Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[Castman]

Our unwillingness to do anything meaningful in March and April has made us much less free now.

You're correct. I didn't do anything meaningful in March or April. Virtually every business in my state was shut down.

 

[djpbaltimore]

You're correct. I didn't do anything meaningful in March or April. Virtually every business in my state was shut down.

A patently false statement. Very few businesses were closed in any state. I was still traveling on public transit to work and I was not alone.

Bars were open the weekend before st pattys day. Last I checked that was in March.

 

[yaco]

A patently false statement. Very few businesses were closed in any state. I was still traveling on public transit to work and I was not alone.

Bars were open the weekend before st pattys day. Last I checked that was in March.

Except for China and parts of Northern Asia, nowhere in the world effected restrictions or lockdowns until mid to late March - Even New Zealand didn't start a lockdown to the 23rd of March.

 

[Castman]

A patently false statement. Very few businesses were closed in any state. I was still traveling on public transit to work and I was not alone.

Bars were open the weekend before st pattys day. Last I checked that was in March.

My apologies. The second half of March and all of April. And why don't you tell me what businesses were open in my town after March 16th.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Except for China and parts of Northern Asia, nowhere in the world effected restrictions or lockdowns until mid to late March - Even New Zealand didn't start a lockdown to the 23rd of March.

And yet it was widely known in February that community spread was only a matter of time. Look at the Messonier quote from page 2 of this thread before she was iced for speaking inconvenient truths.

My apologies. The second half of March and all of April. And why don't you tell me what businesses were open in my town after March 16th.

I don't know where you live. Almost all restaurants were doing carryout in my state. Hospitals, grocery, convenience, meat packing, correctional facilities were all open. Public transit was operating. Flights were operating.

 

[jmdirt]

Way to deflect - There has limited discussion about Australia in this forum - I'll be getting the Vaccine ASAP so I can have holidays and be able to travel.

Not deflecting, just saying we all do it.
My employer is going to strongly encourage us to get it, and if that doesn't work they might require it. I won't need encouragement because I want to start moving to pre 2020 'normal'.

 

[Nomad]

RFK, is an anti-VAXer. If people like him had had more power in the past, we'd still be dealing with polio, and a host of other diseases.

C'mon now...he's pro-choice and for safe vaccines but that always gets vilified as the ad nuseam characterization of "anti-vaxer."

It's funny because he has sued the EPA for unethical practices with their collaboration with big oil & gas and since you mentioned "polluted air & water," I'm sure this is okay with you? He's also sued pharma on some medical drug side-effect issues and most people don't seem to be upset with that either. But when he goes after pharma on the vaccines then he becomes ostracized & condemned as an evil "anti-vaxer."

On the these Covid vaccines his primary concern is the rushing of the vaccines without long-term safety data, the fact that the vaccines won't stop transmission, the bias study design, and concern that the FDA is ignoring warnings about the safety of the vaccines:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1328059385340375041

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1328059385340375041

FDA Whitewashes Warnings About Coronavirus Vaccine Trials

FDA officials ignored input from outside experts, including one doctor’s warning of the potential for “a total disaster.”

childrenshealthdefense.org

 

[Nomad]

"Immunity to the Coronavirus May Last Years, New Data Hint"

Weiterleitungshinweis

"The team tracked four components of the immune system: antibodies, B cells that make more antibodies as needed; and two types of T cells that killed other infected cells. The idea was to build a picture of the immune response over time by looking at it's constituents."

"If you just look at only one, you can really be missing the full picture," Dr. Crotty said."

"He and his colleagues found that antibodies were durable, with modest declines at six to eight months, although there was a 200-fold difference in the levels among the participants. T cells showed only a slight, slow decay in the body, while B cells grew in number - an unexpected finding the researchers can't quite explain."

 

[djpbaltimore]

Nomad, do you think the appropriate course of action is to let everybody get infected?

 

[Castman]

Nomad, do you think the appropriate course of action is to let everybody get infected?

I know you asked Nomad and not myself, but isn't that essentially what mass vaccination will accomplish if it doesn't prevent transmission?

 

[Cookster15]

Except for China and parts of Northern Asia, nowhere in the world effected restrictions or lockdowns until mid to late March - Even New Zealand didn't start a lockdown to the 23rd of March.

Australia's lockdowns started about then (March 23). But they worked until the state of Victoria screwed up. Thankfully that disaster is now cleaned up too. Cold comfort for the families of over 800 people and destroyed businesses.

 

[Oldermanish]

C'mon now...he's pro-choice and for safe vaccines but that always gets vilified as the ad nuseam characterization of "anti-vaxer."

It's funny because he has sued the EPA for unethical practices with their collaboration with big oil & gas and since you mentioned "polluted air & water," I'm sure this is okay with you? He's also sued pharma on some medical drug side-effect issues and most people don't seem to be upset with that either. But when he goes after pharma on the vaccines then he becomes ostracized & condemned as an evil "anti-vaxer."

On the these Covid vaccines his primary concern is the rushing of the vaccines without long-term safety data, the fact that the vaccines won't stop transmission, the bias study design, and concern that the FDA is ignoring warnings about the safety of the vaccines:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1328059385340375041

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1328059385340375041

FDA Whitewashes Warnings About Coronavirus Vaccine Trials

FDA officials ignored input from outside experts, including one doctor’s warning of the potential for “a total disaster.”

childrenshealthdefense.org

While he is quoting an older article when the FDA was under pressure from the WH for good news (of course they were spinning); it was also at a time when cooler heads were emphasizing the need for transparency in research so people would be comfortable getting vaccinated. But, of course you only need to follow a little down Kennedy's twitter feed to see (the Garrison cartoon says it all):

Replies




#Impeach46 #NotMyPresidentEver

#ResistTheCoup


@pgasaluki
·
Nov 15

Replying to
@RobertKennedyJr
@US_FDA
employees are a dime a dozen.


@gatesfoundation

 

[Oldermanish]

This is true.

I remember a time when big pharma was despised. Funny that.

They were until someone thought he could fund an effort with tax payer dollars, give it a up-tempo title and claim that he is literally curing the disease as part of a campaign strategy and Big Pharma became his favorite campaign "good news" source. The FDA pressure to embrace corporate news on the matter that Nomad mentions via Kennedy's tweets is part and parcel of the same initiative. Again; we are paying for the cure and commercial producers are in a race to be the first. You can call it Faster than the Speed of Money or Warp Speed. Either way the messaging has been mangled by the WH. Give them credit for something.

 

[djpbaltimore]

RFK jr funded a documentary with Wakefield last year. We don't have to pretend that he is not an anti vaxxer crank. He has done positive things in his life, but his vaccine vendetta has altered his legacy. His covid takes are just as bad.

Here is one for nomad since he seems to trust Crotty.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1332425791854952449

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1332425791854952449

I know you asked Nomad and not myself, but isn't that essentially what mass vaccination will accomplish if it doesn't prevent transmission?

Yes. But that is a big 'if'.

 

[Merckx index]

In the US we have a Constitution. The very first amendment talks about rights that can not be “stripped” from you or any other American.

Except they were and are.

Where does the first amendment say Americans have a right to free movement if they're carrying a contagious disease?

It's funny because he has sued the EPA for unethical practices with their collaboration with big oil & gas and since you mentioned "polluted air & water," I'm sure this is okay with you?

This will probably come as a gigantic shock to most people on internet forums, but I'm capable of simultaneously praising someone for a stand on one issue, and criticizing him for a stand on another issue.

I know you asked Nomad and not myself, but isn't that essentially what mass vaccination will accomplish if it doesn't prevent transmission?

That's only assuming the vaccine doesn't protect people most at risk. If it does, everyone vaccinated will be protected, regardless if they can still transmit to people who aren't vaccinated. You might even say the latter are eligible for a Darwin award.

 

[movingtarget]

Australia's lockdowns started about then (March 23). But they worked until the state of Victoria screwed up. Thankfully that disaster is now cleaned up too. Cold comfort for the families of over 800 people and destroyed businesses.

And the cruise ship debacle in Sydney which was poorly handled and costly. Sending the boat to park at Port Kembla for a few weeks after the event made little sense except to maybe the NSW premier. Many people in Wollongong and the surrounds were none too happy about it and understandably edgy.

 

[movingtarget]

Oxford controversy is the first shot in international battle over vaccine efficiency

Trials will not reveal all the facts on prevention for each new drug – that process could last for years

www.theguardian.com

 

[djpbaltimore]

Victoria just hit a nice milestone.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1332695639226986496

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1332695639226986496

 

[jmdirt]

You are looking at this as a scientist. Your view on the legitimacy of the science is irrelevant because it is far removed from the common experience. The man on the street is not reading peer reviewed publications then forming his options based on those. He is getting his information filtered through a media that has proven it cannot be trusted. The media will use whatever sources align with its agenda. By the time a consensus emerges, battle lines have been drawn and there is no walking back.

The situation we have with covid-19 is a natural result of the media's destruction of its own credibility. It should not be surprising the populace is warring over what to an objective outsider would seem to be easily determined truths. This does not bode well for the future; if during a pandemic people cannot agree on important facts then what hope is there during regular times for evaluating facts needed for basic political decisions. We are so F-ed.

This post popped into my head while doing yardwork. I agree with you that many/most people are too __ (fill in the blank) to be informed, and IMO that's sad. I do think that many/most just want the easiest answer, and even easier solution that's why an anti mask tweet works so well: less than ten words to read and no change to their lives.

 

[Unchained]

I think lots of these freedom, constitution, personal liberty,ect..it all boils down to rape,murder,fire,drunk driving w 10 newborns in the car.
.danger,disease and stupidly don't have property lines or personal space..
If you see someone loading the 10th kid in their car and they are stumbling drunk you intervene..you don't stop at the end of the driveway and yell for help or call the Donut Hole gang down at the police station.you act.
Fire department doesn't ring up the property owner and see if it's ok to put the fire out..it's an acceptable social norm until now that the trucks and crew will do their job..regardless of yard signs or flags flying in front of the place..
If you see someone being harmed or about to you don't do a Zillow search to see if the crime is on public or private property,again for decades,an assumed American norm to do the right thing..
And yes some places don't have Good Samaritan laws so if an old lady trips and falls face first,you can wait 15-20 minutes until the ambulance gets there..that is the law,but not the spirit of the law..
Having herpes or some other thing and passing it around for fun is wrong..so is passing Covid-19 around,knowing or unknowingly..
You are supposed to care about other people..it's not a loss of liberty or against the United States Constitution to show empathy and consideration for your fellow man..
Maybe before Covid tests they should give citizenship tests and people will understand or not,that all this contempt,this political hate without reason,solely on stupidity and emotion is unAmerican and unacceptable..
It's nobody's right to spread a disease

 

[Unchained]

One of every 1250 Americans dead from Covid-19

 

[Swamp Holland]

Government shutdowns and overreach causes more harm than it helps.

In Japan, more people died from suicide last month than from Covid in all of 2020

More people died from suicide in Japan in October than succumbed to Covid-19 all year. And more women are taking their own lives, as they lose part-time work and take on the bulk of family responsibilities at home.

www.cnn.com

 

[yaco]

Australia's lockdowns started about then (March 23). But they worked until the state of Victoria screwed up. Thankfully that disaster is now cleaned up too. Cold comfort for the families of over 800 people and destroyed businesses.

Can you stop victim blaming in your posts - Even months later the virus escaped from Quarantine in Adelaide infecting a small cohort resulting in the implementation of restrictions for a short time, while it escaped twice from quarantine in Sydney - Even Hong Kong's latest wave which is growing escaped from quarantine - Anyway, unless you lived in Melbourne, you life wasn't affected.

 

[yaco]

Hong KOng imposed various restrictions from the end of January - The restrictions have waxed and waned over the last ten months but have never reached the lockdown phase which is probably similar to Japan and South Korea - HK is now entering a fourth wave with cases of 80+ per day which has been allegedly seeded by leaks from quarantine - At the moment the Govt is targetting their restrictions, though they will undoubtedly be ramped up in the next few days - The latest wave is being carried forward by clusters in dance studios and private clubs ( which are frequented by the wealthy ) - The most difficult thing at the moment is that authorities are finding 60% of infected are asymptomatic, though I guess this figure may come down closer to 50% after a week of observation - Finally, HK had a big community testing program in September which in total tested over 30% of the population which ended up about 2.7 million and found a total of 38 positives - So I doubt they could have done much more.

 

[dusty red roads]

Japan can't have lockdown due to its constitution, though they "strongly request" certain restrictions.

However the last 2 weeks we are regularly seeing up to 570 new daily cases in Tokyo alone, so the gvt has requested establishments to stop serving alcohol by 10pm from this weekend - for 3 weeks (I'm sure it'll be extended). They only lifted the 10pm restriction in late October or so. Of course there are places that ignore the request but all the bigger places follow it. There's also been a big travel campaign with travel discounts, so perhaps a combination of both these have been helping the rise of the spread as Hokkaido and a few other areas are also seeing big spikes.

One of my regular music gigs finally restarted mid November after stopping in April, and due to the latest request and rising numbers it's been cancelled again for at least December.

Testing here is still a lot lower than other countries. It seems to be getting a bit easier to get tested, but testing numbers are still a lot lower than other countries. Still lots in their 20s and 30s with it, it doesn't say if they're asymptomatic, but guessing they're following clusters. Serious cases are in the early 60s, but that's been a steady rise from the continual mid 20s we were seeing all through summer and September.