Contadors recovery

[Laszlo]

I want to say that I was really surprised by Contadors ability to recovery during the final week of the tour. It seemed to defy the logic of the fatigue experienced by all of us on a day following an extreme effort. That he made an extreme effort on the day prior to the final time trial, I expected a less than stellar result. But beating Cancellera ? Does he think he's Floyd ?

I am waiting for news from the lab to be published.

 

[Escarabajo]

I want to say that I was really surprised by Contadors ability to recovery during the final week of the tour. It seemed to defy the logic of the fatigue experienced by all of us on a day following an extreme effort. That he made an extreme effort on the day prior to the final time trial, I expected a less than stellar result. But beating Cancellera ? Does he think he's Floyd ?

I am waiting for news from the lab to be published.

I am as impressed with Andy's recovery. Remember that he was the one making most of the pace on the Grand Bornand mountain stage. Contador was just following most of the time.

Nowadays the recovery meds are a given almost for every tour rider. HGH and testosterone. More HGH than testosterone since it is very difficult to test for. So probably the majority are using it.

BTW: What about the recuperation of a 38 year old man in the last week? If I remember correctly he looked almost “aniquilated” in the Verbier stage, and suddenly recovered in the following mountain stages. I think that is almost as impressive as Contador's performance?

 

[TRDean]

I am as impressed with Andy's recovery. Remember that he was the one making most of the pace on the Grand Bornand mountain stage. Contador was just following most of the time.

Nowadays the recovery meds are a given almost for every tour rider. HGH and testosterone. More HGH than testosterone since it is very difficult to test for. So probably the majority are using it.

BTW: What about the recuperation of a 38 year old man in the last week? If I remember correctly he looked almost “aniquilated” in the Verbier stage, and suddenly recovered in the following mountain stages. I think that is almost as impressive as Contador's performance?

Is this true...the HGH and Testosterone? Where is your info from..I'm not arguing with you...I just want to know? I am also under the impression that HGH is not that difficult to test for...is this wrong?

 

[Escarabajo]

Is this true...the HGH and Testosterone? Where is your info from..I'm not arguing with you...I just want to know? I am also under the impression that HGH is not that difficult to test for...is this wrong?

My sources are from this forum.

1- Testosterone. They used to test for the limit before and not for the synthetic drug. The T/E ratio used to be 6:1. I am not sure what time exactly but WADA lowered it to 4:1 in 2006. After what happened to Landis, riders are more careful about its used because if the testers are targeting you they can always test if the testosterone was artificially consumed, something that was not done before. Here is a CN link:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2006/testosterone_testing

2- HGH: In this forum is has been written numerous times about the difficulty to test for the HGH because of its half life duration in the body. Some people say is only hours before it disappears. Since this one is more difficult to detect the riders have pretty much used this med a lot more than testosterone, which pretty much serves the same purpose. On the sources I am going to have to refer you to Elapid and Alpe d'Huez. They are very knowledgeable on this topic.

 

[Laszlo]

the Shlecks faltered somewhat in the itt, as expected. I don't think anyone expected AC to beat Fabian.

 

[Bronstein]

the Shlecks faltered somewhat in the itt, as expected. I don't think anyone expected AC to beat Fabian.

Andy rode a good TT by his standards. Frank probably faltered.

 

[Escarabajo]

the Shlecks faltered somewhat in the itt, as expected. I don't think anyone expected AC to beat Fabian.

Andy's TT was excellent.

As for Alberto, I had him very close to Cancellara. Mi opinion does not mean anything now. But in Alberto's defense, he has been a great TT in the last 1.5 years. Here are some of his results:


PARIS-NICE
Result after stage 1

Total distance covered: 9.3 km

Standing Rider Rider number bib Team Time Gaps
1. CONTADOR Alberto 51 ASTANA 11' 05"
2. WIGGINS Bradley 38 GARMIN - SLIPSTREAM 11' 12" + 00' 07"
3. SANCHEZ Luis-Leon 68 CAISSE D’EPARGNE 11' 14" + 00' 09"
4. MARTIN Tony 93 TEAM COLUMBIA - HIGH ROAD 11' 16" + 00' 11"
5. MILLAR David 31 GARMIN - SLIPSTREAM 11' 19" + 00' 14"
6. POSTHUMA Joost 26 RABOBANK 11' 23" + 00' 18"
7. CHAVANEL Sylvain 41 QUICK STEP 11' 24" + 00' 19"
8. COLOM Antonio 141 TEAM KATUSHA 11' 24" + 00' 19"
9. KARPETS Vladimir 145 TEAM KATUSHA 11' 26" + 00' 21"
10. PAURIOL Rémi 117 COFIDIS LE CREDIT EN LIGNE 11' 27" + 00' 22"


TOUR OF SPAIN

5thstageCiudad Real - Ciudad Real (I.T.T.)Wednesday - September 3rd42,5KmIndividual Points Climber Teams
Individual StandingPos Dor. Name Nac. Team Time


1º 33 LEIPHEIMER, Levi USA AST 50:57
2º 61 CHAVANEL, Sylvain FRA COF a 12
3º 136 QUINZIATO, Manuel ITA LIQ a 33
4º 31 CONTADOR, Alberto ESP AST a 49
5º 51 VALVERDE, Alejandro ESP GCE a 59
6º 4 VAN GOOLEN, Jurgen BEL CSC a 1:06
7º 8 BLAUDZUN, Michael DEN CSC a 1:07
8º 179 VELITS, Martin SVK MRM a 1:15
9º 162 CORNU, Dominique BEL SIL a 1:19
10º 104 LANG, Sebastian GER GST a 1:19
11º 107 SCHUMACHER, Stefan GER GST a 1:21
12º 32 KLÖDEN, Andreas GER AST a 1:24


GIRO D'ITALIA
Results
1 Marzio Bruseghin (Ita) Lampre 56.41 (41.075 km/h)
2 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 0.08
3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 0.20
4 Marco Pinotti (Ita) Team High Road 0.36
5 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) LPR Brakes 0.44
6 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 0.46
7 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas 0.54
8 Gustav Erik Larsson (Swe) Team CSC 0.59
9 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana 1.01
10 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni-Androni Giocattoli 1.02
11 Gabriele Bosisio (Ita) LPR Brakes
12 Giovanni Visconti (Ita) Quick Step 1.05
13 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Silence - Lotto 1.18
14 Evgeny Petrov (Rus) Tinkoff Credit Systems 1.31
15 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Slipstream Chipotle Presented By H30 1.38

SPANISH CHAMPIONSHIPS

NAT.CH. SPAIN ITT

Country: Spain
Datum: 26/6/2009
Category: CN


1 Alberto Contador Velasco (esp) Astana
2 Luis Leon Sanchez Gil (esp) Caisse d`Epargne
3 Ruben Plaza Molina (esp) Liberty Seguros
4 Francisco Mancebo Perez (esp) Rock Racing
5 Jose Ivan Gutierrez Palacios (esp) Caisse d`Epargne
6 Nicolas Jonathan Castroviejo (esp) Orbea - Oreka SDA
7 Carlos Barredo Llamazales (esp) Quick Step
8 Eloy Teruel Rovira (esp) Murcia - Contentpolis - Ampo
9 Xavier Tondo Volpini (esp) Andalucia - Cajasur
10 Arkaitz Duran Aroca (esp) Fuji - Servetto


VUELTA AL PAIS VASCO
Contador also won last year's final TT. The Final GC Podium.
Big Photos from Stage 6 — colin flockton

Stage 6 results
1. Alberto Contador (Spanje/Astana) 31:59
2. Antonio Colom (Spanje/Katusha) + :22
3. Samuel Sanchez (Spanje/Euskaltel-Euskadi) + :45
4. Michael Rogers (Australië/Team Columbia-Highroad) + :09
5. Luis Leon Sanchez (Spanje/Caisse d'Epargne) + 1:13
6. Marco Pinotti (Italië/Team Columbia-Highroad) + 1:18
7. Christian Vandevelde (Amerika/Garmin-Slipstream) + 1:22
8. Cadel Evans (Australië/Silence-Lotto) + 1:25
9. Robert Gesink (Nederland/Rabobank) st
10. Damiano Cunego (Italië/Lampre) + 1:26


If your purpose is to talk about doping, then say it straight. In that case we have to talk about the top five as well. Not just Contador. But if your purpose is to raise speculation based on his TT. Then you need to watch other bike races other than the Tour de France.

 

[Laszlo]

If your purpose is to talk about doping, then say it straight. In that case we have to talk about the top five as well. Not just Contador. But if your purpose is to raise speculation based on his TT. Then you need to watch other bike races other than the Tour de France.

I don't believe I infered anything less than my suspicion that AC doped. Specifically, I might suppose the auto-whatever blood re-infusion technique would account for his ability to race the following day with the apparent freshness a rose might have. But you are correct, I should take into account his performance in other races as well- I'm too busy to throughly research the matter for myself, so I felt it would be useful to post my opinion and gain some valuable insight from other members of the forum here. Thank you.

 

[palmerq]

Well contador wasn´t doing a huge amount the day before the time trial he followed schleck and launched half an attack( you might have heard about it :S) and thenn did nothing again untill the end where he just made sure they didn´t get away. I am surprised by his win in the tt, but I think cancellara has never won a long time trial in the tour de france(although I think he was 2nd to schumacher twice), and the last time trial in the tour always has a lot to do with who has anything left, even though cancellara is not going for teh overall he was still doing a lot for the rest of the team, and when you´re fabians size you´re always going to suffer a lot going over the mountains. Alberto has always been quite good at time trialing, and he was on ONCE(i think) and they were big on the team time trial, infact that´ś not good for contador ...

Therefore I think for the final week time trial it´ś not so strange for contador to win it(it had a hill in it aswell), and if they both were in top condition and went for the time trial wc, olympics or the prolouge then cancellara beats him always, and if contador starts beating him then, it is time to be suspicous.

 

[eigenvalu2]

Colom

re: contadors time trailing, didnt colom get busted for EPO? yet contador beat him? perhaps colom is a sh*te tt man and epo brought him to 2nd?

these comparisons seem potentially moot thou, cuz if contie is dirty all these results could be the result of jacked behavior

not saying he is mind you, just not sure this type of comparison proves anything

 

[Escarabajo]

I don't believe I infered anything less than my suspicion that AC doped. Specifically, I might suppose the auto-whatever blood re-infusion technique would account for his ability to race the following day with the apparent freshness a rose might have. But you are correct, I should take into account his performance in other races as well- I'm too busy to throughly research the matter for myself, so I felt it would be useful to post my opinion and gain some valuable insight from other members of the forum here. Thank you.

No problem.

The blood transfusion is for the daily performance. For the recuperation from day to day they take HGH and maybe some other stuff that I don't know. You might have to wait for other members to weight in on this topic.

IMO, not only him but the other top 10 on GC will rise a flag on performance. But I am trying very hard to give some of them (Not Astana, Saxo Bank or Liquigas) the benefit of the doubt.

Let me look for a link from an article that I found very interesting when I first joined the Forum. It is about the purpose of each doping product.

Here it is: http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html

 

[BigBoat]

Contra-doper was HEAVILY jacked for that final week. OF COURSE he used HGH & was jacked at 57-59% with blood doping.

There are plenty of other tricks and secrets that we dont know about, stuff that Dr. Ferrari who was documented to having worked with Astana and Vino in 2007; stuff that Lance knows about and now Contradoper too.

 

[red_explosions]

Contra-doper was HEAVILY jacked for that final week. OF COURSE he used HGH & was jacked at 57-59% with blood doping.

There are plenty of other tricks and secrets that we dont know about, stuff that Dr. Ferrari who was documented to having worked with Astana and Vino in 2007; stuff that Lance knows about and now Contradoper too.

Do you reckon Contadope was boosted at near 60% on the start line? Assuming he gets tested pretty much right after the stage finish, that's a risky game to play. No IV saline during the stage, so he's gotta rely on drinking alone to dilute his crit. He's gotta be diluting prior to the start line, right?

 

[eigenvalu2]

salt

keep in mind the name "bigboat" refers to the size ship needed to carry the requisite amount of salt that should be applied to such writings

 

[the big ring]

...
As for Alberto, I had him very close to Cancellara. Mi opinion does not mean anything now. But in Alberto's defense, he has been a great TT in the last 1.5 years. Here are some of his results:

...

Interesting results - I would be further interested in comparing his TT performance in 2009 with TT results at the end of the second week of a GT where he is either in the lead or going for the GC podium. From the last 3 (2007-2009) years, so we can gauge his progression. As he started in 2002, 2007+ results should be fairly linear, assuming he raced and trained well, which is what pros tend to do.

 

[BigBoat]

Do you reckon Contadope was boosted at near 60% on the start line? Assuming he gets tested pretty much right after the stage finish, that's a risky game to play. No IV saline during the stage, so he's gotta rely on drinking alone to dilute his crit. He's gotta be diluting prior to the start line, right?

The post stage blood values arnt taken for several hours if taken at all. Usually they are not.

Yes, Human albumin/ IV Saline in the morning can get him down from 55% to his "norm" of 48%. And anyways, they can blood dope right before the stages too. Those red cells will start working right away or atleast some of them will. Think of trauma victims, gun shot victims, etc.

Think of this >>> Before blood testing contador one day the UCI spent an entire hour having coffee with the Astana team officials. Thats a long time, seriously.

Contador is an IDIOT for jacking that heavily, beatng Cancellara in a flat TT! And then attacking when his did not need to, dumping Kloden from the podium board and nearly Lance as well. Contador held back BIG TIME in the mountains though on other stages. Lance is PO'd and will likely come back next year with a new team and new plan of attack. I hate Lance and I hope Lemond figures out a way to take him down.

 

[Escarabajo]

... I hate Lance and I hope Lemond figures out a way to take him down.

did you change your mind already?

 

[lean mean &green]

i'm mostly in agreement with escabarajo

autologous (a specimen collected from one's self) blood doping and hgh, IMO are the bread and butter of the pro peleton right now.

both are very effective and difficult or impossible to detect right now. this loophole is closing but not nearly fast enough.

the TT performance does not make me any more suspicious than I already am.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Contador is an IDIOT for jacking that heavily, beatng Cancellara in a flat TT!

Saw these kinds of comments straight after race and had a geek analysis episode.

Lined up TDF 08 & 09 ITT times for riders who did both, adjusted for race length, adjusted for Cancellara = time 0....looks like Cance was an average of 25s further ahead of the rest of the field in 2008.....so I adjusted accordingly.

Then I cross checked the validity of this adjustment...of the 7 riders that finished within 5 places of their position last year (top 60 only), the mean time difference between ITTs for 08 & 09 is 0.4" ..........so adjustment for Cance at 25" down in 09 seems valid. (For fellow geeks: sample standard deviation = 15s. For fellow TRUE geeks, I cut off the lower places because, unsurprisingly, the distribution for longer 08 race had a fatter tail)

Not saying AC isn't jacked, just saying data suggests Cance was not on top form. It's probably more reasonable to debate whether AC 22" behind Cance is normal for him (whatever that means), not 3" up.

Also, looked at Andy Shlecks time, by my calc he improved 41s on last years ITT - of the 11 TDF 08 young riders who were in this TDF ITT - Schleck's is the 2nd SMALLEST improvement, mean was 1'34".

Not saying he's not jacked either - but data SUGGESTS (not proves) minimal change in pharmaceutical regime.

...Astarloza had a good ITT for him compared with last year...

 

[biker77]

I am amazed how fast the top riders rode ventoux. The first 5km appeared to take about 6 minutes (no, not an actual statement of fact, but the km disappeared quite rapidly). I think they were told to slow down, as ventoux in 15 minutes would have raised quite a few flags.

 

[Laszlo]

Saw these kinds of comments straight after race and had a geek analysis episode.

Lined up TDF 08 & 09 ITT times for riders who did both, adjusted for race length, adjusted for Cancellara = time 0....looks like Cance was an average of 25s further ahead of the rest of the field in 2008.....so I adjusted accordingly.

...

wow. if that data was given in a graph it could be part of a very interesting article here. I hope the eds are paying attention.

 

[red_explosions]

The post stage blood values arnt taken for several hours if taken at all. Usually they are not.

Yes, Human albumin/ IV Saline in the morning can get him down from 55% to his "norm" of 48%. And anyways, they can blood dope right before the stages too. Those red cells will start working right away or atleast some of them will. Think of trauma victims, gun shot victims, etc.

Think of this >>> Before blood testing contador one day the UCI spent an entire hour having coffee with the Astana team officials. Thats a long time, seriously.

Contador is an IDIOT for jacking that heavily, beatng Cancellara in a flat TT! And then attacking when his did not need to, dumping Kloden from the podium board and nearly Lance as well. Contador held back BIG TIME in the mountains though on other stages. Lance is PO'd and will likely come back next year with a new team and new plan of attack. I hate Lance and I hope Lemond figures out a way to take him down.

Is that for real that they don't test for several hours following a stage finish? If that's true it's just crazy. Why not just cart them off immediately post stage for controls? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a rider is most vulnerable to being busted right at the finish. If he's boosted ^50% at the start in order to make max gains during the stage, then he's likely to still be ^50% after the stage finish, as there is little/no opportunity to dilute during the stage. Waiting a couple hours is just dumb. You can easily take a few bags of IV saline/colloids during that time.

 

[BroDeal]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a rider is most vulnerable to being busted right at the finish.

You are assuming that the UCI actually wants to catch people. There were calls for almost ten years for the UCI to do longitudinal testing like the French. That was another thing that did not take a genius.

 

[red_explosions]

You are assuming that the UCI actually wants to catch people. There were calls for almost ten years for the UCI to do longitudinal testing like the French. That was another thing that did not take a genius.

Forgive my ignorance but what's longitudinal testing?

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

wow. if that data was given in a graph it could be part of a very interesting article here. I hope the eds are paying attention.

Thanks, not that easy to present graphically, but if anyone else seems interested I might have a go at some kind of before/after histogram thingy.