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Cookson is worse for cycling than McQuaid

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Apr 2, 2013
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The Hitch said:
Crowds were good. Seemed to be much more pro cycling than pro wiggins or pro sky like at the Olympics.
Think they were largely pro spectacle, Brits are happy for any excuse to stand in a field with some sunshine...
 
Aug 13, 2009
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sniper said:
i don't think a comparison with mcquaid is going to be very fruitful.
but isn't your intelligence the slightest bit insulted when you see sky and uci link up like that and then hear cookson talk the talk as if nothing happened?
something needs to be said.
Pretending Cookson is worse then McQuaid insures people will tune out. Plenty of informed observers have been able to address the topic without resorting to irrational hyperbole.
 
The Hitch said:
Crowds were good. Seemed to be much more pro cycling than pro wiggins or pro sky like at the Olympics.
Have to agree with you Hitch. It was an amazing advert for cycling. Nothing to do with Sky/Cookson. Although I'm surprised by the amount of advertising etc. for Sky Rides and the like in the UK. Appears they positioned the advertisements at bus stops to get people off public transport onto bikes.

Crowds were just as big in 2007 (Under McQuaid). For a country where it rains all the time they sure do love their bikes! Maybe because the public transport system is so sh1te! :cool:

I'd also say part of TFL (Transport for London) planning was to ease congestion by building bike lanes (in light blue) all through London. The tube network is overly congested and getting people on to bikes is a good strategy. The ride to work scheme with tax break makes good sense.
 
Race Radio said:
Pretending Cookson is worse then McQuaid insures people will tune out. Plenty of informed observers have been able to address the topic without resorting to irrational hyperbole.
"Pretending" is a loaded term here. Seems to be his honest opinion. I don't think many agree with the opinion but it seems genuinely held to me.
 
Feb 10, 2010
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The Principal Sheep said:
Think they were largely pro spectacle, Brits are happy for any excuse to stand in a field with some sunshine...
This is what the UCI and ASO want out of this. More viewers, more justification for spending public money bringing WT-level events to the UK. And everything is going great.

As much as it is very good to see more people on bikes, I don't know that a competitive cycling show is driving ordinary bicycle use.
 
Jan 24, 2014
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the sceptic said:
It needs to be said.

These tour stages in britain confirms to me that there is a huge cycling boom going on there. Every cat 4 climb looking like alpe d'huez.. its too much.

And as with any religion, the people need to believe. A sky positive would mean the british cycling empire goes down the drain, so Im sure Cookson will do everything in his power to prevent that.

And before people start talking about change. What change? Everything is the same as it has always been.
Of course you do realize that most of those people on the climbs in Britain were brain-washed by Sky's subliminal messaging on their TV channels. Cookson is just part of this evil Murdoch Empire and the whole three days TDF in the UK were a trial run for the future. On the back of this recent TDF there will be another few days in the UK for the TDF in the coming years when even more people will be out drinkng the cool-aid. The brainwashed masses - almost zombie-like - will walk on London and take over the country for the Murdoch Empire! We are so lucky that we have in the clinic and small group of heroic evidence-loving, unbiased, clear thinking and rational warriors to help stem this evil tide.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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Since this thread is very similar to the other a poll to the original question/fact stated could be a good idea?
 
Jul 21, 2012
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ShiftingBalance said:
Of course you do realize that most of those people on the climbs in Britain were brain-washed by Sky's subliminal messaging on their TV channels. Cookson is just part of this evil Murdoch Empire and the whole three days TDF in the UK were a trial run for the future. On the back of this recent TDF there will be another few days in the UK for the TDF in the coming years when even more people will be out drinkng the cool-aid. The brainwashed masses - almost zombie-like - will walk on London and take over the country for the Murdoch Empire! We are so lucky that we have in the clinic and small group of heroic evidence-loving, unbiased, clear thinking and rational warriors to help stem this evil tide.
welcome back Martin.
 
Jan 30, 2014
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Race Radio said:
Pretending Cookson is worse then McQuaid insures people will tune out. Plenty of informed observers have been able to address the topic without resorting to irrational hyperbole.
For me the problem with Cookson is that by 2013 even a casual cycling fan now knew that under McQuaid/Verbruggen the UCI had been corrupt for years but as soon as Cookson was elected (in the UK at least) we were back to "the cleanest peloton ever" "more enlightened age" mantra with fewer and fewer dissenting voices.
Meanwhile Zorzoli is handing out TUEs, the UCI still has the ability to hide positive doping tests if it sees fit and outside of the clinic nobody seems too worried.
If McQuaid was president now I believe he would be held to account much more than Cookson is being now but it seems that for most people its enough that Cookson isn't McQuaid
 
May 10, 2011
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To be fair to Cookson, he deserves a chance. He hasn't had enough time to really prove himself yet. They did already say they're going to install a new TUE policy as well.

The fact is, most of us have no clue what was really going on behind the scenes and who everyone is that was involved. To expect Cookson to be able to come in and clean out all the bugs of a super infested house straight away is a tall order. It'll take some time.

I'm not saying the conspiracy theories aren't valid and that I don't agree with some of them. But I'm not ready to throw Cookson out just yet.
 
Aug 2, 2012
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worse

the sceptic said:
It needs to be said.

And before people start talking about change. What change? Everything is the same as it has always been.

if everything is the same how could things be suddenly worse?

..........my limited no. of brain cells are confused

Mark L
 
Feb 28, 2010
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The Principal Sheep said:
Think they were largely pro spectacle, Brits are happy for any excuse to stand in a field with some sunshine...
There was a lot of us today standing in rain! But yes Brits do like a spectacle.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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If people are waiting for a cycling boss that will sacrifice commercial growth (ie money) to get serious about combating doping.. that person will never arrive.

Cycling is pretty big in the Uk now. A Froome or Wiggins doping scandal would be a total disaster for British cycling, and a short to medium term disaster for cycling as a whole (probably long term as well tbh. I don't think being serious about combating doping is a winning strategy, just look at all the vastly more popular sports who never made the commercial mistake of making a big deal out of doping).

Cookson identified Germany as a market he wants cycling to rediscover. I wonder whether their sprinters will do the trick or whether they need to pick some mediocre German GC rider and turn him into Froome to induce a boom.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Col Okey said:

If McQuaid was president now I believe he would be held to account much more than Cookson is being now but it seems that for most people its enough that Cookson isn't McQuaid
good point.

as the OP pointed out, it's pretty friggin clear that selling cycling is cookson's nr1 priority.
it's not exaggerated to say that this priority is 100% dependent on sky being - and remaining - clean.
and we're not even talking about oliver yet.
 
Jul 10, 2012
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SeriousSam said:
If people are waiting for a cycling boss that will sacrifice commercial growth (ie money) to get serious about combating doping.. that person will never arrive.

Cycling is pretty big in the Uk now. A Froome or Wiggins doping scandal would be a total disaster for British cycling, and a short to medium term disaster for cycling as a whole (probably long term as well tbh. I don't think being serious about combating doping is a winning strategy, just look at all the vastly more popular sports who never made the commercial mistake of making a big deal out of doping).

Cookson identified Germany as a market he wants cycling to rediscover. I wonder whether their sprinters will do the trick or whether they need to pick some mediocre German GC rider and turn him into Froome to induce a boom.
To quote the fictional Dr Ian Malcolm;

"The kind of control you're talking about, just isn't possible !"
The previous two UCI heads both tried to do exactly what your proposing Cookson will try to do, & I agree, that's what I think he'll, try, to do.

And both previous UCI Bosses failed, & their failures damn near killed the sport, because while they turned a blind eye to the doping, the teams indulged in an Arms race of doping, & this gave us Festina, in Verbruggens reign, & then Lance in McQuaids.

The UCI can only control so much, they can't stop random coppers from finding ampules of dope in team cars, or WADA from doing their job !
 
May 26, 2010
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keeponrollin said:
To quote the fictional Dr Ian Malcolm;



The previous two UCI heads both tried to do exactly what your proposing Cookson will try to do, & I agree, that's what I think he'll, try, to do.

And both previous UCI Bosses failed, & their failures damn near killed the sport, because while they turned a blind eye to the doping, the teams indulged in an Arms race of doping, & this gave us Festina, in Verbruggens reign, & then Lance in McQuaids.

The UCI can only control so much, they can't stop random coppers from finding ampules of dope in team cars, or WADA from doing their job !

Hein and Pat were sloppy. Cookson is determined not to make mistakes of the past, which does not mean he is interested in cleaning up the sport, just better management to avoid a doping arms race to the bottom, but Froome appears to be following a different script....maybe next years French golden goose will say all the right things.
 
SeriousSam said:
Cycling is pretty big in the Uk now. A Froome or Wiggins doping scandal would be a total disaster for British cycling, and a short to medium term disaster for cycling as a whole (probably long term as well tbh.
As you well know, the media (incl. the clinic) can't resist a carpet bombing campaign. There will be collateral damage.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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go crazy said:
I think it's hilarious how Britain plays second fiddle to America in everything, including their own doped up superhero rider. Thanks to Wiggins and Froome, Britain is in the same early stages as American fans were with Armstrong when he started winning. So now the roadside is filled with noob cycling fans who have no idea how to conduct themselves on the road, and a blissfully naive public who believe their disease-stricken pack filling rider magically turned himself into the world's greatest rider through "marginal gains". It's almost a complete carbon copy of the Armstrong saga, but with a Brit in charge of the UCI...........

..............So yes, I don't see the UCI uncovering any wrongdoings with Sky. The TUE thing was already bad enough, imagine if it was something more shady.
Some excellent posts early on - It is just like a religion and they need the baubles, incense and icons to genuflect to.

I think I am going to jump sideways a couple of steps. Froome, Brailsford and Sutton may well have as little emotional intelligence as Lance and Johan, but they watched a learnt. No one that could sell them down the river is going to be frozen out like Floyd was. With UK Lottery sport's expansion of cycling there are just a shed load of nice parking places for minor players with a grudge. A cushy little number that involves about 25 hours work per week and an expenses form, is going to keep a lot of ex-worker bees quiet.

As others point out, Cookson's presence will keep a lot of the flack well away from the target. I doubt that there is half the willpower in the upper reaches of UK Sport to encourage any sort of analysis of any of the stars, that there was in the USA.

No, this will need an external rival to bring the house down. Now it may be that the rival will not show. But how about ~Makarov or a Russian team-owner tycoon, having his team slighted in some way and then deciding to sort out Sky. A few hired thugs could bribe/intimidate a few worker-bees to tell all and get evidence of dodgy goings on and hey presto - Cookson is beholden. I wouldn't like to be in Cookson's shoes if that happens. He won't let it collapse on his watch, so look out for him playing for time and a very unusual and rapid departure. "Was all going fine whilst I wuz there - must be the new guy ! "
 
SeriousSam said:
If people are waiting for a cycling boss that will sacrifice commercial growth (ie money) to get serious about combating doping.. that person will never arrive.

Cycling is pretty big in the Uk now.
I don't think it is. Sure its much bigger than it was last time the Tour was in the UK in terms of absolute number of fans, people willing to cheer on a race, or ride bikes, but in the broader scheme of things, any gains have been either negligible or at the least incorrectly ignored by the mass media, which does not rank cycling any higher on its list of sports than it did 10 years ago.

The Tour de France is not shown on any of the major channels, (the one that has rights on it continues to dump it onto a secondary channel it owns). Outside of the Tour all cycling requires a subscription. Compare this to several European countries where all gts are broadcast on the main channels. It doesn't really get any attention from newspapers (an extra article or two a month maybe which will be on Team Sky).
From my experience talking to people who went to watch the thing today, few had the slightest clue about cycling. That's not necesarily different from other capital cities to be fair, the sport is more popular in the country and there I don't know what the attitude was. But as far as the media goes its a minor sport still. They put more effort into building up the celebrities - wiggins cav froome, than the actual sport.
 
The Hitch said:
I don't think it is. Sure its much bigger than it was last time the Tour was in the UK in terms of absolute number of fans, people willing to cheer on a race, or ride bikes, but in the broader scheme of things, any gains have been either negligible or at the least incorrectly ignored by the mass media, which does not rank cycling any higher on its list of sports than it did 10 years ago.

The Tour de France is not shown on any of the major channels, (the one that has rights on it continues to dump it onto a secondary channel it owns). Outside of the Tour all cycling requires a subscription. Compare this to several European countries where all gts are broadcast on the main channels. It doesn't really get any attention from newspapers (an extra article or two a month maybe which will be on Team Sky).
From my experience talking to people who went to watch the thing today, few had the slightest clue about cycling. That's not necesarily different from other capital cities to be fair, the sport is more popular in the country and there I don't know what the attitude was. But as far as the media goes its a minor sport still. They put more effort into building up the celebrities - wiggins cav froome, than the actual sport.
The Vuelta and Giro have been on ITV4 though, dependent of Wiggo's involvement.
 
The Hitch said:
From my experience talking to people who went to watch the thing today, few had the slightest clue about cycling. That's not necesarily different from other capital cities to be fair, the sport is more popular in the country and there I don't know what the attitude was. But as far as the media goes its a minor sport still. They put more effort into building up the celebrities - wiggins cav froome, than the actual sport.
They need to get rid of Froome & make Thomas the next big thing. He's way more marketable than the Dawg. If they want to make cycling mainstream then they need to get these lads on the program and winning GTs. The Dawg will never cut it. He's just a big tall, lanky dork.

Brailsford's talking smack again about a French winner. He's just trying to pacify the press before they land in France this evening. He has to pacify Porte along with the fact all the rider think Kerrison is a knob.
 
Feb 10, 2010
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SeriousSam said:
Cycling is pretty big in the Uk now. A Froome or Wiggins doping scandal would be a total disaster for British cycling, and a short to medium term disaster for cycling as a whole (probably long term as well tbh.
Meh. Popularity rises and falls. People forgot Festina and the scandals that followed.

SeriousSam said:
I don't think being serious about combating doping is a winning strategy, just look at all the vastly more popular sports who never made the commercial mistake of making a big deal out of doping).
The UCI agrees!

I'd argue if they were at least consistent and relatively clear about enforcing doping athletes would operate within those limits. (AKA bio-passport) After the first couple of rounds of star athletes getting popped the PR would turn to their advantage. Instead, nothing has changed and elite athletes have every incentive to test the system to see if they get the Contador treatment or the Landis treatment.
 

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