Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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I think the point is if you support choice then you would need to accept that more Americans would have died. The stats suggest most would experience mild or no symptoms as you did to achieve a level of immunity without vaccine but at end of the day nearly 800,000 Americans have died from Covid according to the official statistics - most of any country.
These numbers here are skewed in my opinon. There are instances where someone dies with covid, not from covid and those are added to the numbers everyday.
 
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Agreed, the seatbelt analogy is a bit flawed. A better analogy would be the many other vaccines that have long been pretty much mandatory (or 100% mandatory) in many places long before COVID.
People have been getting around the other mandatory vaccine polices for schools forever. If you register a child in school in the USA you would see how some people get around not having their children take every vaccine.
 
How can you make this claim with a straight face? You just posted that we can't tell whether the vaccine was safe or not. You are very clearly advocating for people to not get vaccinated for Covid-19.
I haven't suggested to anyone that they not take the vaccines. I just posted a fact that the clinical trials didn't evaluate long-term safety because they were cut short & the vaccines were rushed to the public under the emergency authorization clause. Most of my friends & relatives are vaccinated and they will out of curiosity from time to time ask why I'm hesitant and I respond with two answers; I have post-infection immunity & I'm concerned about the lack of long-term safety data. None of them fly off the handle handle & accuse me of advocating for people not to take the vaccine. Lol

Remember the video I posted on ER physician Dr. Tommy Redwood who was fired from Piedmont Hospital in Atlanta for refusing the vaccine? He's says he's not anti-vaxx because he's taken both the flu & hepatitis vaccines. He also acknowledges that the vast majority of patients in the hospitals with Covid are unvaccinated. However, he points out the that vaccine isn't for him - he says he is far less likely to get serious ill from Covid because he doesn't have any comorbidities like most of the Covid patients he sees. Redwood further adds that the risk of any possible unknown side-effects from the vaccine outweighs any proven benefit - now that the vaccines require boosters.

So, clearly Redwood is concerned about possible safety issues, and doing his own benefit/risk analysis feels the risks outweigh the benefits for him. Does this make Redwood anti-vaxx & advocating for people not to take the vaccine? I don't think so. Btw, Redwood got a job offer from an Alabama hospital that feels his experience as a seasoned ER physician is far more valuable than the politics of him refusing these mandates forced on health care workers.

View: https://youtu.be/VTfO0GYMbCU
 
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People have been getting around the other mandatory vaccine polices for schools forever. If you register a child in school in the USA you would see how some people get around not having their children take every vaccine.
The childhood immunization requirements vary from state to state with 44 states allowing either a philosophical or religious exemption. No exemptions other than medical for the other 6 states where home schooling would be the only option for parents refusing vaccination.

 
No mandates in Japan with an emphasis on "Informed Consent"

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/RWMaloneMD/status/1469868028179451907



Japan's cases are completely flat & it looks like they have the pandemic under control. Meanwhile, South Korea is exploding with cases not seen since the start of the pandemic.


What's going here in SK? I thought they were given global recognition & used as a role model for how well they initially handle the pandemic?
 
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These numbers here are skewed in my opinon. There are instances where someone dies with covid, not from covid and those are added to the numbers everyday.
Perhaps many died with rather than because of Covid. But around the world we all saw televised pictures of refrigerator trucks in New York City which shocked us all, then the US numbers kept rising and rising and rising. And Covid stats don’t just come from America. There was also the horror of mainland Europe, the UK, Russia, India, Brazil etc.

But the point concerned vaccine hesitancy. Are you suggesting the vaccines don’t work or can have serious side effects?

I am not pro government simply a pragmatist. I am double vaccinated and will get the booster when I am advised to. How many billions have now received Covid vaccines around the world and what evidence is there of serious side effects? I am not the least bit concerned. Plus as someone who still rides quite a lot I haven’t noticed any loss of strength or power since vaccination?
 
Just checked the UK stats and I think you heard correctly. But UK deaths and hospitalisations suggest it’s nothing to be worried about - like everywhere else with surging post lockdown omicron cases.

I think it’s about time everyone ignored case counts and focused on hospitalisations.

I completely agree with this.

Now in the US, the Delta variant is still the dominate variant.
 
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I completely agree with this.

Now in the US, the Delta variant is still the dominate variant.
Thanks, yes I should have mentioned surging omicron or Delta variants. With high levels of vaccination I don’t see hospitals flooded as we open up post vaccination and the overwhelming majority who continue to be admitted or suffer serious symptoms are unvaccinated. Not that we read this in the MSM.:mad:

How many have now received the Covid vaccines? It must now be billions? I get that effects sometimes are not evident for months or years later but that is a risk I am happy to take.
 
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Thanks, yes I should have mentioned surging omicron or Delta variants. With high levels of vaccination I don’t see hospitals flooded as we open up post vaccination and the overwhelming majority who continue to be admitted or suffer serious symptoms are unvaccinated. Not that we read this in the MSM.:mad:

How many have now received the Covid vaccines? It must now be billions? I get that effects sometimes are not evident for months or years later but that is a risk I am happy to take.
and you're really not worried about the international conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids?
 
I haven't suggested to anyone that they not take the vaccines. I just posted a fact that the clinical trials didn't evaluate long-term safety because they were cut short & the vaccines were rushed to the public under the emergency authorization clause. Most of my friends & relatives are vaccinated and they will out of curiosity from time to time ask why I'm hesitant and I respond with two answers; I have post-infection immunity & I'm concerned about the lack of long-term safety data. None of them fly off the handle handle & accuse me of advocating for people not to take the vaccine. Lol

Remember the video I posted on ER physician Dr. Tommy Redwood who was fired from Piedmont Hospital in Atlanta for refusing the vaccine? He's says he's not anti-vaxx because he's taken both the flu & hepatitis vaccines. He also acknowledges that the vast majority of patients in the hospitals with Covid are unvaccinated. However, he points out the that vaccine isn't for him - he says he is far less likely to get serious ill from Covid because he doesn't have any comorbidities like most of the Covid patients he sees. Redwood further adds that the risk of any possible unknown side-effects from the vaccine outweighs any proven benefit - now that the vaccines require boosters.

So, clearly Redwood is concerned about possible safety issues, and doing his own benefit/risk analysis feels the risks outweigh the benefits for him. Does this make Redwood anti-vaxx & advocating for people not to take the vaccine? I don't think so. Btw, Redwood got a job offer from an Alabama hospital that feels his experience as a seasoned ER physician is far more valuable than the politics of him refusing these mandates forced on health care workers.

View: https://youtu.be/VTfO0GYMbCU
I would say that is a distinction without a difference. The whole, "I am not saying not to take the vaccine, just that the vaccine may make you sterile or kill you", argument is not persuasive.

"Long term complications" is an antivaxxer trope and it is sad to see it repeated uncritically twice already today. No, we don't need 30 years to determine if the vaccine is safe.

and you're really not worried about the international conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids?
I didn't come up with this observation, but someone made a great point that so many Americans in 2021 would watch Dr. Strangelove and think that Ripper was the protagonist.
 
Just checked the UK stats and I think you heard correctly. But UK deaths and hospitalisations suggest it’s nothing to be worried about - like everywhere else with surging post lockdown omicron cases.

I think it’s about time everyone ignored case counts and focused on hospitalisations.
I agree that health care/death numbers should be the focus, but we can't 'ignore' case numbers IMO.

EDIT: We still look at flu case numbers for example right?
 
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Personally there are still things I won't do such as going to indoor sports events or movie theaters. However, in my case this is because my husband is going through Chemo and thus is immune compromised. The good news is he had a scan before his last Chemo treatment and it showed that the Chemo is doing a very good job and they do think by the time we get to his last treatment sometime in March they will be able to declare him cancer free. But until we get there he is immune compromised. So we have to me more careful.

I'm still hoping that this new Omnicron (still think it should be Unicron instead) continues to be a less deadly variant.
 
I would say that is a distinction without a difference. The whole, "I am not saying not to take the vaccine, just that the vaccine may make you sterile or kill you", argument is not persuasive.

"Long term complications" is an antivaxxer trope and it is sad to see it repeated uncritically twice already today. No, we don't need 30 years to determine if the vaccine is safe.
IDK, is Redwood "anti-vaxx" by your definition? He clearly states in the interview that he's not against the vaccines but further explains the risk of any possible unknown side-effects from the vaccine outweighs any proven benefit. So, he's basically saying from his standpoint the risks of any long-term safety issues outweigh the benefits of the vaccine. So, why is it if the "vaccine hesitant" use their own personal benefit/risk analysis to justify not taking the vaccine they generally get vilified as "anti-vaxxers" from dogmatic people such as you?
 
Very interesting information coming out of South Africa:


"High levels of previous exposure to three previous waves of coronavirus infection in South Africa may explain the relatively low levels of hospitalisation and severe disease in the current outbreak of the Omicron variant, rather than the variant itself being less virulent."
 
Perhaps many died with rather than because of Covid. But around the world we all saw televised pictures of refrigerator trucks in New York City which shocked us all, then the US numbers kept rising and rising and rising. And Covid stats don’t just come from America. There was also the horror of mainland Europe, the UK, Russia, India, Brazil etc.

But the point concerned vaccine hesitancy. Are you suggesting the vaccines don’t work or can have serious side effects?

I am not pro government simply a pragmatist. I am double vaccinated and will get the booster when I am advised to. How many billions have now received Covid vaccines around the world and what evidence is there of serious side effects? I am not the least bit concerned. Plus as someone who still rides quite a lot I haven’t noticed any loss of strength or power since vaccination?
I'm not anti vax at all. I have had the vax and booster. I was just making a point that these body counts that are used are not accurate. I feel sometimes they are skewed so much to produce more fear. The vax would be accepted more if everyone was left to getting the vax on our own and getting on with life.
 
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IDK, is Redwood "anti-vaxx" by your definition? He clearly states in the interview that he's not against the vaccines but further explains the risk of any possible unknown side-effects from the vaccine outweighs any proven benefit. So, he's basically saying from his standpoint the risks of any long-term safety issues outweigh the benefits of the vaccine. So, why is it if the "vaccine hesitant" use their own personal benefit/risk analysis to justify not taking the vaccine they generally get vilified as "anti-vaxxers" from dogmatic people such as you?
Did I call him an anti-vaxxer? No, I did not. But one of the great successes of anti-vax movement is how effectively their talking points infiltrate general discourse.
Very interesting information coming out of South Africa:


"High levels of previous exposure to three previous waves of coronavirus infection in South Africa may explain the relatively low levels of hospitalisation and severe disease in the current outbreak of the Omicron variant, rather than the variant itself being less virulent."
Isn't this exactly what I have been saying?
The vax would be accepted more if everyone was left to getting the vax on our own and getting on with life.
Lol. Like the flu vaccine? Truly the fault for people not getting the vaccine are the people trying to get them to take it. (Sarcasm)

When does personal responsibility enter the conversation?
 
Did I call him an anti-vaxxer? No, I did not. But one of the great successes of anti-vax movement is how effectively their talking points infiltrate general discourse.
Isn't this exactly what I have been saying?
Lol. Like the flu vaccine? Truly the fault for people not getting the vaccine are the people trying to get them to take it. (Sarcasm)

When does personal responsibility enter the conversation?
It is the way some people are "trying" to get the other to take it. Also I wonder why not focus just as much on treatment of the virus? Sarcasm indeed.
 
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