Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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Ultrairon

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jmdirt said:
Disappointing that you are this fake. Not one real answer from you.
Click to expand...
Let me be clear. I see a twitter link and I do not take it seriously. Made that mistake in the past and will not be fooled again. Nature as in Mother Nature is real but its not running a twitter account.

Someone who claims to represent Nature. No way will I ever just believe it from twitter. The journal is worth a read but I am not going through no trash link on twitter.

Just post up a link to their site instead of using a crap social platform.

Scientific Reports

Scientific Reports publishes original research in all areas of the natural and clinical sciences. We believe that if your research is scientifically valid and ...
www.nature.com www.nature.com
 
Koronin

Koronin

Oct 14, 2017
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Ultrairon said:
Not a Journal. I am talking about Nature out in the real world. Mother Nature. Not humans but the freaking earth around us.

Blue check is subjective to the platform correct. Anyone can decide that garbage. Twitter is a crap-shoot same as facebook myspace take your pick.
Silly to say twitter is a undisputed source. To believe everything one reads on the internet.

Those South African case numbers still trending down. No bump.

Long covid almost has a made up disability angle built into it. How do you really disprove or prove it. Its like back pain.
Click to expand...

I personally know two people who were diagnosed with long Covid. Now in BOTH cases once they got the vaccine the symptoms of long covid eased and within weeks disappeared. At least the long Covid symptoms they both experienced were 100% able to be diagnosed by either doctors at a clinic/office or a hospital. The symptoms are virtually the same as Covid its self. They are physical issues that were not present before having a confirmed case of Covid and were there still there after multiple negative covid tests. Also those who get Covid after being vaccinated have an even smaller likelihood of getting long covid than those who get Covid without being vaccinated. The two people I know who had long covid had Covid before any vaccine was available to anyone except those in trials.

Yes I know this is anecdotal evidence and nothing more than that.
 
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movingtarget

Aug 5, 2009
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Unchained said:
Ultra stands out here,but overall in the United States,his views are widely held and observed,acted upon to a degree. The issue going forward through Covid and the next few health and public safety crisis is a point that Ultrairon repeats often, w conviction..he says he doesn't trust information,information sources. This is widespread and now worldwide..often to the degree of debate and disagreement about time of day,if the sky is blue or night or day degree.
When the federal government adopted a completely new,never before seen or tested technique of information accumulation and distribution at the town level,during declared war..this was bound to happen ..in the past newspaper,magazine,TV,radio allowed some control of information quality,but w 100's of thousands of sources for data..the future surely looks bleak in the US for things as basic as tornado,storm,fire early warnings..w millions in the population hearing "wolf" being cried at some level. More amazing still, in a show me the money moment,even when shown dead bodies they deny their existence..don't even know where public health officials begin with this population that basically are saying I don't,will never believe anything you say or do.
I don't know a solution for this
Where do people go for accurate information?
Click to expand...
The early days of the internet as a shiny new toy are long gone. If you don't trust a certain amount of the email you receive, as you shouldn't then you start to question many things including government information.. I think a lot of people now cherrypick the information they are being fed and even when they accept it, doubts still linger.Even if you look solely at the vaccine debate. it seems that quite a few people eventually were vaxxed but had real doubts about the technology and the side affects. Others are happy to take advice from scientists but often the waters get muddied by politicians who obviously have no idea what they are talking about or who make statements that just add to the doubts instead of helping the debate. There is no straightforward solution to filtering the truth or facts and as we have seen, some strident critics of vaccinations can only admit their mistakes at death's door but even that can be helpful to other doubters. Thankfully commonsense is not extinct just yet but it does take a battering every day and a certain amount of doubt is normal. It's not like pandemics are common events so most people fumble along and hope the government directives are the right decisions Even people in the medical community don't claim to have all the answers. Where it gets dangerous is when a vaccination debate is seen as part of a much larger so called conspiracy and some people become more and more receptive to radical thinking.
 
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Ultrairon

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Koronin said:
I personally know two people who were diagnosed with long Covid. Now in BOTH cases once they got the vaccine the symptoms of long covid eased and within weeks disappeared. At least the long Covid symptoms they both experienced were 100% able to be diagnosed by either doctors at a clinic/office or a hospital. The symptoms are virtually the same as Covid its self. They are physical issues that were not present before having a confirmed case of Covid and were there still there after multiple negative covid tests. Also those who get Covid after being vaccinated have an even smaller likelihood of getting long covid than those who get Covid without being vaccinated. The two people I know who had long covid had Covid before any vaccine was available to anyone except those in trials.

Yes I know this is anecdotal evidence and nothing more than that.
Click to expand...
I respect the anecdotal evidence. I was just pointing out that long covid can be abused.
 
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Ultrairon

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movingtarget said:
The early days of the internet as a shiny new toy are long gone. If you don't trust a certain amount of the email you receive, as you shouldn't then you start to question many things including government information.. I think a lot of people now cherrypick the information they are being fed and even when they accept it, doubts still linger.Even if you look solely at the vaccine debate. it seems that quite a few people eventually were vaxxed but had real doubts about the technology and the side affects. Others are happy to take advice from scientists but often the waters get muddied by politicians who obviously have no idea what they are talking about or who make statements that just add to the doubts instead of helping the debate. There is no straightforward solution to filtering the truth or facts and as we have seen, some strident critics of vaccinations can only admit their mistakes at death's door but even that can be helpful to other doubters. Thankfully commonsense is not extinct just yet but it does take a battering every day and a certain amount of doubt is normal. It's not like pandemics are common events so must people fumble along and hope the government directives are the right decisions Even people in the medical community don't claim to have all the answers. Where it gets dangerous is when a vaccination debate is seen as part of a much larger so called conspiracy and some people become more and more receptive to radical thinking.
Click to expand...
We can all still visit the source of the information and not go through some link on social media.

I really have a hard time accepting anything on social media. I am not talking about or even discussing a vax conspiracy.
 
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Ultrairon

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Unchained said:
Ultra stands out here,but overall in the United States,his views are widely held and observed,acted upon to a degree. The issue going forward through Covid and the next few health and public safety crisis is a point that Ultrairon repeats often, w conviction..he says he doesn't trust information,information sources. This is widespread and now worldwide..often to the degree of debate and disagreement about time of day,if the sky is blue or night or day degree.
When the federal government adopted a completely new,never before seen or tested technique of information accumulation and distribution at the town level,during declared war..this was bound to happen ..in the past newspaper,magazine,TV,radio allowed some control of information quality,but w 100's of thousands of sources for data..the future surely looks bleak in the US for things as basic as tornado,storm,fire early warnings..w millions in the population hearing "wolf" being cried at some level. More amazing still, in a show me the money moment,even when shown dead bodies they deny their existence..don't even know where public health officials begin with this population that basically are saying I don't,will never believe anything you say or do.
I don't know a solution for this
Where do people go for accurate information?
Click to expand...
NOT your sources and especially not the example you gave with Bill Gates on anything other than computers. Even that is suspect as in he is a thief and fraud. Steve Jobs from the grave is Shaking his own head at any of this.

Bill Gates advice on Covid should never be taken seriously. Food etc.
 
Koronin

Koronin

Oct 14, 2017
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movingtarget said:
The early days of the internet as a shiny new toy are long gone. If you don't trust a certain amount of the email you receive, as you shouldn't then you start to question many things including government information.. I think a lot of people now cherrypick the information they are being fed and even when they accept it, doubts still linger.Even if you look solely at the vaccine debate. it seems that quite a few people eventually were vaxxed but had real doubts about the technology and the side affects. Others are happy to take advice from scientists but often the waters get muddied by politicians who obviously have no idea what they are talking about or who make statements that just add to the doubts instead of helping the debate. There is no straightforward solution to filtering the truth or facts and as we have seen, some strident critics of vaccinations can only admit their mistakes at death's door but even that can be helpful to other doubters. Thankfully commonsense is not extinct just yet but it does take a battering every day and a certain amount of doubt is normal. It's not like pandemics are common events so must people fumble along and hope the government directives are the right decisions Even people in the medical community don't claim to have all the answers. Where it gets dangerous is when a vaccination debate is seen as part of a much larger so called conspiracy and some people become more and more receptive to radical thinking.
Click to expand...


I have a couple of neighbors who fit into this category. They weren't against them. They actually wanted to get vaxxed, but they wanted to hear from people they knew about side effects before getting them themselves. So when got mine I told them what side effects I had. My mom and sister told me I could tell them what side effects they had (virtually none) and my husband was happy to tell them about his side effects. They originally were thinking of getting the J&J vax, but as they heard more and more people getting Moderna and Pfizer they (entire family) ended up choosing the Pfizer vax. Where I live I know several people who were vax hesitant. They all eventually got vaxxed before the end of last summer.
 
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jmdirt

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djpbaltimore said:
The journal Nature absolutely does run a Twitter account. As does every single scientific journal. The blue check is how you can tell official accounts from troll accounts.



It really isn't the pneumonia that causes the longer term problem. It is the ability of the virus to infect cells of the blood vessels and to effect coagulation pathways in the blood. As Yaco noted, it isn't going to be the norm, but I don't think anyone is surprised about the longer term cardiovascular risks.
Click to expand...
Ultradisingenuous was being what they are by pretending that Nature was nature. Although, I'm not completely sure that they were pretending.
 
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jmdirt

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Cookster15 said:
I am very sceptical of these studies. For example, Tadej Pogacar shows no adverse effects on his cardiovascular capacity as recently as yesterday. I have personally suffered pneumonia 5 years ago and it hasn't affected my cardio output. Yes I know pneumonia isn't Covid but the reason people end up on ventilators and dying with Covid are basically that they succumb to pneumonia symptoms.
Click to expand...
Being skeptical isn't a bad thing, but something that has become more prevalent in the last few years is people letting their 'gut feeling' override facts/data.

For example, (hypothetical) if a study examines 100,000 cases of hospitalized SC2 patients and finds that 52,000 have one or more long COVID symptoms 90 days later, those are documented facts. Even if you feel that the number can't be that high, your 'feeling' doesn't cancel the data. I guess you can question what constitutes long COVID symptoms, and base your argument around that aspect, but that is questioning the medical reporting aspect not the data study.

I searched around a little more last night and most of the data analysis is for people who were hospitalized who now have long COVID because those are reported and easily tracked. As far as those who were not hospitalized it pretty difficult to track it and compile data. There are a lot of small samples of doctors at large medical facilities who are seeing/treating patients who weren't hospitalized, but who now have long COVID, but it will be daunting for whoever tries to compile those. Plus, I'm sure that there are more cases like the one I shared about my friend who works at the VA. She had long COVID for a year, but other than talking with VA docs in passing she never got treatment so she won't show up on any study.
 
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jmdirt

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Cookster15

Cookster15

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jmdirt said:
Being skeptical isn't a bad thing, but something that has become more prevalent in the last few years is people letting their 'gut feeling' override facts/data.

For example, (hypothetical) if a study examines 100,000 cases of hospitalized SC2 patients and finds that 52,000 have one or more long COVID symptoms 90 days later, those are documented facts. Even if you feel that the number can't be that high, your 'feeling' doesn't cancel the data. I guess you can question what constitutes long COVID symptoms, and base your argument around that aspect, but that is questioning the medical reporting aspect not the data study.

I searched around a little more last night and most of the data analysis is for people who were hospitalized who now have long COVID because those are reported and easily tracked. As far as those who were not hospitalized it pretty difficult to track it and compile data. There are a lot of small samples of doctors at large medical facilities who are seeing/treating patients who weren't hospitalized, but who now have long COVID, but it will be daunting for whoever tries to compile those. Plus, I'm sure that there are more cases like the one I shared about my friend who works at the VA. She had long COVID for a year, but other than talking with VA docs in passing she never got treatment so she won't show up on any study.
Click to expand...

If there was an actual study that showed 52,000 of 100,000 ended up with long covid symptoms I would agree except there isn't. More likely 5% or less because I simply don't read about it. Until there is more solid data on the percentage of positive cases who end up with long covid symptoms I am putting this in the "do not lose any sleep" category . Then also consider we add in all the undetected positives which makes that 5% ever smaller again.
 
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jmdirt

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Cookster15 said:
If there was an actual study that showed 52,000 of 100,000 ended up with long covid symptoms I would agree except there isn't. More likely 5% or less because I simply don't read about it. Until there is more solid data on the percentage of positive cases who end up with long covid symptoms I am putting this in the "do not lose any sleep" category . Then also consider we add in all the undetected positives which makes that 5% ever smaller again.
Click to expand...
I clearly put "(hypothetical)" in my post, but the numbers for hospitalized SC2 patients with long COVID are around *50% based on several studies in the USA (not world wide). 5%-10% might end up being about how many people overall end up with LC symptoms. Most undetected positives are likely not to have LC because the cases were mild and gone quickly. No way to add them into the equation though because they are undetected.

As I have stated ever since long COVID hit the radar, I am more concerned about LC than dying from SC2. So while I'm "not losing any sleep" over it, it does concern me.

* When I was trying to find either overall numbers or estimated overall numbers ,one data study was roughly 40,000 out of 80,000. The VA study, which admittedly provides questionable demographics, is 52%. I think that that number will actually increase even if overall numbers drops closer to 5% (from 10%).

EDIT: I'm pretty optimistic that I won't have LC issues, but I'm also realistic enough to know that you never know what can happen with anything.
 
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Unchained

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Ultra I think that you and millions of others have things in the " don't lose any sleep,don't worry about it category that should be in the 911 national emergency category.
obesity,diabetes,hypertension,heart disease all major factors in Covid. All were at emergency response levels before Covid. Age..major factor in poor Covid outcomes. The first obvious response..ok make America younger!!that makes a smile for many. But the issues of Covid need correction,and age is one, health care tied to employment was a catastrophe..and society has numbers that see millions more out of the workforce yearly,by design, simply aging out and retiring. Just like Italy and Spain, not having enough people and people of a certain age range can cause havoc on everyone young and old w dramatic disastrous outcomes if you don't have balance.
So we know what the future population of the United States is going to look like on current path and that population is aging into high risk Covid status on top of all the other ailments..so your basic idea that everyone should calm the @uck down and that everything,everyone was fine this has all been a global over reaction is wrong now and it was wrong before the pandemic. American health,American health care are,were broken, emergency measures are needed now..Covid is only a punctuation on the cluster ph-k of seeing the tsunami coming..
 
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Unchained

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And Ultra as long as I am venting about the preposterous premise you put forward..celebrity saves lives..that's proven..full stop. Much like this pandemic, celebrity,wealth, influence can change behavior. So actors, musicians and wealthy saying messages like " he like me!! Get vaccinated,wear a condom,ect" are undeniably powerful,save lives. And you don't have to look further than social media to see the impact of " influencers "and celebrity based messaging.
As far as the donor class..putting billions into the pandemic never stopped,in the form of donation and investment and everything in between. Had the United States adopted a strategy of do whatever,use whatever it takes to win the war against Covid, that goes into the..only if category. But I am personally grateful to millionaires and billionaires that give time and money to the greater good,regardless of their motives.
The US is starting to really show it's blue hair..I watched folks get asked questions about the dollar value of the video game industry, yearly income of top 1000 YouTube, Tiktok ,Instagram personalities...and age was a huge factor in the answers accuracy..so a future pandemic prevention and alleviation campaign might start a social media instead of newspapers and network television. The actions of influencers,million and billionaires has never been more powerful in American culture..they can save lives in future pandemic events without question
You may not be listening to them,acting on their influence, but many millions more are.
 
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jmdirt

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I want to clarify this statement that I made:
* When I was trying to find either overall numbers or estimated overall numbers ,one data study was roughly 40,000 out of 80,000. The VA study, which admittedly provides questionable demographics, is 52%. I think that that number will actually increase even if overall numbers drops closer to 5% (from 10%).

The data for the people in the study is statistically accurate, but due the demographics of the group (mostly older, white, men) the study may or may not extrapolate well.
 
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dusty red roads

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Not sure if this will get overseas but looks promising:

japantoday.com

Drugmaker Shionogi applies for oral COVID pill approval in Japan

Japanese pharmaceutical firm Shionogi & Co said Friday it has applied for approval of its oral COVID-19 drug, after mid-phase clinical trials showed efficacy in reducing the coronavirus in the body. It is the first such pill developed by a Japanese drugmaker and will be administered to...
japantoday.com japantoday.com
 
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Ultrairon

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Unchained said:
Ultra I think that you and millions of others have things in the " don't lose any sleep,don't worry about it category that should be in the 911 national emergency category.
obesity,diabetes,hypertension,heart disease all major factors in Covid. All were at emergency response levels before Covid. Age..major factor in poor Covid outcomes. The first obvious response..ok make America younger!!that makes a smile for many. But the issues of Covid need correction,and age is one, health care tied to employment was a catastrophe..and society has numbers that see millions more out of the workforce yearly,by design, simply aging out and retiring. Just like Italy and Spain, not having enough people and people of a certain age range can cause havoc on everyone young and old w dramatic disastrous outcomes if you don't have balance.
So we know what the future population of the United States is going to look like on current path and that population is aging into high risk Covid status on top of all the other ailments..so your basic idea that everyone should calm the @uck down and that everything,everyone was fine this has all been a global over reaction is wrong now and it was wrong before the pandemic. American health,American health care are,were broken, emergency measures are needed now..Covid is only a punctuation on the cluster ph-k of seeing the tsunami coming..
Click to expand...
No idea what you are talking about. I think I have said that obesity is the largest problem with American health. Even worse than covid. Something is wrong if you have not read that before.

This pandemic was exploited and is still being exploited. Sorry you are unable to see that. At least you are not spamming twitter links or false inaccurate news stories.
 
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U

Ultrairon

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Unchained said:
And Ultra as long as I am venting about the preposterous premise you put forward..celebrity saves lives..that's proven..full stop. Much like this pandemic, celebrity,wealth, influence can change behavior. So actors, musicians and wealthy saying messages like " he like me!! Get vaccinated,wear a condom,ect" are undeniably powerful,save lives. And you don't have to look further than social media to see the impact of " influencers "and celebrity based messaging.
As far as the donor class..putting billions into the pandemic never stopped,in the form of donation and investment and everything in between. Had the United States adopted a strategy of do whatever,use whatever it takes to win the war against Covid, that goes into the..only if category. But I am personally grateful to millionaires and billionaires that give time and money to the greater good,regardless of their motives.
The US is starting to really show it's blue hair..I watched folks get asked questions about the dollar value of the video game industry, yearly income of top 1000 YouTube, Tiktok ,Instagram personalities...and age was a huge factor in the answers accuracy..so a future pandemic prevention and alleviation campaign might start a social media instead of newspapers and network television. The actions of influencers,million and billionaires has never been more powerful in American culture..they can save lives in future pandemic events without question
You may not be listening to them,acting on their influence, but many millions more are.
Click to expand...
Celebrity save lives?... wrong. How can educated people be influenced by actors.? ACTORS hard for me to believe.
Bill Gates tells you to eat dog crap and you will get more dogs.
 
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