Contador positive!!!!!

[bobs nob]

If you don't like doping sports, why did you take up cycling?

The fact that there is such an interest in cycling (and it is growing both in the old world and in the new world according to viewing figures) says enough about the sport.

The sport and the concept is so staggeringly good that doping is a small downside. Why care?

That's why I always defend all riders. I simply don't care about doping. Doping doesn't affect me in any way (only positive, as racing tends to become more interesting).

But please explain me, there's no way you joined cycling in a clean period as there is no such thing I tend to believe that this is the cleanest period in decades, judging by the performances, relative performances of non - dopers and by the way of racing.

sheesh - this post turned into a novel. Sorry.

I am really at a loss to understand what you are saying. I took up cycling to get fit, both physically and mentally and I have no intent of changing anything because of doping.

If the degree of corruption is less now than it has ever been, then this really is just slightly better than pro-wrestling. As far as doping goes, man-or his evolutionary ancestors- have been competing and looking for an edge over their opponents since before we left the swamps, I don't think it's ever going away. Does anyone think Usain Bolt (sic) or Michael Phelps is 100% clean?

EDIT:[/]My concern is with the institutionalizing of the corruption between the riders, team managemnt and governing authorities. Not with individual cheating. I think there are several of you mistakenly reacting to a point I am not trying to make.

I am a little surprised by your tone with me because I think we are more or less on the same page with respect to doping. It happens, just about everyone, if not actually everyone that is at the highest level has a doping or blood alteration regime in place. We may be suffering a communication breakdown. I think my original post a page or two back pretty much broke down where I stand.

When I got into cycling, all I knew was I liked it and had lost weight at it before. It's not like I thought to myself, 'Ya know, the sport hasn't been this clean in years. It's a great time to watch.' The sport has a dark side, as most do, but it seems to be dominated by its dark (corrupt) side. It's part carnival barker, part red light district, part crackhouse/shooting gallery. And unfortunately, for those uninitiated, that is all they know about it. (That and Lance if they are in N America.) Lance got me into it and it seems every Lance fan eventually has to choose between worshiping the myth ( the lie) or leaving Lance behind and becoming a fan of cycling. I picked right.

This is an aside, but: Sometimes I think a few of the people that contribute here are such hardcore cyclists that the thought of someone else participating or watching other sports is akin to being unfaithful and has no place as a fan. Or at least shouldn't be taken as seriously. I am content to not know every little nuance of each race, team or racer. I do have a life, after all. I watched from the Volta ao Algarve and P-N to the end of the TDF and just about everything in between. Then I got this new job and I have hardly been doing anything but working for over 2 months. Go look at how my post frequency died.

I am not putting the bike away. Actually I just got another one (urban commuter) but the time I have to seriously get fit is really a fraction of what it was when I first got involved. And for the record, I don't race, if I could ever get my weight to respectability, I have promised myself to enter a race, at least once. As for my own doping: I occasionally use a little creatine post ride to recover and up my power to weight ratio. We can discuss creatine in a separate thread if anyone cares to. Creatine use is terrible for typical (lightweight) cyclists, it's pretty handy when one is this heavy.

by the time i got done with this it was so long and rambling i doubt anyone wants to read it, but it took too long to just delete it.

 

[roundabout]

I wrote it before and i'll write it again, Contador should try to prove actual contamination by locating the source of the meat instead of arguing about contamination being possible.

 

[krebs303]

Just a thought would not the minimum detection standard for clenbuterol be a de facto standard? they are saying anything under this value is not relevant. your guilt or innocence should not depend on which lab your sample is sent to. exact standards are needed for all labs

 

[The Hitch]

The fact that there is such an interest in cycling (and it is growing both in the old world and in the new world according to viewing figures) says enough about the sport.

Cycling is growing and you have figures for this? Do tell.

 

[flicker]

I wrote it before and i'll write it again, Contador should try to prove actual contamination by locating the source of the meat instead of arguing about contamination being possible.

I hear that cropdusters are spraying clen on every feedlot in spain with cropdusters at this very minute...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I wrote it before and i'll write it again, Contador should try to prove actual contamination by locating the source of the meat instead of arguing about contamination being possible.

Yep. Reminds me of OJ trying to find the "real killers."

 

[hfer07]

sorry to get off subject there alpe. My point is hey what kind of super juice was berto on. I bet it was a bit stronger than tainted steak. He looked really muscled up this year, plus he was having a tough time with andy this year. He had to be on something besides Clen. I heard rumors of the pro-cyclists using experimental un-detectable dope this year. That was at the ToC not to point fingers at any riders in any races.I did hear the drugs were not working so well. Could this be the case with Albertto?

rumors such as....?????
I have a problem understanding how AC is doing an "state of the art doping program" with Clenbuterol.........

 

[bobs nob]

You mean it's a story?!

Yes Bobs ***, I think most of us know that. Meat, whiskey, skin cream. It's a dirty sport with lots of stories. But even the mass-media may be buying this one. And if they'll buy it, the UCI will sell it. They'll just all have to ignore that the outbreak they list happened nearly two decades ago.

Oh, and just don't watch other sports unless you have your blinders fully on tight. And at least you didn't put the NBA on your list, as I'd feel fairly safe betting the house that entire league is to a certain extent rigged.

1st of all, the humor, sarcasm, facetiousness, tongue in cheek has been lost on more than one person. So my bad. I have put some distance between myself and the saga of the corruption of cycling and I take it a little less seriously than many here do.

As for the story getting bought by the media, that's their problem. My post was directed at the people here who are willing to suspend disbelief YET AGAIN. It's like fr----ng Ground Hog's Day. Or as Yogi Berra famously is credited with. It's Deja Vu all over again. Some people are just a cheating spouse's dream come true with their never ending gullibility.

The NBA is RIGGED? Please ejumuhcate me.

 

[flicker]

rumors such as....?????
I have a problem understanding how AC is doing an "state of the art doping program" with Clenbuterol.........

let me give you a hint, top dogs who have been suspected before. it has been that way since i have watching cycling. better living through chemistry.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

let me give you a hint, top dogs who have been suspected before. it has been that way since i have watching cycling. better living through chemistry.

You started watching cycling in 1999 and you're an Armstrong apologist. You should be taking hints, not trying to give them.

 

[pedaling squares]

1st of all, the humor, sarcasm, facetiousness, tongue in cheek has been lost on more than one person. So my bad. I have put some distance between myself and the saga of the corruption of cycling and I take it a little less seriously than many here do.

As for the story getting bought by the media, that's their problem. My post was directed at the people here who are willing to suspend disbelief YET AGAIN. It's like fr----ng Ground Hog's Day. Or as Yogi Berra famously is credited with. It's Deja Vu all over again. Some people are just a cheating spouse's dream come true with their never ending gullibility.

The NBA is RIGGED? Please ejumuhcate me.

Red: Nice quote. Yes, it is funny to see the apologies rolled out here for cheaters while at the same time so many people making fun of riders for their wild excuses.

Blue: I'm with AdH, that league is nearly unwatchable. Forget the crooked ref, I think there's been a system in place for 20+ yrs that ensures the stars shine brightest and the right teams with the right personalities in the right markets make the grade. From Jordan to James, those guys could take 4 steps and run over 3 defenders without getting a foul.

 

[flicker]

You started watching cycling in 1999 and you're an Armstrong apologist. You should be taking hints, not trying to give them.

curiously it was 10 days ago it was announced that doping samples are being saved at this point for yet unbanned or undetected drugs. that is long after the retirement of my sacred Lance. I think Oscar Sevilla Tyler Hamilton and Tom Zirbel would be able to fill us in on the subject of drugs that are untraceable. just a hunch.

 

[bobs nob]

Red: Nice quote. Yes, it is funny to see the apologies rolled out here for cheaters while at the same time so many people making fun of riders for their wild excuses.

Blue: I'm with AdH, that league is nearly unwatchable. Forget the crooked ref, I think there's been a system in place for 20+ yrs that ensures the stars shine brightest and the right teams with the right personalities in the right markets make the grade. From Jordan to James, those guys could take 4 steps and run over 3 defenders without getting a foul.

We're going waaay off topic here, but for all I know it will be another 2 months before I can participate.

Leeway granted to superstars is not rigged. It's done in every sport, including cycling. Nor is the sport being 'unwatchable'- to which I partially agree- the same as rigged. There is a reason why college basketball is watched by so many more, and why so few college stars can succeed in the NBA like they did in college. I will agree that every sport has business reasons for wanting certain teams to be fighting for championships. Lakers/Celtics, the Yankees, any Football team with a superstar quarterback, Tiger Woods, Nadal/Federer, AC/AS.

Anyhoo, thanks for responding, it's making my day off enjoyable.

 

[flicker]

curiously it was 10 days ago it was announced that doping samples are being saved at this point for yet unbanned or undetected drugs. that is long after the retirement of my sacred Lance. I think Oscar Sevilla Tyler Hamilton and Tom Zirbel would be able to fill us in on the subject of drugs that are untraceable. just a hunch.

rarely see doping scandal in pro soccer though. I wonder why?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The NBA is RIGGED? Please ejumuhcate me.

60 minutes with donaghy

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Blue: I'm with AdH, that league is nearly unwatchable. Forget the crooked ref, I think there's been a system in place for 20+ yrs that ensures the stars shine brightest and the right teams with the right personalities in the right markets make the grade. From Jordan to James, those guys could take 4 steps and run over 3 defenders without getting a foul.

Did stop watching it a long time ago*, which i do with pro cycling.

* It was the finals in 90 something. Drexlers Trailblazers lead by 20, Jordan turns the ball over but gets the ball awarded. Trailblazers go on to loose that game and series...

Stern talks like McQuaid. All the same blablabla...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

We're going waaay off topic here, but for all I know it will be another 2 months before I can participate.

Leeway granted to superstars is not rigged. It's done in every sport, including cycling. Nor is the sport being 'unwatchable'- to which I partially agree- the same as rigged. There is a reason why college basketball is watched by so many more, and why so few college stars can succeed in the NBA like they did in college. I will agree that every sport has business reasons for wanting certain teams to be fighting for championships. Lakers/Celtics, the Yankees, any Football team with a superstar quarterback, Tiger Woods, Nadal/Federer, AC/AS.

Anyhoo, thanks for responding, it's making my day off enjoyable.

One more time off topic. I wouldn´t go that far, but bookies and birds have a great influence

 

[bobs nob]

60 minutes with donaghy

So Donaghy runs the NBA? That's pretty weak. I hope that isn't where ADH was going with that comment.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

No, of course not. But very interesting. A good history of things that happen(ed) is the book "how organized crime influences pro football". Pls don´t tell me that´s not NBA. Bookies, birds, sportsbooks and the meyer-lanskys are the same pipo in every 4 major sports.

 

[bobs nob]

One more time off topic. I wouldn´t go that far, but bookies and birds have a great influence

Last time for me too. If anyone wants to they can open a new thread, but I gotta get going.

I really don't think you have much besides innuendo, which every sport has. If by 'rigged', that's the equivalent of 'rigged' for you, then we each have different thresholds of 'rigged'. Is there someone in the NBA or any other sport other than cycling that can write checks to the governing body to get 'de-sanctioned' for a PED? Is there any sport outside of track and field and swimming where PED's have as much influence on the outcome as cycling?

In the other sports, team sports, tennis, golf, etc, you can do just about anything possible to enable a participant/co-conspirator to gain an unfair advantage, but the outcome is still as unlikely as it was at the start. Sports that involve races against a clock are open to much more predictable manipulation.

 

[Tubeless]

Anyone considered why Contador's explanation is that he ate Spanish mean? It's not because Spanish meat is necessarily more likely to be contaminated with clenbuterol than French meat - but it would have weakened his argument against why no one else during the entire Tour de France was found to have the drug in their body. Just about all other cyclists ate French cuisine - only Contador and his un-tested teammates ate Spanish meat. Of course Vino, the only teammate tested that day skipped both lunch and dinner when the meat was served.

How convenient.

 

[roundabout]

We should probably expect Vuelta riders to begin returning positives then.

Surely Contador isn't the only carnivore in the field during GTs.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Last time for me too. If anyone wants to they can open a new thread, but I gotta get going.

I really don't think you have much besides innuendo, which every sport has. If by 'rigged', that's the equivalent of 'rigged' for you, then we each have different thresholds of 'rigged'. Is there someone in the NBA or any other sport other than cycling that can write checks to the governing body to get 'de-sanctioned' for a PED? Is there any sport outside of track and field and swimming where PED's have as much influence on the outcome as cycling?

In the other sports, team sports, tennis, golf, etc, you can do just about anything possible to enable a participant/co-conspirator to gain an unfair advantage, but the outcome is still as unlikely as it was at the start. Sports that involve races against a clock are open to much more predictable manipulation.

Yes there is. Wheter it´s name would be Franzese, Dice Dawson, Rosenbloom or whatever person. I 1st got into that thing when i read Robert Parrish. Up to that time (ca. 8 yrs. ago) i tought multi-player-games were impossible to fix. I was wrong as i was with clean cycling.

For PED´s: Just get into the players union, and you don´t even need checks. The union dictates the League what is tested for and what not.

Don´t know how Montana got off. But one day after it came out he was cocain positive, he threw 5 TD´s vs. Denver for SB-Win.

 

[nicholaaaas]

"An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way."

So than you should be called an Idiot too?

go for it buddy i aint gonna cry about it

 

[nicholaaaas]

I have seen several now and they all show low probability of contamination.

But is does not matter. I agree with what 131313 said about the contaminations being bigger than it is and the cattle producers are also another big powerful industry trying to cover their business.

But my point was not only about that. My point was also about the whole story does not add up:

1- We have Contador telling us that the meat came from Spain, when we had the Chef already telling us in an earlier interview that he bought the beef in the Pau market? So why use Spain as oppose to France. What is the difference? Surely they thought about something.
2- It was convenient to say that Vino did not eat the meat because he was the other rider tested on rest day. What are the chances? 50-50 at least.
3- Eating meat two days in a row for a GT champion in the heat of the battle when he needs his digestion to be working perfectly. What are the chances of that? Read the other thread, "Who eats Steak before a big race", to find out more about this point.
4- From the contamination stories I have read that the majority of them come from eating organs of cattle. Especially liver. So makes it less likely that the piece of meat had those contaminants that will show in the Urine. Maybe the lab was too good and now is catching meat contamination concentrations than other labs were not able to find before. Who knows? Whatever the reason is the chances of this to happen are also very low whether we like it or not.
5- Bad history of cycling doping. Especially when is known that on rest days the top contenders use refills. Also the Astana stories from last year including LA spikes in his profiles. If Contador wants everybody to believe him publish his blood profile data.
6- The concentration of Plasticizers in his urine has not helped him during this scandal at all. And I wish they test other riders for this, but it is impossible because this is not a standard UCI test so they can not use it to punish anybody. I guess it can only be used like in this case, as a support of another theory.

You see. You realize that all these things are too much for me to believe in the Contador Story. That's my conclusion. Maybe I am too skeptical. But it’s the riders fault after so many scandals and positives. Why should it be different now?

like I've said yes he's probably dirty. and since we DO know there is SOME contaminated meat and since the levels in his blood are incredibly low... everything else is just circumstantial evidence. i'm all for catching cheats... but do it right. remember this IS their livelihood.