You could argue that because Sky's budget is like 3x as high as that of some other teams, those teams are less likely to score good results resulting in less interested sponsors resulting in less financial stability.
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King Of The Wolds said:the asian said:
Really? You want the company who provide the most sponsorship funding to the sport of professional cycling to just disappear?
They dominate two races - the Tour de France and Paris-Nice. They have only won two of the 39 monuments they have competed in.the asian said:King Of The Wolds said:the asian said:
Really? You want the company who provide the most sponsorship funding to the sport of professional cycling to just disappear?
I hate boring dull dominance by One Team.
The dissapearance of SKY will be beneficial to cycling just like the folding of USPS was.
With the New President's vision of banning Power Meters & possibly race radios it will make racing interesting again.
Lol.Parker said:They dominate two races - the Tour de France and Paris-Nice. They have only won two of the 39 monuments they have competed in.the asian said:King Of The Wolds said:the asian said:
Really? You want the company who provide the most sponsorship funding to the sport of professional cycling to just disappear?
I hate boring dull dominance by One Team.
The dissapearance of SKY will be beneficial to cycling just like the folding of USPS was.
With the New President's vision of banning Power Meters & possibly race radios it will make racing interesting again.
The way the sport is constructed means there will always be stronger teams and weaker teams. It's been this way since Alcyon.
As for power meters, whether riders have them or not, it won't change the way teams ride. They ride that way because they have spent hundreds of hours training to rider that way. Waiting until the final climb is just sensible tactics.
Tonton said:I sure wish Lappartient the best. I don't want to see a "Lappartient is worse than Cookson, who was worse than McQuaid" thread. In the end , we'll judge him by his actions, not the blahblahblah. Sky will be just fine. Hopefully, small teams and small races will be the focus. Without them, there's no cycling culture. No base. The broader the base, the stronger the sport, the more money pours in. I.e. football/soccer .
So what would you do?Forever The Best said:Lol.Parker said:Waiting until the final climb is just sensible tactics.
Fuente De, Guardiagrele, Formigal, Risoul, Val Martello, Galibier or this years Solaison and Nice stages. Or the way Contador won at Angliru by escaping on Cordal descent.Parker said:So what would you do?Forever The Best said:Lol.Parker said:Waiting until the final climb is just sensible tactics.
A lot of those were last ditch attacks by someone with nothing to lose. In most cases they failed.Forever The Best said:Fuente De, Guardiagrele, Formigal, Risoul, Val Martello, Galibier or this years Solaison and Nice stages. Or the way Contador won at Angliru by escaping on Cordal descent.Parker said:So what would you do?Forever The Best said:Lol.Parker said:Waiting until the final climb is just sensible tactics.
??Parker said:Most of those were last ditch attacks by someone with nothing to lose. In most cases they failed.Forever The Best said:Fuente De, Guardiagrele, Formigal, Risoul, Val Martello, Galibier or this years Solaison and Nice stages. Or the way Contador won at Angliru by escaping on Cordal descent.Parker said:So what would you do?Forever The Best said:Lol.Parker said:Waiting until the final climb is just sensible tactics.
Fuente De workedForever The Best said:Fuente De, Formigal, Risoul and Val Martello changed an entire GT. Guardiagrele and Solaison succeeded as well. Only Nice and Galibier failed. (And Nice was extremely close to succeeding and would have if not for Bahrain working pointlessly for a 4th place on the stage.) And Contador went for the stage at Cordal descent and took it.
Or Aprica 2010, but since Aprica is a easy climb and Mortirolo is very hard it is pretty different from the others.
Or many riders forming a huge break at L'Aquila 2010. Arroyo got a 2nd place because of that.
What does this even meanParker said:Guariagerle needed a 30% climb
We know Contador always raced with no power indication on his power meter except in TTs.And all the riders involved in those moves had power meters.
Parker said:They dominate two races - the Tour de France and Paris-Nice. They have only won two of the 39 monuments they have competed in.the asian said:King Of The Wolds said:the asian said:
Really? You want the company who provide the most sponsorship funding to the sport of professional cycling to just disappear?
I hate boring dull dominance by One Team.
The dissapearance of SKY will be beneficial to cycling just like the folding of USPS was.
With the New President's vision of banning Power Meters & possibly race radios it will make racing interesting again.
The way the sport is constructed means there will always be stronger teams and weaker teams. It's been this way since Alcyon.
As for power meters, whether riders have them or not, it won't change the way teams ride. They ride that way because they have spent hundreds of hours training to rider that way. Waiting until the final climb is just sensible tactics. Sky's main tactic is having the best rider (they may not have in future)
Risoul stage to 2016 Giro. Chavez and Nibali attacked on Agnello that day and the GC group was down to 3 (Chavez, Nibali, Kruiswijk). Kruiswijk crashed on the descent trying to follow them, got injured, isolated, lost minutes and the maglia rosa. Nibali won the stage, Chavez took the pink, then Nibali attacked the next day as well and won the Giro.Parker said:Fuente De workedForever The Best said:Fuente De, Formigal, Risoul and Val Martello changed an entire GT. Guardiagrele and Solaison succeeded as well. Only Nice and Galibier failed. (And Nice was extremely close to succeeding and would have if not for Bahrain working pointlessly for a 4th place on the stage.) And Contador went for the stage at Cordal descent and took it.
Or Aprica 2010, but since Aprica is a easy climb and Mortirolo is very hard it is pretty different from the others.
Or many riders forming a huge break at L'Aquila 2010. Arroyo got a 2nd place because of that.
Formigal - the beneficiary was Quintana, but it wasn't his tactic
Guariagerle needed a 30% climb
Solaison was won by an attack on the final climb
Risoul (which one?). Val Martello I missed
Anyway, these are exceptions. Last gasp efforts. In the meantime waiting for the final climb has a far superior success rate as a tactic.
rghysens said:TMP402 said:Echoes makes a great point. Among the first things the new president could do is reduce the number of artificial top-down WT races to allow teams to race more traditional, local races which are loved and have a community behind them, instead of soulless Arab and Chinese excursions.
Although soulless, Qatar and Oman have produced some of the most entertaining racing the last few years. China not so, I'll give you that.
Parker said:They dominate two races - the Tour de France and Paris-Nice. They have only won two of the 39 monuments they have competed in.
The way the sport is constructed means there will always be stronger teams and weaker teams. It's been this way since Alcyon.
As for power meters, whether riders have them or not, it won't change the way teams ride. They ride that way because they have spent hundreds of hours training to rider that way. Waiting until the final climb is just sensible tactics. Sky's main tactic is having the best rider (they may not have in future)
Only for the strongest guy in the race, and honestly, "someone won each of those races where they all waited for the final climb" is not a particularly telling fact.Parker said:Anyway, these are exceptions. Last gasp efforts. In the meantime waiting for the final climb has a far superior success rate as a tactic.
I would argue that the other riders got the best result that they could.hrotha said:Only for the strongest guy in the race, and honestly, "someone won each of those races where they all waited for the final climb" is not a particularly telling fact.Parker said:Anyway, these are exceptions. Last gasp efforts. In the meantime waiting for the final climb has a far superior success rate as a tactic.
There are more examples in smaller races for riders that were around the top 5-10 or so by strength but weren't content with following wheels and got some great stage wins and GC gains (e.g. S. Yates in Fayence and Leysin)Parker said:I would argue that the other riders got the best result that they could.hrotha said:Only for the strongest guy in the race, and honestly, "someone won each of those races where they all waited for the final climb" is not a particularly telling fact.Parker said:Anyway, these are exceptions. Last gasp efforts. In the meantime waiting for the final climb has a far superior success rate as a tactic.
Sure. And none of it has anything to do with power meters - which was my original point. Power meters don't change tactics - the physics of the world remains the same with or with out them.Forever The Best said:There are more examples in smaller races for riders that were around the top 5-10 or so by strength but weren't content with following wheels and got some great stage wins and GC gains (e.g. S. Yates in Fayence and Leysin)Parker said:I would argue that the other riders got the best result that they could.hrotha said:Only for the strongest guy in the race, and honestly, "someone won each of those races where they all waited for the final climb" is not a particularly telling fact.Parker said:Anyway, these are exceptions. Last gasp efforts. In the meantime waiting for the final climb has a far superior success rate as a tactic.
Not really. Power meters make it easier for teams to control since they basically give helpers exact information how fast they have to ride while leaders who wait can perfectly time their effort and will never go into the red chasing attackers. There are hardly any cases in which a rider like Froome blows up because his power meter tells him how fast he can go and if it tells him he should drop he drops, but by using his power meter is still limits the damage. Things like Contador completely blowing up on Lagos de Covadonga in 2016 when he tried to follow Quintana's accelerations would never happen to a rider like Froome, however maybe they would if he must not use a power meter.Parker said:Sure. And none of it has anything to do with power meters - which was my original point. Power meters don't change tactics - the physics of the world remains the same with or with out them.Forever The Best said:There are more examples in smaller races for riders that were around the top 5-10 or so by strength but weren't content with following wheels and got some great stage wins and GC gains (e.g. S. Yates in Fayence and Leysin)Parker said:I would argue that the other riders got the best result that they could.hrotha said:Only for the strongest guy in the race, and honestly, "someone won each of those races where they all waited for the final climb" is not a particularly telling fact.Parker said:Anyway, these are exceptions. Last gasp efforts. In the meantime waiting for the final climb has a far superior success rate as a tactic.
Froome's not some amateur racer. He spends hours training to certain power levels. He knows exactly what level he's riding at. (Heart rate monitors are a better guide to effort anyway). Take the power meter off Froome and he'll still ride in the same way.Gigs_98 said:Not really. Power meters make it easier for teams to control since they basically give helpers exact information how fast they have to ride while leaders who wait can perfectly time their effort and will never go into the red chasing attackers. There are hardly any cases in which a rider like Froome blows up because his power meter tells him how fast he can go and if it tells him he should drop he drops, but by using his power meter is still limits the damage. Things like Contador completely blowing up on Lagos de Covadonga in 2016 when he tried to follow Quintana's accelerations would never happen to a rider like Froome, however maybe they would if he must not use a power meter.
The thing is, power meters are rational. They more or less tell you how you can finish a stage as fast as possible. Long range attacks however aren't rational. For them to work you need a mixture of luck, the right composition of your chasing group and you have to risk blowing up and losing a lot of time. If you always have a rational voice in your head your are probably less likely to try something risky which might end up being stupid, but very often that's what makes cycling so great.
So then it would be no issue to take them away, right? If they don't help in any way?Parker said:Froome's not some amateur racer. He spends hours training to certain power levels. He knows exactly what level he's riding at. (Heart rate monitors are a better guide to effort anyway). Take the power meter off Froome and he'll still ride in the same way.Gigs_98 said:Not really. Power meters make it easier for teams to control since they basically give helpers exact information how fast they have to ride while leaders who wait can perfectly time their effort and will never go into the red chasing attackers. There are hardly any cases in which a rider like Froome blows up because his power meter tells him how fast he can go and if it tells him he should drop he drops, but by using his power meter is still limits the damage. Things like Contador completely blowing up on Lagos de Covadonga in 2016 when he tried to follow Quintana's accelerations would never happen to a rider like Froome, however maybe they would if he must not use a power meter.
The thing is, power meters are rational. They more or less tell you how you can finish a stage as fast as possible. Long range attacks however aren't rational. For them to work you need a mixture of luck, the right composition of your chasing group and you have to risk blowing up and losing a lot of time. If you always have a rational voice in your head your are probably less likely to try something risky which might end up being stupid, but very often that's what makes cycling so great.
A power meter is like a Sat Nav. They are useful help to many, but an experience taxi driver is going to take the same route with or without one.
It's not like Froome is the only one who is training that much. Every pro has as much experience on the bike as Froome, so if Froome doesn't need one nobody does.Parker said:Froome's not some amateur racer. He spends hours training to certain power levels. He knows exactly what level he's riding at. (Heart rate monitors are a better guide to effort anyway). Take the power meter off Froome and he'll still ride in the same way.Gigs_98 said:Not really. Power meters make it easier for teams to control since they basically give helpers exact information how fast they have to ride while leaders who wait can perfectly time their effort and will never go into the red chasing attackers. There are hardly any cases in which a rider like Froome blows up because his power meter tells him how fast he can go and if it tells him he should drop he drops, but by using his power meter is still limits the damage. Things like Contador completely blowing up on Lagos de Covadonga in 2016 when he tried to follow Quintana's accelerations would never happen to a rider like Froome, however maybe they would if he must not use a power meter.
The thing is, power meters are rational. They more or less tell you how you can finish a stage as fast as possible. Long range attacks however aren't rational. For them to work you need a mixture of luck, the right composition of your chasing group and you have to risk blowing up and losing a lot of time. If you always have a rational voice in your head your are probably less likely to try something risky which might end up being stupid, but very often that's what makes cycling so great.
A power meter is like a Sat Nav. They are useful help to many, but an experience taxi driver is going to take the same route with or without one.
I don't really think this is off topic. We discuss about what Lappartient wants to change and if that would be good decisions.King Boonen said:It's the third page and we've already gone off-topic. Lets get it back to Lappartient and Cookson please.