Contador positive!!!!!

[nicholaaaas]

As far as I am concerned, this is just a reminder that the playoffs are starting in baseball and the football season is in full swing. I can't be bothered by a sport as dirty as cycling.

please tell me that's a joke

 

[bobs nob]

please tell me that's a joke

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=353293#post353293

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=353359#post353359

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=353293#post353293

I hope these are the right links if they aren't go to pages 115 or 117. Sorry if they aren't correct. I answered the question you just asked 3 times.

I'm not criticizing. I do the same myself (shoot first and pretend to read the thread later). If people like us didn't do that, threads wouldn't go on for days and days about nothing in particular.

 

[flicker]

Anyone considered why Contador's explanation is that he ate Spanish mean? It's not because Spanish meat is necessarily more likely to be contaminated with clenbuterol than French meat - but it would have weakened his argument against why no one else during the entire Tour de France was found to have the drug in their body. Just about all other cyclists ate French cuisine - only Contador and his un-tested teammates ate Spanish meat. Of course Vino, the only teammate tested that day skipped both lunch and dinner when the meat was served.

How convenient.

You are a cynical man.

 

[nicholaaaas]

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=353293#post353293

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=353359#post353359

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=353293#post353293

I hope these are the right links if they aren't go to pages 115 or 117. Sorry if they aren't correct. I answered the question you just asked 3 times.

I'm not criticizing. I do the same myself (shoot first and pretend to read the thread later). If people like us didn't do that, threads wouldn't go on for days and days about nothing in particular.

i've seen as a read on... also fyi... you can link single posts

 

[thehog]

"I haven't spoken to him (Armstrong) but I know what he thinks about it through other people," he said.

"I really think people across Europe trust me. It’s a totally unjust situation. I’m a completely transparent person, dedicated to the struggle against doping and the call for anti-doping *sanctions against teams.

"I'm defending my position so ferociously because I'm speaking the truth, the whole truth.

"I don't want to think that people in France, Germany or on the Tour de France have something against me. I don't want to think that there is something else involved."

 

[moi123]

"I haven't spoken to him (Armstrong) but I know what he thinks about it through other people," he said.

"I really think people across Europe trust me. It’s a totally unjust situation. I’m a completely transparent person, dedicated to the struggle against doping and the call for anti-doping *sanctions against teams.

"I'm defending my position so ferociously because I'm speaking the truth, the whole truth.

"I don't want to think that people in France, Germany or on the Tour de France have something against me. I don't want to think that there is something else involved."

Very interesting interview, especially the armstrong part. But he's right, most people believe him or atleast give him the benefit of the doubt because of the extreme low percentage. I tend to believe he's the victim of a war between WADA and the UCI or anything else involved...

 

[thehog]

Very interesting interview, especially the armstrong part. But he's right, most people believe him or atleast give him the benefit of the doubt because of the extreme low percentage. I tend to believe he's the victim of a war between WADA and the UCI or anything else involved...

He can't speak to Lance whilst Armstrong phone is still bugged by the Feds.

 

[scribe]

It's almost like the mentioning of lance-poo's name takes some of the pressure off AC.

 

[thehog]

It's almost like the mentioning of lance-poo's name takes some of the pressure off AC.

Because McQuaid knows if he bans Conta then Alberto might just start telling people about the arrangments he had to put up with in 09. McQuaid's history stops him bringing the law down.

 

[scribe]

Hmmmm.... Berto might turn states evidence and go FULL METAL LANDIS?

 

[khardung la]

Anyone considered why Contador's explanation is that he ate Spanish mean? It's not because Spanish meat is necessarily more likely to be contaminated with clenbuterol than French meat - but it would have weakened his argument against why no one else during the entire Tour de France was found to have the drug in their body. Just about all other cyclists ate French cuisine - only Contador and his un-tested teammates ate Spanish meat. Of course Vino, the only teammate tested that day skipped both lunch and dinner when the meat was served.

How convenient.

It is not about the meat being Spanish or not, it is about having an alibi of a friend visiting him that very precise day. It is about having an exceptional reason for not having a normal meal that day

 

[Merckx index]

Anyone considered why Contador's explanation is that he ate Spanish mean? It's not because Spanish meat is necessarily more likely to be contaminated with clenbuterol than French meat - but it would have weakened his argument against why no one else during the entire Tour de France was found to have the drug in their body. Just about all other cyclists ate French cuisine - only Contador and his un-tested teammates ate Spanish meat. Of course Vino, the only teammate tested that day skipped both lunch and dinner when the meat was served.

How convenient.

It is not about the meat being Spanish or not, it is about having an alibi of a friend visiting him that very precise day. It is about having an exceptional reason for not having a normal meal that day

If the whole meat story were a fabrication, he should have said liver, because CB concentrations in liver of doped livestock are much higher than in muscle. In fact, past incidents of CB poisoning have usually occurred from eating beef liver, not steak. And while the evidence I have seen supports the possibility of 50 pg/ml from eating contaminated steak, some scientists are arguing that even that level is unlikely unless liver is ingested.

Bert had a month to make up a good story if he wanted to, and get all the players to say the right thing, but if that's what he did, he flopped badly.

 

[thehog]

"There's no justifiable benefit to be derived from clenbuterol that is worth the risk testing positive for it," says Joe Papp.

"It produces terrible muscle cramps and tremors that would leave you considering suicide if taken during the Tour. I would know: I've tried it and I had to abandon the race. There's nothing redeeming about it even in the off season.

"Doping with clenbuterol is the equivalent of crushing and snorting Adderal as an alternative to cocaine - you're not going to get much of a hit. So why bother? If he did, what an idiot."

 

[Der_Gestreifte]

It is not about the meat being Spanish or not, it is about having an alibi of a friend visiting him that very precise day.

Wait, you are confusing me.
Are you telling us the blood bags were brought by this Castilla y Leon guy?

 

[offbyone]

If the whole meat story were a fabrication, he should have said liver, because CB concentrations in liver of doped livestock are much higher than in muscle. In fact, past incidents of CB poisoning have usually occurred from eating beef liver, not steak. And while the evidence I have seen supports the possibility of 50 pg/ml from eating contaminated steak, some scientists are arguing that even that level is unlikely unless liver is ingested.

Bert had a month to make up a good story if he wanted to, and get all the players to say the right thing, but if that's what he did, he flopped badly.

In the end it doesn't matter. Without the actual meat to prove it or a pattern of positives for other rider's eating certain meat, it is just that-- a story. A story which can't be proved or disproved.

Lots of riders who have tested positive have also submitted stories that can't be proved or disproved.

If the UCI wants any credibility they need to stick to the same protocol for every rider. The UCI needs to make decisions based on test results, and blood passport not the rider himself.

It is ironic that this is happening during a time when the UCI is being accused of giving special treatment to armstrong. They refute that, yet here they do it again.

 

[peloton]

If the whole meat story were a fabrication, he should have said liver, because CB concentrations in liver of doped livestock are much higher than in muscle. In fact, past incidents of CB poisoning have usually occurred from eating beef liver, not steak. And while the evidence I have seen supports the possibility of 50 pg/ml from eating contaminated steak, some scientists are arguing that even that level is unlikely unless liver is ingested.

Bert had a month to make up a good story if he wanted to, and get all the players to say the right thing, but if that's what he did, he flopped badly.

In a 2009 scholarly paper co-authored by Prof. Wilhelm Schaenzer, the Cologne lab director, he and two other German experts concluded: "With a detectability of clenbuterol at this low concentration, positive findings in residue analysis and doping control could be due to the consumption of trace amounts found in [livestock] feed or principally also in the water supply. Threshold concentration amounts for clenbuterol in doping control have, therefore, to be considered in the future." Catlin agreed, saying he thinks the rules are too strict.
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cyclin...e_d&id=5634190

 

[scribe]

"There's no justifiable benefit to be derived from clenbuterol that is worth the risk testing positive for it," says Joe Papp.

"It produces terrible muscle cramps and tremors that would leave you considering suicide if taken during the Tour. I would know: I've tried it and I had to abandon the race. There's nothing redeeming about it even in the off season.

"Doping with clenbuterol is the equivalent of crushing and snorting Adderal as an alternative to cocaine - you're not going to get much of a hit. So why bother? If he did, what an idiot."

I wouldn't go looking for physician's advice from a cyclist turned pill runner.

 

[kurtinsc]

"There's no justifiable benefit to be derived from clenbuterol that is worth the risk testing positive for it," says Joe Papp.

"It produces terrible muscle cramps and tremors that would leave you considering suicide if taken during the Tour. I would know: I've tried it and I had to abandon the race. There's nothing redeeming about it even in the off season.

"Doping with clenbuterol is the equivalent of crushing and snorting Adderal as an alternative to cocaine - you're not going to get much of a hit. So why bother? If he did, what an idiot."

I just don't know about this.

There are a lot of atheletes from various sports who've tested positive for this drug. And while many claim "bad meat" and "tainted supplements"... if a bunch of people are testing positive then people likely ARE taking it for athletic boost. Three cyclists have tested positive this year. A canoist, a judo champ, a hurdler and a MLB player were all among the 70-some atheletes testing positive for the drug this year. In the past, olympic caliber swimmer Jessica Hardy tested positive, and it was one of the drugs that Kirk Radomski confessed to distributing to MLB players from the Mets locker room.

Feels like a bit too much smoke for this to be a useless drug.

 

[Cal_Joe]

Words from the other Joe

As usual, Joe Lindsey's Boulder Report has an excellent summary of the situation...

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/

 

[nicholaaaas]

"There's no justifiable benefit to be derived from clenbuterol that is worth the risk testing positive for it," says Joe Papp.

"It produces terrible muscle cramps and tremors that would leave you considering suicide if taken during the Tour. I would know: I've tried it and I had to abandon the race. There's nothing redeeming about it even in the off season.

"Doping with clenbuterol is the equivalent of crushing and snorting Adderal as an alternative to cocaine - you're not going to get much of a hit. So why bother? If he did, what an idiot."

adderal is basically meth

 

[nicholaaaas]

As usual, Joe Lindsey's Boulder Report has an excellent summary of the situation...

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/

not really... first he chastises people for arm-chair qb'ing the situation. then rhetorically asks a series of questions

 

[warmfuzzies]

How many 2010 TdFers tested positive for clen?

In a 2009 scholarly paper co-authored by Prof. Wilhelm Schaenzer, the Cologne lab director, he and two other German experts concluded: "With a detectability of clenbuterol at this low concentration, positive findings in residue analysis and doping control could be due to the consumption of trace amounts found in [livestock] feed or principally also in the water supply. Threshold concentration amounts for clenbuterol in doping control have, therefore, to be considered in the future." Catlin agreed, saying he thinks the rules are too strict.
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cyclin...e_d&id=5634190

It would be easy to regress positive clen tests with increasing test sensitivity. If the r2 is >.80, and the pos clen tests have increased dramatically, then maybe the test is too sensitive. But if 100 samples are run on the sensitive equipment without a dramatic increase in positives, cycling should continue handing out 1-2 year suspensions.

 

[Cal_Joe]

not really... first he chastises people for arm-chair qb'ing the situation. then rhetorically asks a series of questions

Doh.

Not rhetorical - look up the definition. As far as chastising people for coming up with totally unfounded speculations and theories, remember there is a difference between The Clinic and the real world.

 

[nicholaaaas]

Doh.

Not rhetorical - look up the definition. As far as chastising people for coming up with totally unfounded speculations and theories, remember there is a difference between The Clinic and the real world.

yes... as i've seen most people in here are in some kind of fantasy world where they see fit to be the ultimate judge of men

 

[khardung la]

Wait, you are confusing me.
Are you telling us the blood bags were brought by this Castilla y Leon guy?

I don't get your point. Mine is that by saying that something unusual happened, namely that a friend brought meat from a supermarket he cannot remember eek, Contador thinks he has a good alibi.

He did not think in the fact that as far as I know the last detected case of clembuterol in cattle in Spain is from 1998 (and they test a lot), that he would need to have eaten huge amounts of meat (and he did not say it was liver what he ate), and that the meat in Spain has traceability.

I would go to all the supermarkets and butchers of Irun and trace all the meat back to the farms. Then I would test the cattle in those farms, which is quite easy since it accumulates in the hair.

The problem is that it would be expensive to do that and obviously it would be wasting money since 1) it is highly unlikely that there were clemb in the meat 2) Contador will be saved or condemned after a political struggle, with UCI, RFEC, WADA etc...because the tests for plasticizers and/or clemb analysis in cattle would be faced strong and easy legal defense of the type "the test is not yet approved", "the clemb could hace come from other source, it was just a most-likely guess" Etc....

At the end they could ban him for a positive test. DOT. If they don't do that a political and tailored decission will have weighted more.