Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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Because they cherry-picked their sample so the dual treatment patients had the lowest viral burden at the onset of the study. Then artificially set criteria so the patients that the dual treatment was ineffective were not included in the final sample. How do you get something like this published? Put it through a small journal that you are the editor of. Its widely ignored because the people who know better realize the game.
...and the company selling it probably still made a fortune within a couple of days. I couldn't find any numbers about the total sales, but Indonesia alone ordered 3 million doses.
 
3 million? Yikes. Maybe the larger trials will show something better, maybe for a particular demo or a more marginal response that a smaller trial would potentially miss. At least Indonesia can use it for Malaria. For other countries, their Lupus and RA patients will have a good supply.

My lab neighbor is working on drug targets for COVID-19 currently. There was some degree of hope that existing drugs could be beneficial and it is definitely worth trying, but there was really no great expectation that these would be 'cures'. It was more likely that we were going to need to bring something new to market, specific to coronaviruses.

Besides pharmacology, passive immunotherapy trials are cranking up in NY. Below is a good example of potential benefit to monoclonal antibodies. Lots of possibilities, but this will take time. Epidemiology is still our best weapon. But it is going to get much worse before it gets better.

View: https://twitter.com/davidrliu/status/1243377007016251400

View: https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1243331459978493953
 
Gov Cuomo is giving his daily press conference. He has some good news out of New York. The doubling of cases has dropped to doubling ever 4 days from every 2 to 2 and half days. So that should show the restrictions are starting to work. He also said that some people in the hospital are recovering and being released to finish recovering at home. So there is some small bits of good news with the bad news coming out of New York.
 
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+ Alice Dreger, bioethicist and author of Galileo’s Middle Finger: “If you need a wake-up call, here it is: My husband was on a large conference call of American med school deans last night. One asked about legal coverage for pulling people off ventilators to give to others more likely to survive. i.e., not being charged with murder. Here we are.”
+
 
Apparently. Somebody tell Cuomo as they started using the cocktail on Tuesday.
No. They haven't. Other than some off-label use. Clinical trial MIGHT start next week. Obviously, it should still go on, but don't expect miracles.
Super trustworthy source of info.
Here were the main findings:

  • One patient developed severe disease. That patient was in the hydroxychloroquine group and stopped receiving it on the fourth day. The authors state that developing severe disease did not appear related to the medication.
  • One week after hospitalization, 86.7% of patients in the experimental group and 93.3% of patients in the usual care group tested negative. This difference was not statistically significant.
  • It took 4 days for half the hydroxychloroquine patients to test negative and 2 days for half the control group to test negative. This difference was not statistically significant.
  • Patients’ temperatures returned to normal at approximately the same rate in both groups.
  • Disease progression in CT images was statistically similar between the groups (33.3% of the hydroxychloroquine group and 46.7% of the usual care group).
  • At two weeks, all patients in both groups tested negative and showed improvement in their symptoms.
  • Short-term diarrhea and abnormal liver function occurred in 26.7% of the hydroxychloroquine group and 20% of the usual care control group.
  • The rate of adverse events (side effects that may or may not be related to the medication) were similar in both groups.
 
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Idaho's Stay at Home Order caused a rush on liquor stores! It was all for naught though because liquor stores have been deemed essential and will remain open. You might ask how liquor stores are essential:
1- liquor is revenue for the state when much of the revenue is temporarily gone.
2- people with alcohol addiction could require medical service that would place more strain on the system.
3- even people without alcohol addiction might need a way to relax in this stressful time.

The people who stockpiled booze (in four hours many stores were out of 1/2 gallon bottles of most varieties) can get drunk and throw TP at each other! :)
 
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No more ViRuS iN cHiNa..
No one is making that claim. It is endemic everywhere community transmission has occurred. Some countries that have effective testing in place (Not the USA) are containing it through rigorous testing and contact tracing. But it is still there. 100%.

Sad to say, but we have another potential disaster on the high seas thanks to cruise ships.
https://www.businessinsider.com/holland-american-coronavirus-covid-19-zaandam-rotterdam-2020-3
 
670 cases in Turkey ( +311 ) and 9 dead ( +5 ) according to official statements. There are rumours that the real number may be even more.
Day 16 and 5698 cases ( around 2000 new cases today ) and 92 dead ( + 17 ) according to official statements. This is turning out to be even more awful day by day. And to make it worse, the government is trying to open Istanbul Canal and trying to let many convicted people free from jail. ( Two things they weren't brave enough to do normally fearing the backlash-however they are trying to use Corona to their advantage )
EDIT: Day 16, not 14.
 
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In Australia there is emerging evidence that the social distancing laws and closing of our borders is having a big effect on slowing the spread of the virus.

According to the official WHO numbers 3,180 cases and 13 deaths as I write. Daily new cases until March 26th have been +280, +328, +370, +382, +376 = no longer exponential growth.
Australia is a world leader in testing per million, at # 3.
* We have closed the borders and now got the rewards!
* Now the physical distancing, hygiene and the partial lock-down will easily keep the Ro<1.
* When the daily new cases numbers collapse over the next fortnight, the recovering patients numbers will also go up.

If this apparent peak on March 26 is real, our final total is going to be around 7,000 to 8,000 infections with about 50 deaths. In a country opf 26 Million people.

No need to implement gross overkill restrictions such as Belgium is considering such as 50km ride limits.
 
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Day 14 and 5698 cases ( around 2000 new cases today ) and 92 dead ( + 17 ) according to official statements. This is turning out to be even more awful day by day. And to make it worse, the government is trying to open Istanbul Canal and trying to let many convicted people free from jail. ( Two things they weren't brave enough to do normally fearing the backlash-however they are trying to use Corona to their advantage )
And still no city-wide quarantine, because of the awful economy. We have become a laughing stock since 2002, what a joke.
 
No one is making that claim

Actually plenty are repeating China's statistics on virtually stopping the spread of the virus as fact. The official statistics say China's number of cases has flatlined at about 81,000. But how many infected people walked out of Wuhan before the crackdown ? Do these people work in factories? How can you work and not spread this virus? China's factories are back up to speed.
 
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Actually plenty are repeating China's statistics on virtually stopping the spread of the virus as fact. The official statistics say China's number of cases has flatlined at about 81,000. But how many infected people walked out of Wuhan before the crackdown ? Do these people work in factories? How can you work and not spread this virus? China's factories are back up to speed.
Virtually is an important word. Every tally I have seen lists them as having thousands of active cases. That is quite distinct from saying 'no more virus in china'. Do you have evidence people saying that specific claim? I think it will be extremely difficult to go back to normal without the virus flaring up (even in Australia). It will be the job of epidemiologists to keep the case load simmering at a manageable level. As I noted before, it is not going away without a vaccine. And even then I would guess that it becomes something more like Flu with emerging antigen distinct strains.
 
In Austraia there is emerging evidence that the social distancing laws and closing of our borders is having a big effect on slowing the spread of the virus.

According to the official WHO numbers 3,180 cases and 13 deaths as I write. Daily new cases until March 26th have been +280, +328, +370, +382, +376 = no longer exponential growth.
Australia is a world leader in testing per million, at # 3.
* We have closed the borders and now got the rewards!
* Now the physical distancing, hygiene and the partial lock-down will easily keep the Ro<1.
* When the daily new cases numbers collapse over the next fortnight, the recovering patients numbers will also go up.

If this apparent peak on March 26 is real, our final total is going to be around 7,000 to 8,000 infections with about 50 deaths. In a country opf 26 Million people.

No need to implement gross overkill restrictions such as Belgium has on cycling.
What are you talking about? In Belgium, we are still allowed to bike and hike as much as we want, if you leave from home (i.e. not going somewhere by car, then going for a walk).
 
What are you talking about? In Belgium, we are still allowed to bike and hike as much as we want, if you leave from home (i.e. not going somewhere by car, then going for a walk).

Apologies it hasn't happened yet but your politicians seem to be talking about it if this story is accurate ...

 
Virtually is an important word. Every tally I have seen lists them as having thousands of active cases. That is quite distinct from saying 'no more virus in china'. Do you have evidence people saying that specific claim? I think it will be extremely difficult to go back to normal without the virus flaring up (even in Australia). It will be the job of epidemiologists to keep the case load simmering at a manageable level. As I noted before, it is not going away without a vaccine. And even then I would guess that it becomes something more like Flu with emerging antigen distinct strains.
I thought I was clear? I never wrote China has no active cases. The issue is the number of cases is barely rising. Evidence is easy to find just Google the official global case counts. China's has hardly moved for weeks now. As for not going away without a vaccine I'm not sure about that either. Previous pandemics went away without vaccines. The problem is how many people we lose waiting or maybe find what China's secret is.
 
Because they cherry-picked their sample so the dual treatment patients had the lowest viral burden at the onset of the study. Then artificially set criteria so the patients that the dual treatment was ineffective were not included in the final sample. How do you get something like this published? Put it through a small journal that you are the editor of. Its widely ignored because the people who know better realize the game.

Where do you get this from? I don't see any recording of viral burdens in the paper. It's a binary outcome: positive or negative. In the supplementary data, they do list CT values for PCR, with > 35 cycles considered negative. I'm not sure why some values are just listed positive, while others numerically, but if you just consider the CT numbers, the average for both controls and experimentals is roughly 25.

If you're going to bring cherry-picking into the argument, it should also be noted that the experimental group a) had fewer asymptomatics; b) more lower respiratory infections; and c) was older on average.

Just to be clear, I'm not pushing this drug. But this study is typical of many publications that appear during a medically urgent situation, when for sake of time, the usual more rigorous standards are relaxed. The Chinese study that was later used as evidence against HCQ really wasn't much better. As long as the drugs have known uses, IOW, have already been tested for safety, there isn't a lot to lose by trying them. (Except, it seems, if someone gets confused by the name of the drug).
 
Good read. But. True data may not exist for months? Year? Years? Ever? though. Modeling can only tell us so much because the 'modern' world has never seen this type of 'shut down'. When this 'ends' if the death count is relatively low many will say that we over reacted, but we won't really know because maybe the reaction is why the death count is low(er). If the death count is relatively high many will claim that the reaction didn't help, but we won't really know because maybe it would have been X times worse. Once you add in a factor(s), collecting/concluding valid data about how it would have been without those factors is a math game (factors like social distancing, closing public things, lock downs...).

Not directly related, but data/stats none the less: I understand sensationalized news, but the daily infected count, and death count are emotionally exhausting. Can you image if we had a running count of flu/cold deaths each year? Auto deaths each year? Cancer deaths each year? That would make those a much more taxing toll on our mental health as well.

*Please note that I'm not comparing flu/cold/auto/cancer deaths to C19, I'm comparing the way that they are reported on an hourly basis.
 
Good read. But. True data may not exist for months? Year? Years? Ever? though. Modeling can only tell us so much because the 'modern' world has never seen this type of 'shut down'. When this 'ends' if the death count is relatively low many will say that we over reacted, but we won't really know because maybe the reaction is why the death count is low(er). If the death count is relatively high many will claim that the reaction didn't help, but we won't really know because maybe it would have been X times worse. Once you add in a factor(s), collecting/concluding valid data about how it would have been without those factors is a math game (factors like social distancing, closing public things, lock downs...).

Not directly related, but data/stats none the less: I understand sensationalized news, but the daily infected count, and death count are emotionally exhausting. Can you image if we had a running count of flu/cold deaths each year? Auto deaths each year? Cancer deaths each year? That would make those a much more taxing toll on our mental health as well.

*Please note that I'm not comparing flu/cold/auto/cancer deaths to C19, I'm comparing the way that they are reported on an hourly basis.

Your ramblings are good. Keep them up, and keep sharing them. I already did most of mine many pages ago lol.

Because humans die regularly, and because the elderly especially die regularly, it was difficult to gauge - particularly in the earlier stages of this crisis - just how much of an impact in terms of taking people before their time (and criticially how much before their time) the corona virus was having. I for one try not to get too emotionally involved in the 'numbers game'. Looking up random death stats from Australia in 2017, and 290 people aged 75 or over died each day, and we only have a population of 24 million.

So in Italy roughly 725 elderly die each day, or perhaps more, because they have an ageing population.

Nevertheless, we have seen some of the serious levels of corona virus in Italy, with 'average' deaths to the elderly per day being reached JUST by corona virus. Does that mean 900 elderly died overall? 1100? 1300? How many 'extra' people is the corona virus actually killing?

We will find out more when we see 2020 death statistics vs. 2019 for example.

As I have also mentioned previously, it isn't only a question of how many days/years that people have stolen from them by this virus, but it is the pain during death. I personally would much prefer to die of old age in my sleep then I would by struggling to breathe until I could no longer.....life is about the attempt to increase pleasure and limit pain.

However, pain is of course increasing due to economic hardship, and over time there will be an increase in suicides, general violence.

And where do we draw the line? Why do we not create any social restrictions at all during a normal flu season, yet create enormous social restrictions during the corona virus? If 500,000 people potentially die due to the corona virus do we care and do everything in our power to stop that, but if 50,000 people die due to a standard flu season we say "Sorry, that's too bad Grandma; I wasn't going to give up my sports and concerts just so that I might not pass on the flu to you". Both of these examples are quite extreme, and that is sort of my point. Where is the middle ground?