Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[Nomad]

EXCLUSIVE: Republican Senator Dr. Roger Marshall says White House is being "dishonest" about using natural immunity to fight Omicron and the U.S. vaccine push is "stuck"

Sen Marshall says White House being 'dishonest' about natural immunity

GOP Sen. Roger Marshall accused the White House of 'dishonesty' over the protection a previous Covid-19 infection offers against the virus.

www.google.com

When I first read this I thought it was a typo; when has the WH ever been "dishonest" with the American people? LOL.

 

[Ultrairon]

Let me know when Pfizer, Merck or whomever else is working on anti-viral pills for it actually gets one approved. (I mentioned those two companies as they are the only ones I know for sure who are working on treatments in pill form for it.)

I think they are approved for some already. Its not on the "media". Because it does not fit the news panic.

Merck and Ridgeback’s Molnupiravir, an Oral COVID-19 Antiviral Medicine, Receives First Authorization in the World - Merck.com

U.K.’s Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency Authorizes Molnupiravir for the Treatment of Mild-to-Moderate COVID-19 in Adults With a Positive SARS-CoV-2 Diagnostic Test and Who Have at Least One Risk Factor for Developing Severe Illness Applications Remain Under Review by Other...

www.merck.com

 

[djpbaltimore]

I agree that health care/death numbers should be the focus, but we can't 'ignore' case numbers IMO.

EDIT: We still look at flu case numbers for example right?

Hospitalization lags so much. Once you are in trouble by that metric, the next 2 weeks are already baked in. Case #s are not all important, but we still need to be aggressive at testing.

It is the way some people are "trying" to get the other to take it. Also I wonder why not focus just as much on treatment of the virus? Sarcasm indeed.

One huge problem is that treatments only work if you are diagnosed early. If you show up at the hospital unable to breathe, pills aren't likely to help much. And people not taking the vaccine are probably not likely to test it they feel sick either. Why do you think so many people are still dying in the US?

I think they are approved for some already. Its not on the "media". Because it does not fit the news panic.

Merck and Ridgeback’s Molnupiravir, an Oral COVID-19 Antiviral Medicine, Receives First Authorization in the World - Merck.com

U.K.’s Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency Authorizes Molnupiravir for the Treatment of Mild-to-Moderate COVID-19 in Adults With a Positive SARS-CoV-2 Diagnostic Test and Who Have at Least One Risk Factor for Developing Severe Illness Applications Remain Under Review by Other...

www.merck.com

The bottom line is pretty poor for this one. It does help, but it is pretty marginal. Getting a vaccine is much more effective.

 

[Ultrairon]

Hospitalization lags so much. Once you are in trouble by that metric, the next 2 weeks are already baked in. Case #s are not all important, but we still need to be aggressive at testing.
One huge problem is that treatments only work if you are diagnosed early. If you show up at the hospital unable to breathe, pills aren't likely to help much. And people not taking the vaccine are probably not likely to test it they feel sick either. Why do you think so many people are still dying in the US?

The bottom line is pretty poor for this one. It does help, but it is pretty marginal. Getting a vaccine is much more effective.

Yeah a vax is the best but why not promote everything. The way you say it as if you are shrugging off anything else. That is not a good approach at winning over people who do not want the vax. You can be better than that.

Everyone Try not to freak out.

A five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness

Ivermectin, a US Food and Drug Administration-approved anti-parasitic agent, was found to inhibit severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) replication in vitro. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was conducted to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Holy ***.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Yeah a vax is the best but why not promote everything. The way you say it as if you are shrugging off anything else. That is not a good approach at winning over people who do not want the vax. You can be better than that.

Everyone Try not to freak out.

A five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness

Ivermectin, a US Food and Drug Administration-approved anti-parasitic agent, was found to inhibit severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) replication in vitro. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was conducted to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Holy ***.

Would you like me to re-up all the times I talked about treatments like Remdesevir?

From the article. "...the study sample was too small to draw any solid conclusions... "

bigger studies have shown that there is no efficacy. Cherry picking like you are doing is the antithesis of science.

 

[jmdirt]

Let me know when Pfizer, Merck or whomever else is working on anti-viral pills for it actually gets one approved. (I mentioned those two companies as they are the only ones I know for sure who are working on treatments in pill form for it.)

I wonder how far off these are?

 

[Koronin]

I wonder how far off these are?

Wish I knew. Actually wish my friend who works at Merck knew for sure. She doesn't work in that dept she works in a different part of research for them. I really think those will will help once they get approval. I know they are in testing stages. The last I'd heard was they were hoping to submit for some sort of approval (not sure if EUA or full) sometime in the fall or winter. At least Merck has been working on this since early in the outbreak.

 

[Koronin]

It appears crazy anti-vaxxers are not just a US problem.

German police foil ‘anti-vaxxer murder plot’ against state premier

Politicians, media outlets and public institutions received letters against mandatory vaccination measures and included a wrapped chunk of meat, broadcaster ARD reported.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Koronin]

Here's some info on the treatment pill from Pfizer for Covid:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pfizer-says-pill-treat-covid-131555948.html

 

[Mayomaniac]

Here's some info on the treatment pill from Pfizer for Covid:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pfizer-says-pill-treat-covid-131555948.html

Yeah, I've heard similar stuff. It sounds pretty good.

It appears crazy anti-vaxxers are not just a US problem.

German police foil ‘anti-vaxxer murder plot’ against state premier

Politicians, media outlets and public institutions received letters against mandatory vaccination measures and included a wrapped chunk of meat, broadcaster ARD reported.

www.nbcnews.com

It is interesting that in Western and Northern Europe the German speaking areas have clearly the most anit-vaxxers and not vaccinated adults, no idea if it's a bit of a cultural thing with us.

 

[Ultrairon]

Would you like me to re-up all the times I talked about treatments like Remdesevir?

From the article. "...the study sample was too small to draw any solid conclusions... "

bigger studies have shown that there is no efficacy. Cherry picking like you are doing is the antithesis of science.

Ok so nothing else works? I was really surprised that the NIH had anything to do with Ivermectin. I thought it was only a de worming drug for animals.

 

[Unchained]

Ok so nothing else works? I was really surprised that the NIH had anything to do with Ivermectin. I thought it was only a de worming drug for animals.

It's weird how it's always full circle. Love of vaccines, over my dead body,no f-ckin' way anti vax camp,natural immunity,too young to care, moving to the woods, not moving anywhere locked in and hiding under my bed until the virus passes..
And 10,000+ other ways of thinking about Covid..but then full circle, ERs, critical care units,ICU bed space being filled up with new Covid cases..that always was what it was about,no capacity and manpower shortages before the pandemic and there is no solution that is acceptable to half of the 10,000+ points of view. But the problem is still the problem..the age old goes-in-das and goes-out-as..too many people needs something and there is not enough supply..and it doesn't look like there is an appetite for emergency hospital construction and even if physical space was solved, shortages of doctors,nurses and support staff are not solved overnight, and that is an ultra optimistic view, that we all stop arguing..get out the public funds check book and agree on the goals of bigger, widespread hospitals,emergency education for everything medical and then somehow had a huge increase in working age population that want to get training that takes from @2 months to @12years.
vaccine,prophylactic,and oral stable easy to transport and administer meds are part of it..but we always return to straight up people and places shortages.
And we are only on the 3rd or 4th variant..lots of the discussions are like listening to arguments about the best 8speed chain drive train set up, when in the real world, lots are bichin, because they don't have a 13 speed available

 

[BlueRoads]

Yeah, I've heard similar stuff. It sounds pretty good.


It is interesting that in Western and Northern Europe the German speaking areas have clearly the most anit-vaxxers and not vaccinated adults, no idea if it's a bit of a cultural thing with us.

It definitely is; there have been a few studies about that now, one aspect being the strong anthroposophic/ Waldorf/ Steiner tradition. Within Germany two regions are especially "undervaccinated", that's Saxony, where the mistrust of the government is biggest/ far right strongest, and south-west (Baden-Württemberg), where they have the most Waldorf schools.
Anyway, we do not have enough vaccine at the moment... again. Or maybe just not enough BionTech which the German ridiculously trust more than Moderna. Shows that this is all just emotion, emotion.

I did some very light christmas shopping today and am already so annoyed...
For non essential shopping you do now need to be vaccinated/ recovered + for many venues or if you want to buy some churros at the christmas market a fresh negative PCR test. We had forgotten our phones with the vaccination confirmation on it... okay, back home, our fault, didn't take too long... FFP 2 mask all the time in the city, which if you're going in and out of shops is just lovely... plus we then realized we also needed our identity cards to show we are the persons on our vaccination passport... I had mine in my purse, but of course my son didn't have one with him... so he told me what he wanted and I went in... Queues in front of some shops, because the controls take time... Long queues in front of the test center and the booth where you can get your 2Gplus bracelets for the christmas market...
Okay, I know it was our fault to forget the stuff, but this is just definitely too much bureaucracy for me and I'm not in christmas mood, again. I hate amazon, but I guess it's amazon for me this year. Just close all shops already.

 

[Mayomaniac]

It definitely is; there have been a few studies about that now, one aspect being the strong anthroposophic/ Waldorf/ Steiner tradition. Within Germany two regions are especially "undervaccinated", that's Saxony, where the mistrust of the government is biggest/ far right strongest, and south-west (Baden-Württemberg), where they have the most Waldorf schools.
Anyway, we do not have enough vaccine at the moment... again. Or maybe just not enough BionTech which the German ridiculously trust more than Moderna. Shows that this is all just emotion, emotion.

I did some very light christmas shopping today and am already so annoyed...
For non essential shopping you do now need to be vaccinated/ recovered + for many venues or if you want to buy some churros at the christmas market a fresh negative PCR test. We had forgotten our phones with the vaccination confirmation on it... okay, back home, our fault, didn't take too long... FFP 2 mask all the time in the city, which if you're going in and out of shops is just lovely... plus we then realized we also needed our identity cards to show we are the persons on our vaccination passport... I had mine in my purse, but of course my son didn't have one with him... so he told me what he wanted and I went in... Queues in front of some shops, because the controls take time... Long queues in front of the test center and the booth where you can get your 2Gplus bracelets for the christmas market...
Okay, I know it was our fault to forget the stuff, but this is just definitely too much bureaucracy for me and I'm not in christmas mood, again. I hate amazon, but I guess it's amazon for me this year. Just close all shops already.

Yeah, the whole Waldorf thing is also rather big in Südtirol, people in my hometown started a separate Kindergarden for unvaccinated kids over a year ago, before the covid-vaccine was a thing (most of the mothers involved in that stuff actually have some sort of academic degree, but I degress...)

I understand a lot, but the whole vaccinated/recovered + thing is too much for me. By forcing people who are willing to get vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks to still get tested you put a strain on your testing capacity and you risk alienating people who really aren't anti-vax, cause why get vaccinated if you still need to get tested anyway? It's also fun to see how bad Germany and Austria are doing/have been doing despite their obsession with FFP2 masks, that whole thing looks like a big flop to me. If people don't bother covering their noses with normal masks then better masks won't help you. But no, both countries had to act like everything was over during the summer for the 2nd year in a row.

 

[Unchained]

I am curious about the East and West Germany medical capacity. Is there any reporting that says here's how many hospital beds we have and this is how many are available? Is there areas that have unused capacity? I lived near Frankfurt and near Berlin and for anything complicated to semi complicated you needed to seek treatment in a larger city..

I also see were country by country there looks to be different minimum essentials..in the US there appears to be a military hospital model,slightly modified, so you need climate control,but X-Ray,MRI, operating rooms don't look like important components for successful Covid treatment..so from what I have read you can get treatment in a bed,semi private room and transportation of patients to a specialist hospital doesn't look to be a thing.
My place in Mexico is located South of Tijuana - San Diego border and our city is shy of @380,000 w TJ and San Diego both being over 1 million in population,and there doesn't look to be any necessary expertise in the bigger cities causing transfers of the sick..

ER Director says covid trends spell trouble for the holidays

El Paso doctors told CBS4 they are concerned about the coronavirus trends in the borderland, especially with the upcoming holidays. Dr. Ed Michelson, the Emergency Department Chair at Texas Tech Health Sciences Center of El Paso, said hospitals are feeling the strain from rising numbers of...

cbs4local.com

 

[Unchained]

Lots of reporting from US and Mexico news about crisis in So Paso w ICU bed capacity

 

[Ultrairon]

It's weird how it's always full circle. Love of vaccines, over my dead body,no f-ckin' way anti vax camp,natural immunity,too young to care, moving to the woods, not moving anywhere locked in and hiding under my bed until the virus passes..
And 10,000+ other ways of thinking about Covid..but then full circle, ERs, critical care units,ICU bed space being filled up with new Covid cases..that always was what it was about,no capacity and manpower shortages before the pandemic and there is no solution that is acceptable to half of the 10,000+ points of view. But the problem is still the problem..the age old goes-in-das and goes-out-as..too many people needs something and there is not enough supply..and it doesn't look like there is an appetite for emergency hospital construction and even if physical space was solved, shortages of doctors,nurses and support staff are not solved overnight, and that is an ultra optimistic view, that we all stop arguing..get out the public funds check book and agree on the goals of bigger, widespread hospitals,emergency education for everything medical and then somehow had a huge increase in working age population that want to get training that takes from @2 months to @12years.
vaccine,prophylactic,and oral stable easy to transport and administer meds are part of it..but we always return to straight up people and places shortages.
And we are only on the 3rd or 4th variant..lots of the discussions are like listening to arguments about the best 8speed chain drive train set up, when in the real world, lots are bichin, because they don't have a 13 speed available

No idea who you are in a discussion with for vax. The topic of discussion is other treatments for covid itself. There are things being developed and tested. The point made was the NIH is involved with a study in the use of ivermectin. Regardless of the size of this study why would the NIH be involved with it at all if it was just a horse dewormer? You posts does not follow any of that and makes no sense to me so I will ignore.

 

[Nomad]

Covid Ireland: Expert says Omicron variant "could be end of pandemic" and why Ireland has "nothing to fear."

Expert says Omicron variant could be 'end of the pandemic' in Ireland

'Omicron is extremely mild. The rest of the world has nothing to fear'

www.google.com

"Mild, milder, extremely mild. As disease severity increases, the gap with Delta widens. Keep in mind that SA is extremely vulnerable to C-19 with an average IFR(infection fatality ratio) of 0.5%, and 230,000 excess deaths attributable to the virus. The IFR of #Omicron is estimated at 0.053%."

 

[Ultrairon]

Covid Ireland: Expert says Omicron variant "could be end of pandemic" and why Ireland has "nothing to fear."

Expert says Omicron variant could be 'end of the pandemic' in Ireland

'Omicron is extremely mild. The rest of the world has nothing to fear'

www.google.com

"Mild, milder, extremely mild. As disease severity increases, the gap with Delta widens. Keep in mind that SA is extremely vulnerable to C-19 with an average IFR(infection fatality ratio) of 0.5%, and 230,000 excess deaths attributable to the virus. The IFR of #Omicron is estimated at 0.053%."

Good News. I hope so.

 

[Ultrairon]

This is not good.

https://www.fda.gov/media/146304/download

 

[Keram]

Covid Ireland: Expert says Omicron variant "could be end of pandemic" and why Ireland has "nothing to fear."

Expert says Omicron variant could be 'end of the pandemic' in Ireland

'Omicron is extremely mild. The rest of the world has nothing to fear'

www.google.com

"Mild, milder, extremely mild. As disease severity increases, the gap with Delta widens. Keep in mind that SA is extremely vulnerable to C-19 with an average IFR(infection fatality ratio) of 0.5%, and 230,000 excess deaths attributable to the virus. The IFR of #Omicron is estimated at 0.053%."

I hope this is not some hoax. Would be great. I really want my pre pandemic life back. Hang out with friends, travel, meet my family etc. Hate to have second christmas in a row in a pandemic mode.

 

[Koronin]

It definitely is; there have been a few studies about that now, one aspect being the strong anthroposophic/ Waldorf/ Steiner tradition. Within Germany two regions are especially "undervaccinated", that's Saxony, where the mistrust of the government is biggest/ far right strongest, and south-west (Baden-Württemberg), where they have the most Waldorf schools.
Anyway, we do not have enough vaccine at the moment... again. Or maybe just not enough BionTech which the German ridiculously trust more than Moderna. Shows that this is all just emotion, emotion.

I did some very light christmas shopping today and am already so annoyed...
For non essential shopping you do now need to be vaccinated/ recovered + for many venues or if you want to buy some churros at the christmas market a fresh negative PCR test. We had forgotten our phones with the vaccination confirmation on it... okay, back home, our fault, didn't take too long... FFP 2 mask all the time in the city, which if you're going in and out of shops is just lovely... plus we then realized we also needed our identity cards to show we are the persons on our vaccination passport... I had mine in my purse, but of course my son didn't have one with him... so he told me what he wanted and I went in... Queues in front of some shops, because the controls take time... Long queues in front of the test center and the booth where you can get your 2Gplus bracelets for the christmas market...
Okay, I know it was our fault to forget the stuff, but this is just definitely too much bureaucracy for me and I'm not in christmas mood, again. I hate amazon, but I guess it's amazon for me this year. Just close all shops already.

Kids have ID cards over there? I had no idea.

Over here about half the states that had mask mandates aren't even bothering with that at this point again. Where my house is you're lucky if half the people in the store have masks on (forget vaccines, I think the vaccination rate there is around 50%. Where I am right now (Raleigh/Durham, which is where I'm moving eventually) people in stores are at least 50% or higher and the vax rate is closert to 65-70%. Since graduated college I've either worked retail/restaurants/or as a vendor (I actually like being a vendor) but am rarely in any kind of holiday mood.

Thanks for the explanation on basically why the two areas in Germany with the lower vax rates are the way they are.

 

[djpbaltimore]

The point made was the NIH is involved with a study in the use of ivermectin. Regardless of the size of this study why would the NIH be involved with it at all if it was just a horse dewormer?

Why wouldn't they be involved? There were preclinical results in Cell culture that suggested it might have potency against the virus. The main problem is that you really can't achieve a therapeutic concentration of drug in humans. NIH also funded a lot of the hydroxychloroquine studies last year and many other things that never see the light of day.

 

[movingtarget]

It appears crazy anti-vaxxers are not just a US problem.

German police foil ‘anti-vaxxer murder plot’ against state premier

Politicians, media outlets and public institutions received letters against mandatory vaccination measures and included a wrapped chunk of meat, broadcaster ARD reported.

www.nbcnews.com

Nurses, doctors politicians and their families getting threats sometimes resorting to physical abuse, testing stations being vandalized. Its universal now, even people wearing masks getting threats sometimes. Such is the world we live in and it never was just the USA, plenty of idiocy to go round..............

 

[Ultrairon]

Why wouldn't they be involved? There were preclinical results in Cell culture that suggested it might have potency against the virus. The main problem is that you really can't achieve a therapeutic concentration of drug in humans. NIH also funded a lot of the hydroxychloroquine studies last year and many other things that never see the light of day.

I feel like your negativity is showing. All of the the above and below should have been the approach from the beginning. My point stands. You can't argue with facts and in this case if it was just a animal dewormer why bother? Answer is that it never was just a dewormer, yet many tried to pretend it was. Same with monoclonal antibodies, why ration why discount and not provide better press? Answer is complicated right?

Death dealer spoke today on the future of deaths with the unvaxed. It is so disapointing he would do such a thing.