Cookson is worse for cycling than McQuaid

[thehog]

You must have missed the bit when Lance got a lifetime ban.......rather than a handful of years....... and also pretty much every judicial system where a guilty plea attracts a different sentence to a denial.......besides I'm surprised you want to read more of JTLs horsedung about dehydration.

Mark L

Lance got a lifetime ban because Landis spoke up not for anything the UCi did. And even after the "then" UCI president doing a Cookson and telling Landis to say nothing.

Let's JTL speak. We might save ourselves another Lance episode.

If the Dawg had been doping and getting letters, we should know. Like his TUE, which was thankfully leaked much to Cookson's ire.

 

[ebandit]

Lance got a lifetime ban not because of Landis but because of Lance.......Tygart was pretty clear that it was the result of failing to engage with the process at any point.....if Cookson wanted to issue veiled threats to JTL not to break the Omerta......do you not think he'd find a slightly more private conduit than an interview with a cycling journalist?.......?????....... Sometimes you guys are amazing

Mark L

 

[thehog]

I

Lance got a lifetime ban not because of Landis but because of Lance.......Tygart was pretty clear that it was the result of failing to engage with the process at any point.....if Cookson wanted to issue veiled threats to JTL not to break the Omerta......do you not think he'd find a slightly more private conduit than an interview with a cycling journalist?.......?????....... Sometimes you guys are amazing

Mark L

Lance was "ensnared" by Tygart because of Landis speaking. Prior to that USADA had jack on Lance. Armstrong won 7 Tours, retired, came back, finished 3rd and USADA were powerless to do anything.

The process only begun because of Floyd. So with history as our guide let's not make the same mistakes..... let JTL speak.

No cover ups. Not again, as JTL was riding for British Cycling when he was doping. Let's hear what he has to say without Cookson threatening him.

 

[TheSpud]

Or alternatively back on planet earth.....if you are completely unrepentant and seek to blame the system that caught you.....don't expect a smooth return

Mark L

Indeed. But of course that doesn't fit with the conspiracy theories that The Clinic regulars seem to live their lives by ...

 

[the sceptic]

Indeed. But of course that doesn't fit with the conspiracy theories that The Clinic regulars seem to live their lives by ...

Ball, not man Martin.

There is no conspiracy here. Cookson favors british cycling and will do everything in his power to protect it. If JTL knows something that could bring down others do you think Cookson would let him do it? Not a chance Martin.
So JTL is being told that if he wants a future in cycling he better keep his mouth shut.

 

[ebandit]

I

Lance was "ensnared" by Tygart because of Landis speaking. Prior to that USADA had jack on Lance. Armstrong won 7 Tours, retired, came back, finished 3rd and USADA were powerless to do anything.

The process only begun because of Floyd. So with history as our guide let's not make the same mistakes..... let JTL speak.

No cover ups. Not again, as JTL was riding for British Cycling when he was doping. Let's hear what he has to say without Cookson threatening him.

The false concern does not become you Hoggie......we both know that Tygart needed Landis......but we also both know that if Lance had engaged with the Landis-initiated Usada case he would have got a lesser ban.....Tygart was clear about that......you are being deliberstely disingenuous in trying to portray JTL as some kind of Landis figure to try and make it fit your horsedung narrative about JTL's positive being a Sky positive

Mark L

 

[ebandit]

Ball, not man Martin.

There is no conspiracy here. Cookson favors british cycling and will do everything in his power to protect it. If JTL knows something that could bring down others do you think Cookson would let him do it? Not a chance Martin.
So JTL is being told that if he wants a future in cycling he better keep his mouth shut.

Uh duh.....JTL got busted by the very anti-doping system that you and others are constantly bleating is controlled by the UCI.........at least try to think things through before you post

Mark L

 

[the sceptic]

Uh duh.....JTL got busted by the very anti-doping system that you and others are constantly bleating is controlled by the UCI.........at least try to think things through before you post

Mark L

Not sure what you are saying Mark, sorry.

And try not to get personal. I doesnt reflect well on you.

 

[ebandit]

I'm pointing out that your theory is self-contradictory..
...as you very well know despite your attempt to play dumb

Mark L

 

[thehog]

The false concern does not become you Hoggie......we both know that Tygart needed Landis......but we also both know that if Lance had engaged with the Landis-initiated Usada case he would have got a lesser ban.....Tygart was clear about that......you are being deliberstely disingenuous in trying to portray JTL as some kind of Landis figure to try and make it fit your horsedung narrative about JTL's positive being a Sky positive

Mark L

What we do know; Chris Froome was doping at Romandie on 40mg of Predisone a day. And smashing the field. It was only through the selfless act of someone unknown that we found out.

If JTL has more information with regards to doping at Sky/British Cycling then we need to hear it no matter now hurtful that information might be.

We don't need Cookson and his omertà to shut things down. That's what McQuaid did. And what the Lance fans did to Hamilton/Landis. Don't be like them Mark L.

Let JTL speak.

 

[ebandit]

Dear god, your overwrought bad faith concern is vomit-inducing Hoggie.........so many holes in your conspiracy theory......as well as the blatant contradiction already pointed out.......JTL got busted through sheer stupidity after a run of dope fuelled success that got him a Sky contract......his success stopped as soon as he joined Sky.....no doping.

I'm afraid Hoggie you are trying to make the evidence fit a conclusion you thought up long ago ......it won't work but I suppose in the short term it is st least mildly diverting......
Occams razor would suggest us to take the path of fewest assumptions..... That would be the one that says that anti-doping is not difficult to cheat.......Cookson knows this......but can never say it for pretty apparent reasons.

Mark L

 

[TheSpud]

Not sure what you are saying Mark, sorry.

And try not to get personal. I doesnt reflect well on you.

What he means is that why would the UCI (run by Cookson) bust a British rider on a British team (that is heavily connected to British Cycling that Cookson was involved with previously) that they are (supposedly) protecting?

Why, just why? It doesnt make sense. That would be like me grassing up my best mates wife for cheating on him when she was cheating with me.

 

[TailWindHome]

Speak up JTL.

Start with a confession. Tell everyone what you did, how you did it and who helped you. Spare no punches and fear no man. Speak the truth.

Cookson's right. Leave this nonsense of Mickey Mouse courts and never testing positive behind you. Don't wallow in self pity, railing against the system that caught you. Speak up and protect the next guy.

You spent a year with Sky and longer within British Cycling. If you know of doping within the team or organisation speak up. Speak clearly, speak bravely and tell the truth.

We're waiting.

 

[thehog]

Dear god, your overwrought bad faith concern is vomit-inducing Hoggie.........so many holes in your conspiracy theory......as well as the blatant contradiction already pointed out.......JTL got busted through sheer stupidity after a run of dope fuelled success that got him a Sky contract......his success stopped as soon as he joined Sky.....no doping.

I'm afraid Hoggie you are trying to make the evidence fit a conclusion you thought up long ago ......it won't work but I suppose in the short term it is st least mildly diverting......
Occams razor would suggest us to take the path of fewest assumptions..... That would be the one that says that anti-doping is not difficult to cheat.......Cookson knows this......but can never say it for pretty apparent reasons.

Mark L

This sounds familiar.... Where have I heard this before?......

Umm....

I remember!

Lance Armstrong was to go down in history as the greatest athlete in the history of humanity. If he were born in another age, we'd learn about the demigod he would no doubt have been come to be recognised as. Instead, in our cynical sensationalistic time, driven by a corrupt media and the insatiable desire to destroy all that is good, his name has been driven through the mud.

And it's that jealousy that has driven those absurd accusations against him. All those other riders, the dopers who couldn't touch Lance even when cheating themselves, have to make up stories about the one clean rider who embarrassed those cheaters.

Since there is no real evidence against Lance, this witch-hunt is wrong. To strip away the greatness from the greatest sportsman in history is the greatest injustice our society has ever done! Lance Armstrong passed all his drug tests - FACT. Lance Armstrong was never caught using or with drugs - FACT. Everyone testifying against him is a self-confessed liar or being threatened by the US Government - FACT. The only FACT we can take away from this is the FACT that the facts don't add up.

The media even admits it themselves. In trying to account for the overwhelming absurdity of their own conspiracy, they admit that this would have to be the most elaborate doping conspiracy in the history of sport. Absurd!!! Might as well allege that Lance was bribing other racers too. Hah! What does the media take us for?

We shouldn't stand for this! Those of us who care about the Truth should stand up for Lance Armstrong. His only crime was being the best, and those who hate that fact have ruined his reputation. They may take away his records, they may take away his Olympic bronze medal, they may his prize-money, but they can NEVER take away his TRUE greatness.

 

[the sceptic]

What he means is that why would the UCI (run by Cookson) bust a British rider on a British team (that is heavily connected to British Cycling that Cookson was involved with previously) that they are (supposedly) protecting?

Why, just why? It doesnt make sense. That would be like me grassing up my best mates wife for cheating on him when she was cheating with me.

JTL is a small fish. No one cares about him. And his doping was probably too blatant and obvious anyway. Cookson cares about protecting the institution of british cycling/sky. BS is not hurt by JTL, they can easily spin that. What Cookson worries about is that something will come out that can hurt the big boys. Now that would be a disaster.

Look at what happened when Froome was busted for horse steroids. Do you think Cookson wanted that to come out? of course not. But once it did, he did everything he could to protect the Dawg.

I support free speech Martin, even if the british law doesnt. Let JTL tell his story.

 

[mrhender]

There is a certain element of frustration and anger in the JTL interview.

The question is : Should Cookson, the UCI president respond in a similar fashion? I think not..

One thing that is seemingly lacking in this sport is whistleblowers.
Now JTL seems to percieve that he's been unfairly treated.
So what he really could be impliyng with the letter comment is that he is none different from the others, and that he's just the patsy while the real criminals walk..

There is a certain dismay with convicted dopers screaming unfairness.
And that is perfectly understandable. But there also seems to be a certain mechanism in that the worse the doper feels stepped upon -the higher the risk of him talking (ex: Landis).

JTL probably has zero evidence of any wrongdoings on others part.
However, and despite of his doping character he might have some valid information of interest to the transparency+anti-doping cause.

The point is.. JTL apparently got no backing whatsoever and as a result from this he hints that something is not right in the system.

In comparison it is interesting that Kreuziger get's loads of support from his team. So while JTL seems poked to provoke -Kreuziger seems nursed to silence.. Kreuziger is on a whole other level and so is his knowledge of what is really going on obviously.. So if your gonna get caught, you'd better be significant as well as armed..

The irony of it all is that we apparently need dopers beeing treated poorly if they are to blow the whistle.. Talk about moral ambivalence...

And Cookson.. I don't trust him one bit...

Call that prejudice.. I don't care as it is only my opinion posted here...

 

[Digger]

What I find disgusting as much as anything is the way he threatens JTL whilst staying silent when Oleg is clearly saying far worse. It's bullying.

 

[mrhender]

Speak up JTL.

Start with a confession. Tell everyone what you did, how you did it and who helped you. Spare no punches and fear no man. Speak the truth.

Cookson's right. Leave this nonsense of Mickey Mouse courts and never testing positive behind you. Don't wallow in self pity, railing against the system that caught you. Speak up and protect the next guy.

You spent a year with Sky and longer within British Cycling. If you know of doping within the team or organisation speak up. Speak clearly, speak bravely and tell the truth.

We're waiting.

I think you demand something from him that he cannot give..

He probably knows a litlle of this and that..
But he was never a part of any inner circle on a higher level...

I think his rant of frustration is just because of that..
He has nothing of significance to bargain with...

If he talks it will probably be smearing time of his character to the max...
Remember he's a convicted doper and a small fish..
A result from this is that if he talks they will lawyer out any credibility that might be left with his word...

 

[Granville57]

I, too, find the idea of Cookson bullying anyone as despicable. But I'm not yet convinced that that is what transpired in the midst of that interview. It seemed, to me, that he was warning JTL away from the idea of returning to coaching, or other activities that clearly violate the conditions of his ban during the designated two years.

I'm not familiar enough with the specific rules, but I would imagine that if JTL were able to convince someone to allow him to participate in banned activities during his period of ineligibility, that his suspension would then be eligible for an extension.

That is what I took away from the Cookson interview.
I'm curious to have a better understanding of the rules under such hypothetical circumstances though.

 

[mrhender]

I, too, find the idea of Cookson bullying anyone as despicable. But I'm not yet convinced that that is what transpired in the midst of that interview. It seemed, to me, that he was warning JTL away from the idea of returning to coaching, or other activities that clearly violate the conditions of his ban during the designated two years.

I'm not familiar enough with the specific rules, but I would imagine that if JTL were able to convince someone to allow him to participate in banned activities during his period of ineligibility, that his suspension would then be eligible for an extension.

That is what I took away from the Cookson interview.
I'm curious to have a better understanding of the rules under such hypothetical circumstances though.

That would also make sense.. Unless the UCI president is claiming independence/ignorance in doping matters..

That is the problem..

You cannot as UCI president engage in these matters, meanwhile claiming it is out of your hands...
If Cookson has no influence in the process then his reply is totally inappropriate... (even if JTL is full of sh!te)

So if a journalist pushes him for an answer he should refer to the independent anti doping body and let them answer...

You cannot claim independence only then to personally engage in any given case... (JTL,Kreuziger)

 

[Granville57]

You cannot as UCI president engage in these matters, meanwhile claiming it is out of your hands...
If Cookson has no influence in the process then his reply is totally inappropriate... (even if JTL is full of sh!te)

The "process" is one thing though (testing, notification of positives/negatives, etc) but I would think that if a violation occurs during a banned period, that it would be in the hands of the UCI (and Cookson) to take action, no?

 

[mrhender]

The "process" is one thing though (testing, notification of positives/negatives, etc) but I would think that if a violation occurs during a banned period, that it would be in the hands of the UCI (and Cookson) to take action, no?

You are probably right from a technical pov...

I do however think that there is a lack of coherence in the talk and the walk..
The UCI president when engaging in these outbursts must not respond with similar fury.. Cookson should be above this, to strenghten his reform claims.. Wether it beeing technically correct or not..

All in my opinion..

 

[thehog]

What I find disgusting as much as anything is the way he threatens JTL whilst staying silent when Oleg is clearly saying far worse. It's bullying.

The Cookson video is hilarious, whenever he talks about the RK case he keeps saying "we" then corrects himself. Here's me thinking anti-doping was independent... but he clearly deeply involved.

 

[ebandit]

This sounds familiar.... Where have I heard this before?......

Umm....

I remember!

You've lost your touch Hoggie........your trolling is now so amateurish and illogical its like watching a p155-trousered tramp shouting nonsense at passers-by.........that the forum's once great master troll is reduced to this........

Mark L

 

[TailWindHome]

I think you demand something from him that he cannot give..

He probably knows a litlle of this and that..
But he was never a part of any inner circle on a higher level...

I think his rant of frustration is just because of that..
He has nothing of significance to bargain with...

If he talks it will probably be smearing time of his character to the max...
Remember he's a convicted doper and a small fish..
A result from this is that if he talks they will lawyer out any credibility that might be left with his word...

Well he can start with a confession, what he took, how he took it and who helped him.

A doper's testimony only gains credibility when it starts with taking responsibility for his own actions.