Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

Page 195 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
U

Unchained

Sep 5, 2016
5,205
8,181
23,180
I will never ultimately fault my fellow Americans for showing faith in the office,in the flag and our institutions..For many,faith is a guiding light..but now that obvious lies are revealed..some Taliban looking fundamentalist stance can't work against a virus..
 
  • Like
Reactions: jmdirt
C

Chris Gadsden

BANNED
Oct 28, 2019
131
452
1,230
Unchained said:
California is far too important,too big to let fail..only an American idiot would think so or allow some tight fitting partisan hat to choke off logical thinking..
Click to expand...

Cali is failing. There’s no ‘letting it fail’.. it’s already happening. Only an American idiot would deny facts, science and logical thinking. NY State is also failing. What, thats about 60 million Americans in peril today?

CalPers is now more that a $Trillion under water. That’s one thousand Billion dollars in the Red before we decided to kill off significant portions of our tax base. ‘Letting’ California fail. Sure.
 
Last edited:
D

djpbaltimore

Jun 9, 2014
3,967
1,836
16,680
Small business owners could have used their influence to get federal support for things that need to close temporarily due to Covid. Instead they used their influence to get their businesses to be open and spread the virus far and wide with little care for public health. See what the tavern league did in Wisconsin and what a disaster it caused. This was a choice that was made by business owners. They can cry, but they are now reaping what they sowed IMO.
 
hrotha

hrotha

Jun 10, 2010
19,867
2,218
25,680
Chris Gadsden said:
Exactly. Thank you for that. It’s taken some time but this has been my point from the beginning.
Click to expand...
Your point throughout the months does not come across as "there are other diseases, so we need to keep COVID numbers down so that hospital resources are available for the treatment of those other diseases", but rather as "we shouldn't do anything about COVID because I find that inconvenient and we don't do anything about other diseases either, and no I don't actually want anyone to do more about those other diseases".
djpbaltimore said:
Small business owners could have used their influence to get federal support for things that need to close temporarily due to Covid. Instead they used their influence to get their businesses to be open and spread the virus far and wide with little care for public health. See what the tavern league did in Wisconsin and what a disaster it caused. This was a choice that was made by business owners. They can cry, but they are now reaping what they sowed IMO.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Small business owners can press for whatever they want, but it's the job of the government (state or federal, I have no idea) to go with whatever the best policy would be, juggling conflicting interests. You can't have a government allowing businesses to operate and then blame those businesses for operating exactly as they were legally entitled to. The blame falls on the government.
 
C

Chris Gadsden

BANNED
Oct 28, 2019
131
452
1,230
hrotha said:
Your point throughout the months does not come across as "there are other diseases, so we need to keep COVID numbers down so that hospital resources are available for the treatment of those other diseases", but rather as "we shouldn't do anything about COVID because I find that inconvenient and we don't do anything about other diseases either, and no I don't actually want anyone to do more about those other diseases".
Click to expand...

Nope. Early on we knew who were most at risk. Early on we were asked to bend the curve. That was done.

What fries me is the near zero concern for anything other than Covid. From cancer to mental health the globalist cabal are so hell-bent on the societal reset that they will do incredible long term damage to get the short term re-positioning. In most cases those that will suffer the most are the dis-advantaged, from grade schoolers to minority entrepreneurs.

I stated early on that those in favor of long-term lock-downs are not being effected financially from the response to the pandemic. It was true then and it’s true now. Do you think Tony Fauci gives a damn about the financial devastation caused by what he would do if in charge? I don’t either.

The elites barking the orders aren’t participating in the suffering. Someday Covid will be behind us and the liberties we have all freely given away will also be gone. Constitutional guarantees? What Constitution...
 
C

Chris Gadsden

BANNED
Oct 28, 2019
131
452
1,230
djpbaltimore said:
Small business owners could have used their influence to get federal support for things that need to close temporarily due to Covid. Instead they used their influence to get their businesses to be open and spread the virus far and wide with little care for public health. See what the tavern league did in Wisconsin and what a disaster it caused. This was a choice that was made by business owners. They can cry, but they are now reaping what they sowed IMO.
Click to expand...

Is that the small business union? Us entrepreneurs could just go to our union steward and file a complaint... You mean like that?

I guess it was your turn to post ignorance.
 
M

Merckx index

Jul 27, 2010
5,121
884
19,680
Chris Gadsden said:
I stated early on that those in favor of long-term lock-downs are not being effected financially from the response to the pandemic. It was true then and it’s true now. Do you think Tony Fauci gives a damn about the financial devastation caused by what he would do if in charge? I don’t either.
Click to expand...

Fauci's job is to recommend the steps to be taken to eradicate the virus, or bring it under control. Yes, there is a conflict between these steps and the economy, but that doesn't mean that his estimates of how many people will die if social restrictions aren't kept in place evaporate.

You still haven't proposed any solution to the conflict. No one else has, either. But if you want to be consistent, just bite the bullet, and say we should sacrifice the lives of people who are mostly old, and likely to die fairly soon, anyway, for the sake of the economy. Trying to pretend that we can have it both ways doesn't work. Anything we can do is going to result in a lot of pain

Chris Gadsden said:
Someday Covid will be behind us and the liberties we have all freely given away will also be gone.
Click to expand...

What liberties exactly will be gone? You think lockdowns will continue when the virus is under control? Schools will be closed? Mask mandates? Curfews?

Specify exactly which liberties that we enjoyed before the pandemic will be missing when the pandemic is over. There will be changes, for sure, but some of these might be beneficial, such as more people encouraged to work from home. I think the way that people interact in public will change, but this will probably be driven more by the businesses involved than the government.

E.g., will this be the end of bed-and-breakfast hotels? There's talk about buffets being a bad idea. I really don't think the government is going to outlaw them, but hotels might decide not to have them, driven in large part by fears of many of their customers.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jmdirt
D

djpbaltimore

Jun 9, 2014
3,967
1,836
16,680
Chris Gadsden said:
Is that the small business union? Us entrepreneurs could just go to our union steward and file a complaint... You mean like that?

I guess it was your turn to post ignorance.
Click to expand...
Don't play coy. You know how to exert influence. Again, look what happened with the tavern league in Wisconsin. They wanted no more restrictions on bars and....voila. How do you suppose that gyms are still open most places? But, instead of bringing positive pressure to bring financial relief, people like you claimed covid was a hoax that would go away on November 4. You let the people who shouldve been leading off the hook bigly. This was the choice that you had.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jmdirt
C

Chris Gadsden

BANNED
Oct 28, 2019
131
452
1,230
djpbaltimore said:
Don't play coy. You know how to exert influence. Again, look what happened with the tavern league in Wisconsin. They wanted no more restrictions on bars and....voila. How do you suppose that gyms are still open most places? But, instead of bringing positive pressure to bring financial relief, people like you claimed covid was a hoax that would go away on November 4. You let the people who shouldve been leading off the hook bigly. This was the choice that you had.
Click to expand...

I don’t know sh*t about the Wisconsin tavern league. Sorry.

I posted up thread about a restaurateur in LA shut down again from outside service while studios cater their workers during film production in her parking lot.

You mean exerting influence like that?

If you want to pretend the pandemic hasn’t been used for political gain you go right ahead.
 
Last edited:
C

Chris Gadsden

BANNED
Oct 28, 2019
131
452
1,230
Merckx index said:
Yes, there is a conflict between these steps and the economy, but that doesn't mean that his estimates of how many people will die if social restrictions aren't kept in place evaporate.
Click to expand...

How many will die if the social restriction are kept in place? Still, even now, there’s no acknowledgement. Zero, zip, nada.

What’s the long term effects of the social restrictions? Why... we have no idea.

Merckx index said:
just bite the bullet, and say we should sacrifice the lives of people who are mostly old, and likely to die fairly soon, anyway, for the sake of the economy.
Click to expand...

We know who to protect and how. We know how to modify behaviors in a way that reduces the chances of spread. Sure, we are in a spike. I thought the widespread use of masks would knock that down. I guess not.

Merckx index said:
What liberties exactly will be gone?
Click to expand...

lol, really. You should ask the financially ruined who’s business and workplaces have been crippled. Again, there are two types here. Those that have been wrecked by this and those that have not. Clearly you are fine.

Merckx index said:
Specify exactly which liberties that we enjoyed before the pandemic will be missing when the pandemic is over.
Click to expand...

Well, for one I can imagine if you work for the government you better show your vaccine card if you ever plan on going back to work. Same for those who want to travel. Show your vacc card, take your shoes off and get groped before getting on any form of commercial aircraft.

If the government will shut your business or employment down over a pandemic with somewhere between a 97% and 99.5% recovery rate then what will they do, ya know, next time?
 
M

Merckx index

Jul 27, 2010
5,121
884
19,680
Chris Gadsden said:
We know who to protect and how. We know how to modify behaviors in a way that reduces the chances of spread. Sure, we are in a spike. I thought the widespread use of masks would knock that down. I guess not.
Click to expand...

We know who, we don't know how. Nursing home deaths are as large a proportion of the total as ever. As long as there are a lot of infected people, those infections are going to work their way into the most vulnerable population.

Chris Gadsden said:
lol, really. You should ask the financially ruined who’s business and workplaces have been crippled. Again, there are two types here. Those that have been wrecked by this and those that have not. Clearly you are fine.
Click to expand...

That non sequitur doesn't answer my question. Hurricanes, fires, earthquakes and other natural disasters also severely impact the homes and businesses of many people. Their freedoms are restricted. That restriction does not continue when the disaster is over.

Some estimates indicate about 175,000 restaurants may go out of business this year. But about 100,000 go out of business in a non-pandemic year, and it appears that more new restaurants are emerging to replace them than usual. So while the pandemic has hurt a lot of small businesses, it hasn't been quite as drastic as some are making it out to be. When businesses fail in normal times, free market advocates generally regard this as healthy, survival of the fittest. The pandemic is also forcing changes in businesses which may result in survival of the fittest.

www.theguardian.com

Is Covid to blame for business closures or is it helping new startups? The answer is both | Gene Marks

A report found that more than 100,000 restaurants have closed this year, but another says new business applications are up by 19%
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Chris Gadsden said:
Well, for one I can imagine if you work for the government you better show your vaccine card if you ever plan on going back to work. Same for those who want to travel. Show your vacc card, take your shoes off and get groped before getting on any form of commercial aircraft.
Click to expand...

I was travelling internationally probably before you were born, and I had to get vaccinated for certain diseases before entering certain countries. Maybe they weren't required, but only a fool would take health risks when prevention is so cheap and quick. I don't see why having a C19 vaccine is such a big deal. Children are supposed to have certain vaccinations. Is that a restriction on their freedom? What about the restrictions on freedom caused by polio, tetanus or diphtheria?

Come on, if needing to get a vaccine is your best example of a restriction on freedom, then you really don't have a case. You already posted above that you would get vaccinated as soon as possible.

The TSA groping is more a restriction from the right than from the left. Criticisms of it come from all parts of the political spectrum. I don't recall Trump making any attempt to abolish the agency.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jmdirt
D

djpbaltimore

Jun 9, 2014
3,967
1,836
16,680
Chris Gadsden said:
We know who to protect and how.
Click to expand...

I don't know many times I have to repeat this point.... If we knew how to protect the vulnerable, there would not be 2k deaths a day. Get real, guys....

The U.S. had a 22 year ban on anyone Hiv positive from entering the country. It only was rescinded in 2009. Let's not pretend that vaccination requirements for travel is more onerous to liberty.

Anyway. Atlas out and now Redfield is soon to follow. Rochelle Walensky will be tasked with restoring the credibility of the CDC after a disastrous year.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jmdirt
U

Unchained

Sep 5, 2016
5,205
8,181
23,180
C

Chris Gadsden

BANNED
Oct 28, 2019
131
452
1,230
Merckx index said:
Hurricanes, fires, earthquakes
Click to expand...

Don’t last for multiple years... not to mention there’s risk transference for this. Got pandemic insurance? Neither does anyone else.

Merckx index said:
So while the pandemic has hurt a lot of small businesses, it hasn't been quite as drastic as some are making it out to be. When businesses fail in normal times, free market advocates generally regard this as healthy, survival of the fittest.
Click to expand...

which of course is the same thing as government ordering you shut. Bad decisions, bad ideas, bad management, government orders... it’s all the same. Take your ridiculous couple of sentences and reword it for covid positives and covid deaths.

Merckx index said:
I was travelling internationally probably before you were born,
Click to expand...

That would make you pretty old. My first trip overseas was in 1983. The Netherlands. Where the Dollar to Guilder exchange rate was as spectacular as some of the ladies at the Den Haag red light district.

Merckx index said:
You already posted above that you would get vaccinated as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

Yep. The rules are written by the ruling class. I am not part of that so, yeah, I understand what’s required and why. If I want to get on a plane then guess what i’m going to have to do?
 
C

Chris Gadsden

BANNED
Oct 28, 2019
131
452
1,230
M

Merckx index

Jul 27, 2010
5,121
884
19,680
Chris Gadsden said:
Don’t last for multiple years...Got pandemic insurance? Neither does anyone else.
Click to expand...

The effects of natural disasters frequently do last for many years. Many people still haven't rebuilt the homes destroyed by wildfires in NorCal two years ago. Same with some in Houston following Hurricane Harvey. Even after a decade and a half, NO has not completely recovered from Katrina.

And yes, pandemic insurance is possible. Wimbledon came out pretty well.

Chris Gadsden said:
which of course is the same thing as government ordering you shut. Bad decisions, bad ideas, bad management, government orders... it’s all the same. Take your ridiculous couple of sentences and reword it for covid positives and covid deaths.
Click to expand...

A lot of people sympathetic to your views would reword my sentences with C19. They would say that it hasn't been as bad as many people are making it out to be. Which is true enough if you're young, and don't have any at-risk friends or relatives. It's not the Spanish flu.

Businesses don't fail just because of bad decisions. A lot of it is bad luck, and a lot more of it results from predatory practices by competing businesses. When businesses fail in normal times, free marketeers never shed a tear for them. And their five year failure rate rivals that of some of the most aggressive types of cancer.

But if you do want to go down the bad decision route, people were warning about the likelihood of a pandemic for years. Swine flu and SARS-1 should have been a heads up. A far-sighted business owner could have made plans in case of an emergency shut down. Not only through insurance, but just a sense of how s/he would modify operations. Some companies have adapted, e.g., textile industries that have switched to PPE.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jmdirt
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom