Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[Alpe d'Huez]

Hey - People need to take personal responsibility - You should be carrying hand sanitizer if you leave home and use it at least every 20 minutes.

I'm not sure about where you are, but where I live every store is out of sanitizer, and toilet paper. If you wish to buy TP, you need to get to the store right when they open. Most stores here are open from about 6-7am for the elderly, who themselves buy the maximum allowed amount of TP and usually sanitizer. Then, the people who have (dangerously, I believe) lined up outside are let in, some stores are restricting numbers, those people go straight to the TP aisle, and buy the maximum allowed, and then to sanitizer and buy it out. Every store is out of both by about 8-9 am, or there's only sandpaper TP left for another hour or so. This has been the case for about two weeks (granted, I haven't gone to every store every morning to test this, but others have said similar). I know a few people have been creative and combined things like aloe, or even lotion, with alcohol and made their own sanitizer. I haven't tried that.

If you go to Amazon, or Walmart.com, Target.com, or any other site you'll see the only TP left is sandpaper brand that will ship to you in about a month, and there is no sanitizer for sale.

I'm curious to other people's experiences?

 

[yaco]

I'm not sure about where you are, but where I live every store is out of sanitizer, and toilet paper. If you wish to buy TP, you need to get to the store right when they open. Most stores here are open from about 6-7am for the elderly, who themselves buy the maximum allowed amount of TP and usually sanitizer. Then, the people who have (dangerously, I believe) lined up outside are let in, some stores are restricting numbers, those people go straight to the TP aisle, and buy the maximum allowed, and then to sanitizer and buy it out. Every store is out of both by about 8-9 am, or there's only sandpaper TP left for another hour or so. This has been the case for about two weeks (granted, I haven't gone to every store every morning to test this, but others have said similar). I know a few people have been creative and combined things like aloe, or even lotion, with alcohol and made their own sanitizer. I haven't tried that.

If you go to Amazon, or Walmart.com, Target.com, or any other site you'll see the only TP left is sandpaper brand that will ship to you in about a month, and there is no sanitizer for sale.

I'm curious to other people's experiences?

I live in Hong Kong where it's common for people to carry hand sanitizer as part of every day life when they are out and about - There was a rush on toilet paper in late January/early February but otherwise there is no issue in supermarkets or the like - Will add that HK doesn't yet have the full scale lockdowns or the breadth of social restrictions like other countries, though they are gradually ramping up.

 

[djpbaltimore]

I'm not sure about where you are, but where I live every store is out of sanitizer, and toilet paper. If you wish to buy TP, you need to get to the store right when they open. Most stores here are open from about 6-7am for the elderly, who themselves buy the maximum allowed amount of TP and usually sanitizer. Then, the people who have (dangerously, I believe) lined up outside are let in, some stores are restricting numbers, those people go straight to the TP aisle, and buy the maximum allowed, and then to sanitizer and buy it out. Every store is out of both by about 8-9 am, or there's only sandpaper TP left for another hour or so. This has been the case for about two weeks (granted, I haven't gone to every store every morning to test this, but others have said similar). I know a few people have been creative and combined things like aloe, or even lotion, with alcohol and made their own sanitizer. I haven't tried that.

If you go to Amazon, or Walmart.com, Target.com, or any other site you'll see the only TP left is sandpaper brand that will ship to you in about a month, and there is no sanitizer for sale.

I'm curious to other people's experiences?

Same. I have not seen sanitizer, TP, or bottled water on shelves since the first rush began last month. I have not tried to go at opening time, but the big store near me is also doing the first hour for seniors only. I don't expect to see hand sanitizer any time in the near future.

 

[Koronin]

I'm not sure about where you are, but where I live every store is out of sanitizer, and toilet paper. If you wish to buy TP, you need to get to the store right when they open. Most stores here are open from about 6-7am for the elderly, who themselves buy the maximum allowed amount of TP and usually sanitizer. Then, the people who have (dangerously, I believe) lined up outside are let in, some stores are restricting numbers, those people go straight to the TP aisle, and buy the maximum allowed, and then to sanitizer and buy it out. Every store is out of both by about 8-9 am, or there's only sandpaper TP left for another hour or so. This has been the case for about two weeks (granted, I haven't gone to every store every morning to test this, but others have said similar). I know a few people have been creative and combined things like aloe, or even lotion, with alcohol and made their own sanitizer. I haven't tried that.

If you go to Amazon, or Walmart.com, Target.com, or any other site you'll see the only TP left is sandpaper brand that will ship to you in about a month, and there is no sanitizer for sale.

I'm curious to other people's experiences?

I'll add to this. The stores are also not getting very much TP, soap or hand sanitizer on their trucks. As I work as a vendor I have gotten to know many of the employees in several local grocery stores and have asked. They are getting maybe 1 pallet of TP on a truck and that won't come close to filling the TP section in these stores plus it's typically only 1 brand they are getting in on a truck. The only TP I've seen in the stores is the flushable wipes. I have seen TP in dollar stores, but typically single ply instead of double or triple ply and not much. Bar soap you can find and liquid soap you can sometimes find. Hand sanitizer and cleaning wipes are impossible to find if you aren't in the store as they are putting those items out. They are not always put out over night. They are put out after they unload the truck. Good luck knowing when the truck will get there. I know what day the truck comes for many of the stores locally but the time changes from week to week. Also grocery stores get multiple trucks per week. Drug stores get 1 truck every two weeks and dollar stores get 1 truck per week.
A lady at a local drug store has been making her own hand sanitizer by mixing aloe and rubbing alcohol. She add 2 or 3 drops of a essential oil for scent. I haven't tried that myself, but she had me try hers and what he is making doesn't dry out your hands nearly as badly as regular sanitizer does.

 

[Jagartrott]

There is a toilet paper sink hole somewhere, that much is clear. I'm sure all the aliens out there, watching their favourite daily reality TV-show "Earth", are finding this hilarious. It actually is.

 

[Koronin]

Same. I have not seen sanitizer, TP, or bottled water on shelves since the first rush began last month. I have not tried to go at opening time, but the big store near me is also doing the first hour for seniors only. I don't expect to see hand sanitizer any time in the near future.

I'd love an explanation on the run on bottled water. That is easy to find here. Shelves are shocked and pallets on sales floors. We'll have the run on that in Aug or Sept when we get a hurricane deciding to come through. Maybe I should buy a case of it now and just be ahead when the hurricane shows up this year.

 

[djpbaltimore]

I'd love an explanation on the run on bottled water. That is easy to find here. Shelves are shocked and pallets on sales floors. We'll have the run on that in Aug or Sept when we get a hurricane deciding to come through. Maybe I should buy a case of it now and just be ahead when the hurricane shows up this year.

So would I. It is the same story here right before it snows 2 inches. One size fits all disaster response. The bread situation has improved though, so it is getting better for some items.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1247199652497240066

View: https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1247199652497240066

 

[Koronin]

So would I. It is the same story here right before it snows 2 inches. One size fits all disaster response. The bread situation has improved though, so it is getting better for some items.

LOL, that has to be it. Yes the bread situation has gotten better as had the pasta situation.

 

[Cookster15]

It is nothing to do with trade - It's all to do with Government's of all persuasions sitting on information that they never want to made public or to be made public at a time of their choosing - You still haven't provided a reason why the Australian Government is still sitting on their modelling data for COVID 19 - And now they are coming under public pressure to release the data.

I did provide a reason. You chose to ignore this valid explanation for your personal opinion which is bolded.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

I'm not sure about where you are, but where I live every store is out of sanitizer, and toilet paper. If you wish to buy TP, you need to get to the store right when they open. Most stores here are open from about 6-7am for the elderly, who themselves buy the maximum allowed amount of TP and usually sanitizer. Then, the people who have (dangerously, I believe) lined up outside are let in, some stores are restricting numbers, those people go straight to the TP aisle, and buy the maximum allowed, and then to sanitizer and buy it out. Every store is out of both by about 8-9 am, or there's only sandpaper TP left for another hour or so. This has been the case for about two weeks (granted, I haven't gone to every store every morning to test this, but others have said similar). I know a few people have been creative and combined things like aloe, or even lotion, with alcohol and made their own sanitizer. I haven't tried that.

If you go to Amazon, or Walmart.com, Target.com, or any other site you'll see the only TP left is sandpaper brand that will ship to you in about a month, and there is no sanitizer for sale.

I'm curious to other people's experiences?

it looks like the stores in California have done a pretty good job in catching up... even for items like TP. Some things are hit and miss but it’s much better here than a few weeks ago.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Interesting first person perspective about the slow return to normalcy of life in Beijing. Very important to keep tabs on this now that we may be nearing an inflection point in our own infection curve.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1247151156821811204

View: https://twitter.com/michaelxpettis/status/1247151156821811204

 

[Cookster15]

Same. I have not seen sanitizer, TP, or bottled water on shelves since the first rush began last month. I have not tried to go at opening time, but the big store near me is also doing the first hour for seniors only. I don't expect to see hand sanitizer any time in the near future.

Same in Australia. Our supermarkets implemented a 1 pack per transaction TP limit on March 8 (also on other affected products). Now 1 month later and still mostly empty shelves as of last night when I last checked? I notice some new brand there but it is several times the price of the normal brand. Typical.

Are they waiting to regrow trees for the paper? I just don't understand why the supply chains take so long to recover now the buying limits are in place? Although reading Chris Gadden's comment, if shelves are restocked in California, perhaps global suppliers are favouring the US market ahead of regions such as Australia? Would not be the first time. Hand sanitiser you can get from the front counter where they sell cigarettes - but only guaranteed if you check before 9am. Other staple foods like oats, rice and pasta slowly being restocked. Crazy times.

 

[Cookster15]

it looks like the stores in California have done a pretty good job in catching up... even for items like TP. Some things are hit and miss but it’s much better here than a few weeks ago.

I have a friend with relatives in Xinjiang who says the local people are still fearful of going out to eat. Fearful the virus could still be around. China's economy will also take a big hit but until they do something about the wet markets it is only a matter of time before the next pandemic reveals itself. 74,000 dead around the world from COVID-19 so far. 71,000 outside of China. Thanks for the apology to the world. But how many before this is actually over? But how many next time? The Spanish flu killed up to 50 million.

So well done China it looks like you (officially) beat COVID-19 if we can believe the statistics but don't pretend you can clean up the next pandemic which is inevitable until something is done about the incubation source. I predict China won't act and instead point to similar markets elsewhere in South East Asia. But that is simply obfuscation. Yes they are playing Russian Roulette.

 

[Koronin]

Same in Australia. Our supermarkets implemented a 1 pack per transaction TP limit on March 8 (also on other affected products). Now 1 month later and still mostly empty shelves as of last night when I last checked? I notice some new brand there but it is several times the price of the normal brand. Typical.

Are they waiting to regrow trees for the paper? I just don't understand why the supply chains take so long to recover now the buying limits are in place? Although reading Chris Gadden's comment, if shelves are restocked in California, perhaps global suppliers are favouring the US market ahead of regions such as Australia? Would not be the first time. Hand sanitiser you can get from the front counter where they sell cigarettes - but only guaranteed if you check before 9am. Other staple foods like oats, rice and pasta slowly being restocked. Crazy times.

I don't know where TP is manufactured for other countries. I don't know if Australia has TP manufacturing there or if it's mostly imported. I saw a report on TP manufacturing in the US and 90% of TP sold in the US is manufactured here. That same report also said that the manufacturers do not want to up production too much because there will be a glut of TP on shelves at some point. I have no idea if the US is a major exporter of TP.

 

[yaco]

I did provide a reason. You chose to ignore this valid explanation for your personal opinion which is bolded.

It doesn't change the fact that Government's and the WHO chose to sit on the Wuhan information, like the Australian Government is doing with their COVID 19 modelling data - This is what all Government's do at different times - At the end of the day, Government's had 2 to 3 months to prepare for COVID 19 and some have done better than others - I'll add that Chinese factories are far from 100% operating capacity due to some migrant workers not returning yet and more importantly the loss of demand from many parts of the world - Despite what you read, China is many months from having a fully functioning economy.

 

[yaco]

I have a friend with relatives in Xinjiang who says the local people are still fearful of going out to eat. Fearful the virus could still be around. China's economy will also take a big hit but until they do something about the wet markets it is only a matter of time before the next pandemic reveals itself. 74,000 dead around the world from COVID-19 so far. 71,000 outside of China. Thanks for the apology to the world. But how many before this is actually over? But how many next time? The Spanish flu killed up to 50 million.

So well done China it looks like you (officially) beat COVID-19 if we can believe the statistics but don't pretend you can clean up the next pandemic which is inevitable until something is done about the incubation source. I predict China won't act and instead point to similar markets elsewhere in South East Asia. But that is simply obfuscation. Yes they are playing Russian Roulette.

You still go on about wet markets being the source of the virus - Scientists have yet to determine the source of the virus and may never reach a definitive conclusion - Go back and research the 1918 Spanish Flu in which there is still no definitive conclusion - About the only certainty is that it didn't originate in Spain.

 

[jmdirt]

Horrifying! From Dr. Mark Levine's Twitter:

"A typical hospital morgue might hold 15 bodies. Those are now all full. So OCME has sent out 80 refrigerated trailers to hospitals around the city. Each trailer can hold 100 bodies. These are now mostly full too. Some hospitals have had to add a 2nd or even a 3rd trailer. "

"It’s not just deaths in hospitals which are up. On an average day before this crisis there were 20-25 deaths at home in NYC. Now in the midst of this pandemic the number is 200-215. Every day. "

"Soon we'll start “temporary interment”. This likely will be done by using a NYC park for burials (yes you read that right). Trenches will be dug for 10 caskets in a line. It will be done in a dignified, orderly--and temporary--manner. But it will be tough for NYers to take. "

"Early on in this crisis we were able to swab people who died at home, and thus got a coronavirus reading. But those days are long gone. We simply don't have the testing capacity for the large numbers dying at home. Now only those few who had a test confirmation before dying are marked as victims of coronavirus on their death certificate. This almost certainly means we are undercounting the total number of victims of this pandemic. "

 

[yaco]

Many pandemics have two or three waves of infections, so this was always a likelihood with Covid 19 - The problem is that countries like Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea which did a good job in handling wave 1 were 'put up in lights' by the media and health experts - What they did well was testing,contact tracing and isolation in wave 1, but wave 2 will be a bigger job, though I have confidence in their ability to handle wave 2 compared to many other countries

 

[Cookster15]

You still go on about wet markets being the source of the virus - Scientists have yet to determine the source of the virus and may never reach a definitive conclusion - Go back and research the 1918 Spanish Flu in which there is still no definitive conclusion - About the only certainty is that it didn't originate in Spain.

You are obfuscating. It obvious. Did the virus originate in Wuhan or not? If you applied the beyond reasonable doubt test, what do you think the outcome would be? Of course it originated in Wuhan's wet markets even the Chinese government itself admitted problems there. The Spanish flu is the Spanish flu. This is COVID-19.

 

[Cookster15]

It doesn't change the fact that Government's and the WHO chose to sit on the Wuhan information, like the Australian Government is doing with their COVID 19 modelling data - This is what all Government's do at different times - At the end of the day, Government's had 2 to 3 months to prepare for COVID 19 and some have done better than others - I'll add that Chinese factories are far from 100% operating capacity due to some migrant workers not returning yet and more importantly the loss of demand from many parts of the world - Despite what you read, China is many months from having a fully functioning economy.

Despite what I read? I read the same statistics as you - the official WHO stats plus I know someone with relatives in China who confimed people are still scared despite what we are being told about life returning to normal. Elsewhere in this thread there are multiple claims by at least one other poster that we are basing our opinions upon western MSM lies. So are they western MSM lies I read this morning claiming life has returned to normal in Wuhan or just maybe this is CCP lies, i.e., propaganda?

 

[yaco]

You are obfuscating. It obvious. Did the virus originate in Wuhan or not? If you applied the beyond reasonable doubt test, what do you think the outcome would be? Of course it originated in Wuhan's wet markets even the Chinese government itself admitted problems there. The Spanish flu is the Spanish flu. This is COVID-19.

The scientific community has given no definitive source of Covid 19 yet - All we know at this stage is the first reported cases were in Wuhan - Whether it originated in Wuhan or a wet market or come from the moon is undetermined - This type of investigation could take 1 to 3 years before reaching a conclusion - I'll wait for the scientific community to reach a conclusion.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Many pandemics have two or three waves of infections, so this was always a likelihood with Covid 19 - The problem is that countries like Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea which did a good job in handling wave 1 were 'put up in lights' by the media and health experts - What they did well was testing,contact tracing and isolation in wave 1, but wave 2 will be a bigger job, though I have confidence in their ability to handle wave 2 compared to many other countries

Was reading earlier that Singapore was shuttering one if its airport terminals for 18 months. Buckle up, I think multiple waves are inevitable. Hopefully the treatments and supply are better for the next round.

Re: Spanish flu. Spain was one of the few nations that was actively reporting on the outbreak. Other nations were silencing the news for morale issues. There are a lot of interesting theories about its origin, but there is no definitive (i.e widely agreed) account. But agree that Spain was not likely the source.

 

[yaco]

Despite what I read? I read the same statistics as you - the official WHO stats plus I know someone with relatives in China who confimed people are still scared despite what we are being told about life returning to normal. Elsewhere in this thread there are multiple claims by at least one other poster that we are basing our opinions upon western MSM lies. So are they western MSM lies I read this morning claiming life has returned to normal in Wuhan or just maybe this is CCP lies, i.e., propaganda?

Where did I post that life has returned to normal in China. My post is clearly stating that life hasn't returned to normal in China - There are still restrictions on movement, some migrant workers haven't returned to their work, unemployment is rising etc. It will be many months before China returns to a fully functioning society.

 

[Cookster15]

Many pandemics have two or three waves of infections, so this was always a likelihood with Covid 19 - The problem is that countries like Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea which did a good job in handling wave 1 were 'put up in lights' by the media and health experts - What they did well was testing,contact tracing and isolation in wave 1, but wave 2 will be a bigger job, though I have confidence in their ability to handle wave 2 compared to many other countries

Australia is doing as well or better than many of those. Testing helps but isn't the key. The key is social isolation.

 

[yaco]

Was reading earlier that Singapore was shuttering one if its airport terminals for 18 months. Buckle up, I think multiple waves are inevitable. Hopefully the treatments and supply are better for the next round.

Re: Spanish flu. Spain was one of the few nations that was actively reporting on the outbreak. Other nations were silencing the news for morale issues. There are a lot of interesting theories about its origin, but there is no definitive (i.e widely agreed) account. But agree that Spain was not likely the source.

Singapore is starting a 4 week lockdown beginning tomorrow - Their second wave has brought many imported infections like in all countries, but they've had increases in community transmissions linked to dormitories of migrant workers.

You are right about the Spanish Flu - As Spain was neutral in WW1 they could freely report about the virus as they weren't fighting a war - The handling of the Spanish Flu could have been better, but at the same time it's hard to get it right when the world is fighting a war.