De Boer is biased but we haven't heard a detailed WADA lab report yet. Still, without any further evidence against him obviously Alberto has a good shot of beating this charge.

 

[Parrot23]

I know, Human Plasma Denis and Cadel.

LOL, it took Dennis a long time to "recover" after the Human Plasma place was shut down (sustained drop in performance). That after beating a thoroughly doped Di Luca in the Giro. A very "credible" performance

 

[mastersracer]

De Boer is an expert hired by Contador, is that correct? He was the first expert hired by Floyd also. If I remember correctly he witnessed the B sample testing for Floyd. I'm not saying De Boer is biased but we haven't heard a detailed WADA lab report yet. Still, without any further evidence against him obviously Alberto has a good shot of beating this charge.

he made exactly the same case for Fuyu Li earlier this year, who faces a 2 year suspension

http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=16821

 

[Dr. Maserati]

OK, I've only read 42 of the 65 pages, so this may have already been said.

The UCI statement is, in part:

"In view of this very small concentration and in consultation with WADA, the UCI immediately had the proper results management proceedings conducted including the analysis of B sample that confirmed the first result. The rider, who had already put an end to his cycling season before the result was known, was nevertheless formally and provisionally suspended as is prescribed by the World Anti-Doping Code.

This case required further scientific investigation before any conclusion could be drawn.

The UCI continues working with the scientific support of WADA to analyse all the elements that are relevant to the case. This further investigation may take some more time."

Some people are taking this to mean that the UCI are trying to get Contador off the hook.

However, if you take the view that the tiny amout detected could have been present due to an infusion, it is possible that the UCI also may be thinking that. If you read the above statment again, it could indicate that this possibilty is being investigated and they are trying not to mess up the bust of a smart doper who screwed up slightly.

But the point is - it is not for the UCI to prove Alberto's innocence.

Its his sample - positive for a banned substance - its up to him (& his legal, scientific team) to come up with a scenario to show that he did not willfully ingest this.
Even if he can do that - he is still guilty, but could be liable for a lesser sanction. Which may be appealed by WADA.

 

[nicholaaaas]

Calves undergoing clenbuterol therapy, where cessation of medication occurred 28 days pre-slaughter, had residues of Clenbuterol in their eye tissue, with a concentration 100 times higher than that of Contador's sample. http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a902491864

Let'im off the hook!

so are you saying he ate veal eyes on the rest day?

 

[nicholaaaas]

It's approximately 3 μg in his whole body. the lowest typical therapeutic dose is typically 20 μg/day.

and how do you extrapolate that number?

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

LOL, it took Dennis a long time to "recover" after the Human Plasma place was shut down (sustained drop in performance). That after beating a thoroughly doped Di Luca in the Giro. A very "credible" performance

Humanplasma shut itself down when their clients in the austrian biathlon & XC ski teams were busted at the 2006 winter olympics. This has been confirmed by Bernard Kohl.

 

[Joey_J]

he made exactly the same case for Fuyu Li earlier this year, who faces a 2 year suspension

http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=16821

and in Cyclingnews too. Li had about the same amount as AC. I don't think it's possible to sanction Li and not AC.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/anti-doping-expert-lends-li-support-in-doping-case

 

[Der_Gestreifte]

quick´n´dirty, yet to the best of my knowlege

My german ain't what it used to be...

Can you expand at all on the plasticiser claim? What reason does ARD have to suspect that is the case?

From ca. 00:01:40 to ca. 00:02:50 of that clip:

Q: How can the UCI´s behaviour concerning this case be explained?
A: The UCI has had a lot of problems concerning credibility during the
last years, think of, for example, Lance Armstrong, how they acted in
that case. In this story, in my opinion, it is totaly clear, that they
acted against the rules. A- and B-samples have long since been taken,
the the whole procedure has been complete and still the public has not
been informed. It seems as if this case should be kept under the mat,
or that they wanted to give Contador the opportunity to find points
which could speak for his innocence. Such a thing must not be, to me
it seems like a cartell of silencers, concealers and liars.

Q: Contador blames contaminated food, how likely is that?
A: ARD has exact values and these values show that it not very likely,
especially as in europe it is almost impossible that food is
contaminated with clenbuterol. It might happen in Asia, but is
strictly forbidden in europe an also there were no other positives at
the Tour, so Contador´s claims are not very credible.

Q: Are there any other suspicious facts against Contador?
A: Yes, there are futher, very, very incriminating[translation?] facts
against Contador because other values have shown up. [i have to
interprete this, because Seppelt says "10-fach über dem überhöhten
wert", which translates to "10 times higher than the higher
value". What he prabably means is:] 10 times higher than the value of
threshold for plastisisers, so called plastisisers, which are used in
blood-bags, and this one day before the positive blood sample. ANd these
blood-bag plastisisers endorse the conclusion that homologous blood
doping might be going on. The UCI completely held this "under the blanket", din´t
say a thing about it yesterday [when they contacted the UCI]. This too
raises the question about the credibility of die federation.

Could the admission of this innocuous positive be a smokescreen to cover up a more serious one?[/tinfoil hat]

Does "blood transfusion" qualify as "more serious"?

 

[El Pistolero]

Yeah, German sources, that's credible.

 

[Merckx index]

The precedents make this almost impossible for AC to avoid sanction, IMO. I think he will be stripped of his Tour title and suspended.

BUT UCI could--and I think will--emphasize that they believe the food contamination theory, basing the sanction on a "sorry, but we have to follow the rules" logic. AC could receive less than two years. I'm betting he will be back in the Tour in 2012, and not impossible that he rides in 2011.

 

[LeonG2010]

Time for some mature reflection

"Millar calls for calm in Contador case"

I could not agree more.
Many of the comments about this case so far are an admixture of sheer ignorance; poorly informed speculation; & in some cases, wishful thinking based on the outright dislike of AC.

David Millar is right - a little more calm please. Let the investigation run its course.

 

[nicholaaaas]

A fluke ala Jan?!? Wow, you know cycling...

Anyway: The positive i a late justification for all the covering up of Contador being on the Fuentes list. Now all the riders who were allowed to still race despite doping, while others were used as scapegoats (Ullrich, Rasmussen, Basso), are caught: Valv-Piti, AC Contradoper and Epo-Lance waiting for the final curtain by Novitsky

i guess you're still made that Jan got caught

 

[bigloco]

"Millar calls for calm in Contador case"

I could not agree more.
Many of the comments about this case so far are an admixture of sheer ignorance; poorly informed speculation; & in some cases, wishful thinking based on the outright dislike of AC.

David Millar is right - a little more calm please. Let the investigation run its course.

Dude, you're in the cyclingnews forums! Calm? If theres a place for wild speculation, thumb-sucking, fetal-positioning and gnashing of teeth, this is the place to do it.

With all apologies to auscyclefan94, I really don't want to see two years of Cadel vs Carlos at the tour.

 

[filipo]

"Millar calls for calm in Contador case"

I could not agree more.
Many of the comments about this case so far are an admixture of sheer ignorance; poorly informed speculation; & in some cases, wishful thinking based on the outright dislike of AC.

David Millar is right - a little more calm please. Let the investigation run its course.

Is that the same David Millar who found Floyd Landis's recent admissions "disgusting" and basically told him to shut his mouth?

"He's reached the end of the road and I just find it disgusting," said Millar from his home training base in Girona, Spain. "He's a liar and a cheat and he has nothing left in cycling so he just wants to burn the house down."

Yeah Dave, we should all just keep calm...

 

[bigloco]

Riders and teams see the sponsorship dollars drying up and want to keep the status quo...

 

[Darryl Webster]

The expert's report presented by Count Clenbuterol (English )
This is the full text (And the curriculum of the author and three three tables in Appendix ) the report of Alberto Contador in the press conference that the winner of the Tour has given in Pinto ( Madrid). It is a report prepared by Dr. Douwe de Boer , Dutch biochemist Academic Hospital of Maastricht

http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=31038

Use translater if not in English.

The conclusions are clear ( BICICICLISMO translation ):
1. The concentration of clenbuterol found in the urine sample from Mr. Counter is extremely low.

2. It is very likely and would be fair to consider the scenario of an accidental ingestion of clenbuterol in meat consumption .

3. The WADA-accredited laboratories should not report Clenbuterol below 10 % ( 1/10th ) of MRPL of 2 ng / ml, ie 0.2 ng / ml (= 200 pg / ml ) being "fair and reasonable " this concentration to an adverse analytical finding of clenbuterol .

I call it distraction from real the real news being created by the FDA.

 

[nicholaaaas]

JUst checked the level that Fuyu Li was found to have in his sample and compared it to Contador. It is the same level!!

Fuyu Li had 0.05-0.1 ng
Contador had 50 pg

50pg = 0.05 ng

I can't see them letting him off unless Fuyu Li is too.

If you consider Jessica Hardy's case, he's looking at 12 months at least.

i think your conversion's are off

 

[Escarabajo]

...
15% is a bit high? Evans has an amazing ability to suffer. And even with that he lost massive chunks of time to Chicken and AC.

No it is not.

For some reason I thought you knew all this technical stuff. I am of the believers that Cadel is cleanish but not completely.

Here is a reading for your leisure time:

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/effect-of-epo-on-performance-who.html

 

[Jamsque]

From ca. 00:01:40 to ca. 00:02:50 of that clip:

Q: How can the UCI´s behaviour concerning this case be explained?
A: The UCI has had a lot of problems concerning credibility during the
last years, think of, for example, Lance Armstrong, how they acted in
that case. In this story, in my opinion, it is totaly clear, that they
acted against the rules. A- and B-samples have long since been taken,
the the whole procedure has been complete and still the public has not
been informed. It seems as if this case should be kept under the mat,
or that they wanted to give Contador the opportunity to find points
which could speak for his innocence. Such a thing must not be, to me
it seems like a cartell of silencers, concealers and liars.

Q: Contador blames contaminated food, how likely is that?
A: ARD has exact values and these values show that it not very likely,
especially as in europe it is almost impossible that food is
contaminated with clenbuterol. It might happen in Asia, but is
strictly forbidden in europe an also there were no other positives at
the Tour, so Contador´s claims are not very credible.

Q: Are there any other suspicious facts against Contador?
A: Yes, there are futher, very, very incriminating[translation?] facts
against Contador because other values have shown up. [i have to
interprete this, because Seppelt says "10-fach über dem überhöhten
wert", which translates to "10 times higher than the higher
value". What he prabably means is:] 10 times higher than the value of
threshold for plastisisers, so called plastisisers, which are used in
blood-bags, and this one day before the positive blood sample. ANd these
blood-bag plastisisers endorse the conclusion that homologous blood
doping might be going on. The UCI completely held this "under the blanket", din´t
say a thing about it yesterday [when they contacted the UCI]. This too
raises the question about the credibility of die federation.

Does "blood transfusion" qualify as "more serious"?

Thanks very much for that.

I'll be interested to see if their allegations about plasticisers show up anywhere else, so far I haven't seen that re-reported so I am not too sure about it.

I think their first point is the most important, though. Usually with these cases the moment the 'A' sample tests positive the story leaks to the media, even though no-one but the team and rider is supposed to be informed until the 'B' has been tested. This time, not only were there no leaks, but the public was not informed until WELL after the B sample had been tested, giving Contador ample time to prepare his defence. This is what makes me think that the UCI is shaping up to either not punish Alberto at all or give him a seriously reduced suspension.

 

[forumlurker]

sorry if this has been asked or answered already:

was ac's blood tested before/after the clen positive, and would the blood samples show evidence that he did or didn't receive a transfusion?

it would be a strong message if the uci had the balls to sanction their superstar, but i don't see it happening

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Has it been considered whether or not Contador was the ONLY person who ate from the specific "batch" or "cut" of meat?

If he was the only Astana rider eating the "contaminated" meat, I would be surprised. Very surprised.

If they all ate steaks, one would think there would be at least a few of them who'd also show these so called traces of Clenbuterol.

The German report about plasticisers, now that is very interesting.

Consider the fact the in the US, baseballer Manny Ramirez tested positive for hcg, but it was further testing that showed positive IRMS for synth T that provoked him to cop to the issue of hcg, in order to avoid the bigger scandal.

It could very well be that this is the "unfortunate" food contamination, which carries plenty of plausible deniability, is the cover for a greater, more damning offense.

 

[warmfuzzies]

Now I know what the fingerbang stands for

With every win, Alberto was merely showing fans how he injected the clenbuterol which propelled him to victory. Bang, bang is wrong. It's syringe push, push.