Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[Chris Gadsden]

Chris, the clip simply confirms word for word the published version of what Trump said, which you posted above, and which was also in the NYT piece that I linked to. Trump was definitely referring to chemicals when he said disinfectants. He used the latter word exactly as Bryan did, and as I noted before, the term injection is further confirmation. Most people, and especially non-scientists, do not refer to UV light as a disinfectant, and they certainly don't refer to it in terms of injecting it.

Even PolitiFact didn't buy what you have convinced yourself of.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/24/context-what-donald-trump-said-about-disinfectant-/

i understand that you are extremely supportive of Trump's policies, including what he did or didn't do re the virus.

You don't get it. In his term he's done a bunch of things well and a bunch of things not so well. By that standard not too different than the last guy or the next guy. But there's a gigantic difference in the reaction of the opposition to DJT and the lengths gone to cripple his admin. Well past shameful.

Interesting research, but again, it's about sterilizing surfaces. There's nothing in what you posted about in vivo applications.

I'm beginning to think you aren't reading what you are responding to.

You simply can't admit it when Trump says or does something really dumb. You're going to great lengths to avoid acknowledging that.

Had to chuckle at this one. This started when you wrote this:

Trump made two of the top eight junk science claims in this list--injecting bleach and using HCQ. With regards to bleach:

It's a shame that this got lost in the uproar of injecting bleach, but that's on him.

No, it's actually on you and those who pushed this and many other garbage stories fed to you as pure propaganda.

Trump's inability to speak logically and clearly

Was exacerbated by half the Country's inability to question what one political party was telling them with the enormous support by the propagandists in the corporate media industrial complex.

Of course you still think he said to inject bleach.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

Update on my husband's health issues. Definitely not a Covid issue. He finally got a CT scan and they told him that he has lung cancer (at that moment it's only in his left lung).

I am sorry to read this. Hopefully there are some effective treatment options.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

And you certainly don't believe every word he says. Kayleigh McIninny is not convincing trying to re-explain the meaning of his words. He was ignorant on that particular issue and had to recreate some explanation. The main point being: he talks sh*t about major issues in a manner suiting his political narrative on topics of major consequence. When caught; his minions and sycophants either claim to "not heard President Trumps comment" (how many times does that come out of Mitch McConnell's mouth or Lindsay Graham's?) rather than fumbling for another ridiculous explanation.
None of this helps the situation nor reinforces the credibility of Covid measures taken other than the same loyal folks chumming his reelection fund scam. I really hope those that have grown to believe in him devote as much energy to clawing back their money and dignity from him when they figure it out.

I'm really trying hard to differentiate what you write here from any prior administration in my lifetime. Change a few names and replace Covid with Issue du Jour and you could have made the exact same points.

Further, do you think elected officials on Biden's side of the aisle wince frequently with the disjointed nonsense coming out of his mouth? I mean, if we took him at his word he'd be the next Senator from Delaware fending off CornPop.

I'll be sure to get your thoughts on Biden's musings when they happen.

 

[movingtarget]

Vatican says getting Covid vaccine 'morally acceptable'

Catholic church says researchers’ use of cell material derived from foetuses does not amount to cooperating with abortion

www.theguardian.com

 

[movingtarget]

Ontario announces hard lockdown after Covid cases surge

Premier of Canadian province says restrictions will last for up to a month and should save thousands of lives

www.theguardian.com

 

[dusty red roads]

Yeah, it's not news I was expecting or wanting. He's in his early/mid 50's. He used to smoke (quit about 15 years ago). I do wonder if is related to work place exposure.

It sounds like it's just in the one lung, but really hoping at worst it's stage 2 of the common form as it seems the survival rate is good as long as it's common form and not past stage 2.

Yeah, he tested positive in October for Covid, but the symptoms he had was bad coughing, which we thought was more bronchitis and some loss of energy. The weird part is that he's actually started feeling a bit better and isn't coughing as much the past week or so. The above symptoms are also symptoms of lung cancer. He was diagnosed with pneumonia back in Sept by the local hospital when they did an X-ray here. He's obviously had this issue for a few months before that. (another reason I'm really hoping this is the common form.)

I hope it's the case too, keeping my fingers crossed for you.

 

[Koronin]

I hope it's the case too, keeping my fingers crossed for you.

They are going to try to get him in for a first appointment at UNC-Chapel Hill's cancer section this week. Finger crossed that happens. (I am glad he's in an area where at least I trust the two main hospitals which are Duke U and UNC - Chapel Hill).

 

[Merckx index]

Even PolitiFact didn't buy what you have convinced yourself of.

I think for myself. I don't blindly repeat some opinion or interpretation that someone else makes. Here's what Politifact actually said:

But others said Trump meant something very different — that doctors could investigate whether using sunlight or disinfectants could clear the virus in patients.

How do you use disinfectant to “clear” the virus in patients WITHOUT injecting it? Hello? PF said "others" believed Trump meant something very different (not that he did say something very different, but in the opinion of others--like you, e.g.--he might have meant something very different), then described that something as exactly what I've been maintaining all along. To say a treatment with disinfectants clears the virus presupposes injection. There isn't any other way you could clear the virus with a disinfectant. Obviously, simply external use isn't going to clear it. But PF, not being a group of scientists, apparently doesn't even understand this.

Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

"It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object."

Yes, as I pointed out earlier, Trump walked back his injection comment, as soon as he saw the reaction to it by others. To point out he did this is not to say he never said or meant injection of disinfectant. It just means he realized that he had said something dumb.

It’s not clear what part of that discussion he was characterizing as a "sarcastic question" to reporters.

It’s not clear to anyone in denial that he said injection of disinfectant. It’s very clear as soon as one accepts this. Hint: when something is not clear in the context of--i.e., is inconsistent with--your interpretation, your interpretation is probably wrong.

If someone denied that Trump said grab p-sy in the Billy Bush tape, that person would no doubt think it wasn't clear why Trump later said that was just locker room talk. As soon as you accept that Trump did in fact say certain things, his childish ways of trying to pretend he wasn't serious become blatantly obvious.

I'm beginning to think you aren't reading what you are responding to.

I'm beginning to think you don't understand your own posts. You posted something about UV light. I pointed out that everything in that discussion was about external applications, not internal, which is what you have been harping about wrt Trump.

Further, do you think elected officials on Biden's side of the aisle wince frequently with the disjointed nonsense coming out of his mouth?

I wince frequently. Believe it or not, I can criticize the hell out of Biden, Obama, Clinton, Pelosi, Schumer, any Democrat you can mention. I don't now and won't when he takes office knee-jerk rush to Biden's defense after he takes office. Unlike so many others about others, which we can't discuss further here.

 

[Unchained]

I want to commend Chris for doing most of the work supporting crazy. I was sent a message from a member here demanding that I personally confirm that lights placed in your body cure ailments, after a trip to Home Depot and some KY..I can confirm that a 100 watt bulb in a drop light doesn't make everything go away..I also took advice from a guy in Idaho that met a doctor once, 6 years ago in an airport in Milwaukee to drink bleach and disinfectant..I did 6 shots of each alternating between the delicious therapeutic drinks. I would like to report that my teeth look as white as I can ever remember. My underwear smell fresh..and dribbles cause white spots which I think look cool. I have more pressure and if I aim correctly and wave myself in a careful circle I can get any pesky stains off my toilet.
So I think I am going halfway on this to meet Chris in the middle,all those things Trump said that initially looked kooky turned out to have some benefits. Nobody has asked if any honorary doctorate degrees were given out from the fantastic,now defunct university, don't know if they had a medical school, but they probably did but the fake news just won't report it.
And most people would think.o.k. I understand why you are not doing anything about the virus because campaigns take time and energy, but once the election was over,dedicate the found time,with the campaign conclusion..but again I was premature..I didn't realize that the election was still undecided,so I give President Trump a free pass because everything is still up in the air..
1748 deaths today was no big deal

 

[Unchained]

322,000+ thousand dead and current leaders are still talking about politics..not my priority but theirs..go figure

 

[Jagartrott]

Note that the excess mortality (I will assume 2019 doesn't deviate a lot from the average) seems higher than the reported covid deaths.
(in Belgium it's the other way round)

2020 is the deadliest year in US history

This is the deadliest year in US history, with deaths expected to top 3 million for the first time — due mainly to the coronavirus pandemic.

Final mortality data for this year will not be available for months, AP reports.
But preliminary numbers suggest that the United States is on track to see more than 3.2 million deaths this year, or at least 400,000 more than in 2019.

US deaths increase most years, so some annual rise in fatalities is expected. But the 2020 numbers amount to a jump of about 15%, and could go higher once all the deaths from this month are counted.

That would mark the largest single-year percentage leap since 1918, when tens of thousands of US soldiers died in the first world war and hundreds of thousands of Americans died in a flu pandemic. Deaths rose 46% that year, compared with 1917.

Covid-19 has killed more than 318,000 Americans and counting. Before it came along, there was reason to be hopeful about US death trends.

The nation’s overall mortality rate fell a bit in 2019, due to reductions in heart disease and cancer deaths. And life expectancy inched up — by several weeks — for the second straight year, according to death certificate data released Tuesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

But life expectancy for 2020 could end up dropping as much as three full years, said Robert Anderson of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

[Unchained]

Lots of recent reporting about increased travel for Christmas and New years holiday suggests that in @14 days we will see some increased everything.
Million traveling per day

 

[Nomad]

Vitamin D sales!

C'mon man...I don't know why you're mocking me for posting information on Vitamin D? There are, in fact, studies that show people with higher levels of D3 are more resistant to respiratory infections.

Here's some very interesting information that just came out:

"Experts send Vitamin D and Covid-19 open letter to world's government:"

Experts send Vitamin D and Covid-19 open letter to world's governments

In an open letter being sent to world governments today (21st December), 120 health, science and medical experts from the UK, US, and Europe say there is clear scientific evidence that vitamin D reduces Covid-19 infections, hospitalisations, and deaths.

www.nutraingredients.com

"In an open letter sent to world governments today (21st December), 120 health, science, and medical experts from the UK, US and Europe say there is clear scientific evidence that Vitamin D reduces Covid-19 infections, hospitalizations, and deaths."

"The scientists involved in an open letter say that global patterns and risk factors for the Covid-19 pandemic and vitamin D deficiency match "precisely" due to impact on immune function. They say that research shows that low vitamin D levels markedly increase the likelyhood of COVID-19 infections, hospitalizations and deaths."

"The group of scientists are calling for immediate, widespread, increased vitamin D intakes with most signatories declaring that they personally take at least 4,000 International Units (IU) per day - many take more."

 

[Nomad]

I agree that doctors don't promote a healthy lifestyle enough, and it's scandalous that more people don't take better care of their bodies. But part of the reason for this is that the effects that a healthy lifestyle has are relatively small and random, compared to the far more dramatic effects of many drugs, vaccines, and other modern medical treatments. A great illustration of this is Steve Jobs, who thought he could beat pancreatic cancer through healthy alternative methods, and thus missed the window of opportunity when more aggressive medical treatments might have saved him. There was also Jim Fixx, who became famous by promoting running for health, but died of a heart attack while he was running. The inconvenient truth is that lifestyle has relatively little effect on serious diseases, nor is it likely to play as much of a role as genetics. You would be really foolish to believe that any lifestyle--other than isolating yourself from contact with others--would protect you more from C19 than vaccination.

There's no guarantee that Jobs would have beaten the cancer through conventional medical treatments - more than likely it would have had little effect. Alex Trebek & Patrick Swayze had the best medical treatment in the world for their pancreatic cancer cases and both succumbed to the disease. Pancreatic cancer is one of the worst cancers with a very low survivability rate.

Jim Fixx had a family history of heart disease and he himself had an enlarged heart and a very unhealthy life style (smoked cigarettes), and didn't take up running until age 36. It could be argued that running and the change in his lifestyle allow him to live another 16 yrs.

A well-functioning immune system is critical for survival. Micronutrients, Macronutrients & gut microbiome have immunological effects.

A depressed immune system from poor nutritional habits, a sedentary lifestyle, obesity, excess alcohol consumption, smoking, recreational drug use, etc., already puts these people at a disadvantage in effectively fighting off respiratory and other infections. Covid-19 is no different - it's a respiratory virus that a healthy immune system can fight off.

Diet and Immune Function - PMC

A well-functioning immune system is critical for survival. The immune system must be constantly alert, monitoring for signs of invasion or danger. Cells of the immune system must be able to distinguish self from non-self and furthermore discriminate ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Nomad]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1248617666308235264

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/MartinKulldorff/status/1248617666308235264

COVID-19 Counter Measures Should be Age Specific

Among COVID-19 exposed individuals, people in their 70s have roughly twice the mortality of those in their 60s, 10 times the mortality of those in their 50s, 40 times that of those in their 40s, 100 times that of those in their 30s, 300 times that of those in their 20s, and a mortality that is more

www.linkedin.com

 

[Chris Gadsden]

I'm beginning to think you don't understand your own posts. You posted something about UV light. I pointed out that everything in that discussion was about external applications, not internal, which is what you have been harping about wrt Trump.

I sure did.

This was written;

True, but not what we are talking about. And even that is dated, written before we knew that fomites and surfaces were less important for COVID-19 transmission than people breathing on each other.

I responded;

What if I were to tell you UV light might be involved as a benefit here too? I think you'd dismiss it because of who brought this idea to your lexicon, not because of its merit or lack thereof.

Then I posted this link that is using UV light charged polymer and oligomer material that could have a huge potential in limiting the spread of all sorts of virus/bacteria;

Battling COVID-19 using UV light

Researchers have found a possible breakthrough in how to manage COVID-19, as well as future viruses. It involves using polymer and oligomer materials activated with UV light in order to kill microbes on surfaces.

www.sciencedaily.com

So yeah, you missed this part.

How do you use disinfectant to “clear” the virus in patients WITHOUT injecting it? Hello?

Perhaps you are unaware but UV light is also considered a disinfectant. In the the context of the comments made at the presser, what makes more sense to you? He's talking about UV light, talking about killing the virus in one minute and finishes his comments talking about UV light.

There's really nothing more to it except for what you and many others want to read in to what was said. This isn't hard.

It just means he realized that he had said something dumb.

Comments by people are clarified and walked back all of the time. No one is immune from this. You said he said inject bleach. He never said that and never suggested anyone do it either.

I can criticize the hell out of...........

I hope so.

 

[djpbaltimore]

C'mon man...I don't know why you're mocking me for posting information on Vitamin D? There are, in fact, studies that show people with higher levels of D3 are more resistant to respiratory infections.

Here's some very interesting information that just came out:

"Experts send Vitamin D and Covid-19 open letter to world's government:"

Experts send Vitamin D and Covid-19 open letter to world's governments

In an open letter being sent to world governments today (21st December), 120 health, science and medical experts from the UK, US, and Europe say there is clear scientific evidence that vitamin D reduces Covid-19 infections, hospitalisations, and deaths.

www.nutraingredients.com

Vitamin D supplementation is brought up for most diseases at one time or another. I don't think there has ever been an instance where it has been shown to be beneficial unless you have a deficiency. I wonder what vitamin pill sales have been like this year?

It always amuses me that many homeopathy people swear by vitamins but look down their nose at pharma. A distinction without much difference IMO.

Analysis of vitamin D level among asymptomatic and critically ill COVID-19 patients and its correlation with inflammatory markers - Scientific Reports

COVID-19 is characterized by marked variability in clinical severity. Vitamin D had recently been reviewed as one of the factors that may affect the severity in COVID-19. The objective of current study is to analyze the vitamin D level in COVID-19 patients and its impact on the disease severity...

www.nature.com

 

[jmdirt]

Vitamin D supplementation is brought up for most diseases at one time or another. I don't think there has ever been an instance where it has been shown to be beneficial unless you have a deficiency. I wonder what vitamin pill sales have been like this year?

It always amuses me that many homeopathy people swear by vitamins but look down their nose at pharma. A distinction without much difference IMO.

Analysis of vitamin D level among asymptomatic and critically ill COVID-19 patients and its correlation with inflammatory markers - Scientific Reports

COVID-19 is characterized by marked variability in clinical severity. Vitamin D had recently been reviewed as one of the factors that may affect the severity in COVID-19. The objective of current study is to analyze the vitamin D level in COVID-19 patients and its impact on the disease severity...

www.nature.com

If you eat well there is no need for supplementation. As you said, there is no need for supplementation unless you have a deficiency, but filling that deficiency with food is best. Most water soluble supplements get peed out, and most fat soluble supplements get breathed out (read: not used by the body).

I would actually put nutritional supplements below (most) pharma, but both way below nutrition. This could lead into a long discussion that would get pretty off topic so I'll stop here.

 

[FrankB]

They are going to try to get him in for a first appointment at UNC-Chapel Hill's cancer section this week. Finger crossed that happens. (I am glad he's in an area where at least I trust the two main hospitals which are Duke U and UNC - Chapel Hill).

I'm an eleven year lung cancer survivor. If you or your husband have any questions, feel free to ask

 

[Koronin]

I'm an eleven year lung cancer survivor. If you or your husband have any questions, feel free to ask

Thank you. Appreciate it.

 

[Merckx index]

So yeah, you missed this part.

OK, I will accept that. But when you said that I didn't read your post, you should have said that I didn't read your post in response to someone else, because it was your dialogue with Baltimore that you were referring to. But I will accept that what you posted is a good response to that.

Perhaps you are unaware but UV light is also considered a disinfectant. In the the context of the comments made at the presser, what makes more sense to you? He's talking about UV light, talking about killing the virus in one minute and finishes his comments talking about UV light.

There's really nothing more to it except for what you and many others want to read in to what was said. This isn't hard.

I said that UV light can be considered a disinfectant, OK? Did you read my post? But I also pointed out that when most people use that term, they refer to a chemical like bleach. Particularly when they are immediately responding to someone (Bryan) who uses disinfectant in that sense, and when they also use the word inject, which no one ever uses in reference to UV light. No other interpretation makes sense, and Trump's reference to sarcasm also doesn't make sense except in that context.

I'm sure many posters here are looking at this argument and thinking, enough already of quarreling over a relatively minor issue. I think it illustrates something important about how many debates go. You said I was just spouting what was fed me by the media. In fact, you are the one who apparently went through the media until you could find one opinion--not fact, but opinion--that basically exonerated Trump. I never followed any opinion expressed in the media. i looked at the facts--the video you posted and the word-for-word transcription of it that you also posted--and along with other facts which you didn't post--Bryan's use of the term disinfectant specifically to apply to chemicals--and deduced that Trump had to be referring to it. Nothing else makes sense.

Once one grasps this, it's easy to see that the PF opinion you expressed reflects a misunderstanding of basic science. You can't clear the virus with a chemical if you don't inject it. By using the term, PF is simply confirming that they, too, concluded that Trump was talking about injecting bleach.

In fact, by using PF to support your opinion, you're also contradicting your own. view that disinfectant referred to UV light. Because the PF passage specifically distinguishes between "sunlight and disinfectants". Even PF sees that disinfectants refers to chemicals, not UV.

 

[movingtarget]

California records half a million Covid cases in two weeks

Governor Newsom warns of 100,000 hospitalizations within a month and stay-at-home orders likely to be extended next week

www.theguardian.com

 

[movingtarget]

France agrees to reopen UK border to lorry drivers with negative Covid test

Update on freight expected later, with Grant Shapps saying hauliers ‘must still not travel to Kent’

www.theguardian.com

 

[movingtarget]

South Africa struggles to contain second Covid wave with new strain

Variant similar to that in UK appears to be causing faster spread than during first wave

www.theguardian.com

 

[Chris Gadsden]

I'm sure many posters here are looking at this argument and thinking, enough already of quarreling over a relatively minor issue. I think it illustrates something important about how many debates go. You said I was just spouting what was fed me by the media. In fact, you are the one who apparently went through the media until you could find one opinion--not fact, but opinion--that basically exonerated Trump. I never followed any opinion expressed in the media. i looked at the facts--the video you posted and the word-for-word transcription of it that you also posted--and along with other facts which you didn't post--Bryan's use of the term disinfectant specifically to apply to chemicals--and deduced that Trump had to be referring to it. Nothing else makes sense.

I'll agree that other posters here are likely scratching their heads. At the time the propagandists went after POTUS there was a fairly full-throated backlash against the 'POTUS said to inject bleach' nonsense. There was a similar attempt with the chloroquine phosphate episode to accuse DJT of causing some dude's death for taking fish tank cleaner. 100% made up fiction by the press. The Charlottesville "very fine people on both sides" lies (told recently by the president-elect). Why does the press continue with the propaganda? Because it works.

In fact, by using PF to support your opinion, you're also contradicting your own. view that disinfectant referred to UV light. Because the PF passage specifically distinguishes between "sunlight and disinfectants". Even PF sees that disinfectants refers to chemicals, not UV.

So anyway, I posted the PF link because even those guys admit POTUS never said to inject bleach. Which, once again, was what you said he said. He didn't say that, that's not what he was suggesting.