Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[hrotha]

Nope. Early on we knew who were most at risk. Early on we were asked to bend the curve. That was done.

What fries me is the near zero concern for anything other than Covid. From cancer to mental health the globalist cabal are so hell-bent on the societal reset that they will do incredible long term damage to get the short term re-positioning. In most cases those that will suffer the most are the dis-advantaged, from grade schoolers to minority entrepreneurs.

I stated early on that those in favor of long-term lock-downs are not being effected financially from the response to the pandemic. It was true then and it’s true now. Do you think Tony Fauci gives a damn about the financial devastation caused by what he would do if in charge? I don’t either.

The elites barking the orders aren’t participating in the suffering. Someday Covid will be behind us and the liberties we have all freely given away will also be gone. Constitutional guarantees? What Constitution...

Your concern about a "globalist cabal" is a transparent conspiracy theory. The reason the elites aren't financially keeping the plain workers afloat is the deregulation that has swept the western world during the last few decades. The right response to it is not some vague "please care about other things", nor a chimeric "please magically protect those most at risk, even though nobody knows how". The answer is "tax the rich and mobilize the totality of the country's resources to keep small businesses afloat while they're closed for public health reasons through completely radical interventionist reforms to ensure the redistribution of wealth". Do you want that? I do.

 

[djpbaltimore]

I posted up thread about a restaurateur in LA shut down again from outside service while studios cater their workers during film production in her parking lot.

You mean exerting influence like that?

This was discussed this morning on CNN. It should be noted that the restaurant can still operate with takeout and delivery. So, it is not closed in the conventional sense of the word. If you want to complain about having to do your work under new circumstances... get in line. We have all had to make alterations like this due to COVID-19. The film company too. When there was no dining in Maryland, I patronized the restaurants that I normally dined at through delivery service to help them through the tough times. Outside dining is probably safe in places that can still do it. But, restaurants have also been taking advantage of these regulations by creating pseudo-outdoor dining in tents and such in places where it is getting colder. So, I can see why the tightest restrictions might not allow any in-person dining at all.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

Your concern about a "globalist cabal" is a transparent conspiracy theory.

You aren’t paying attention.

deregulation

It’s as if you haven’t a clue how the real world actually works. Why do you suppose Jeff Bezos’ net worth has nearly doubled this year? Do ya think worldwide governments would have had trouble shutting down household delivery service from Amazon? If so, why?

Who benefits in the regulatory environment the globe has been under for most of this year?

 

[Chris Gadsden]

It should be noted that the restaurant can still operate with takeout and delivery.

Not every restaurant is a McDonalds. But, why is it okay for the entertainment industry to utilize the exact product delivery method the restaurateur is banned from using? Could it be the clout of the film industry or is this another case of Covid knowing where and when to attack?

Outside dining is probably safe in places that can still do it.

The restaurant in question is in LA. But outside dining is now done there just because.

So, I can see why the tightest restrictions might not allow any in-person dining at all.

Unless the governor of the most populous State needs a fancy place to dine with 20 of his closest friends.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

Any mention of the foreclosure and bankruptcy figures ?

Yup. The government can’t print money fast enough.

“The residential foreclosure market across the nation continues to contract amid a combination of booming housing market conditions before the current Coronavirus pandemic hit and a moratorium on activity while the country struggles to overcome the crisis," said Ohan Antebian, general manager of RealtyTrac. "Foreclosure starts and completions were already declining rapidly last year because the housing market and the economy were riding so high. Now they're down to lows not seen for at least 15 years as the federal government has banned lenders from pursuing most delinquent loans until at least the end of August 2020 to help people weather the pandemic. Distressed property volume is almost guaranteed to increase significantly once the moratorium is lifted because millions of Americans missed their mortgage payments in June and will continue to because of unemployment. But for now, everything is on hold and the foreclosure numbers reflect that pause."

https://www.worldpropertyjournal.co...s-foreclosure-reports-ohan-antebian-12055.php

 

[Chris Gadsden]

The effects of natural disasters frequently do last for many years. Many people still haven't rebuilt the homes destroyed by wildfires in NorCal two years ago.

Are these same people living on the streets and not working?

And yes, pandemic insurance is possible.

In the USA pandemic insurance is nowhere. Literally. There was a provider several years ago that developed actuary tables after H1N1 and put the product out to the market. You want to guess how many policies were purchased?

Zero. Would you like to know why? The price for the policy was so high that - unless every business was forced to buy it (think workers compensation) - there was no way to build the cost of the policy into the price of the good or service offered and still stay in business. Eventually the insurance provider removed that product from their offerings.

A lot of people sympathetic to your views would reword my sentences with C19. They would say that it hasn't been as bad as many people are making it out to be. Which is true enough if you're young, and don't have any at-risk friends or relatives. It's not the Spanish flu.

A lot of people sympathetic to my views simply want to work, earn their living, provide for their families and pay their taxes in the safest way possible. Not only is it not the Spanish flu, it’s not the Swine flu either.

Businesses don't fail just because of bad decisions. A lot of it is bad luck, and a lot more of it results from predatory practices by competing businesses. When businesses fail in normal times, free marketeers never shed a tear for them. And their five year failure rate rivals that of some of the most aggressive types of cancer.

Thriving business’ that fail from government ordering them to shut is wholly different. Not everyone works and is paid by taxpayer and Treasury’s printing press.

But if you do want to go down the bad decision route, people were warning about the likelihood of a pandemic for years. Swine flu and SARS-1 should have been a heads up. A far-sighted business owner could have made plans in case of an emergency shut down.

We have been talking about climate change for years too. Other than buying carbon credits can you show me where to go to buy climate change insurance?

 

[djpbaltimore]

Not every restaurant is a McDonalds. But, why is it okay for the entertainment industry to utilize the exact product delivery method the restaurateur is banned from using? Could it be the clout of the film industry or is this another case of Covid knowing where and when to attack?

The restaurant in question is in LA. But outside dining is now done there just because.

I don't eat at McDonalds. I mostly frequent mid-range sit down places that serve drinks. In my experience, most food can be transported within 5 miles without much loss in quality and most of them have continued alternate takeout and delivery even after re-opening for dining. I don't know if it is appropriate to make a direct comparison, but I doubt the testing requirement is the same for restaurant employees as it is for film employees. It might be worth looking into whether that film company wants some food brought in.

As of today, filming continues to be permissible with a valid permit. To obtain a permit requires that filmmakers comply with health protocols outlined in the Health Order amended by the County of Los Angeles Department of Public Health on June 12, 2020. These orders are subject to further amendment. The latest will always be available from LA County and linked to from the COVID-19 Resource Center of the FilmLA website.

Current orders impose requirements on film productions regarding workplace social distancing, use of personal protective equipment (PPE), hours of filming activity, regular sanitation and employee testing. The protocols do not limit the size of productions in terms of people, beyond what is safe and practical for social distancing in a confined space.

For every outdoor dining space, there are people shuttling in and out of indoor kitchens and prep areas. It is the lowest risk, but I can see this type of restriction when ICU capacity is dwindling. Once the case load eases, I am sure that they will re-open to outdoor dining. It bears repeating that there are only 14 states with a lower mortality rate than California. To me, that indicates that their method of restrictions are working even if they seem onerous.

 

[Keram]

In Slovakia hundreds of restaurants and gyms wants to open tommorrow despite of they cant. It is anarchy time here. Incompetent government which change rules every other day cause this. I am think it is beacuse parliamentary speaker Boris Kollar opened his ski resort. They claimed ski resorts are closed and when Kollar opened his resort they claimed they werent closed just yet. Total mess.

 

[Nomad]

That won't be the label people get for refusing vaccines with 95% efficacy. Darwin award candidates is a better one.

95% efficacy with only 196 participants out of 30,000 that were examined (Moderna phase 3) and absolutely no long-term safety data. Out of the 196, 11 were infected from the vaccine group while 185 got infected from the placebo group. But the end point was looking only at symptoms from infection with no evidence of stopping transmission.

2 Companies Say Their Vaccines Are 95% Effective. What Does That Mean? (Published 2020)

You might assume that 95 out of every 100 people vaccinated will be protected from Covid-19. But that’s not how the math works.

www.google.com

And don't you have a genuine concern with the lack of long-term safety data? Already in the short-term, there was one very serious side-effect when one participant in the AstroZenaca trial suffered transverse myelitis of the spinal cord:

NIH 'Very Concerned' About Serious Side Effect in Coronavirus Vaccine Trial - KFF Health News

The AstraZeneca trial is on hold in the U.S. as scientists try to unravel whether a rare neurological condition is linked to the vaccine. But regulators are frustrated by a lack of information from the drugmaker.

www.google.com

 

[Nomad]

This, actually, is extremely concerning and should be for everyone consuming oxygen on this planet.

Wow.

It should be but apparently not. When a business wants liability protection for it's product that should be a big red flag.

And the UK government must be anticipating an onslaught of adverse reactions:

"UK to use AI for COVID-19 vaccine side effects:"

UK to use AI for COVID-19 vaccine side effects

Software company Genpact UK has been paid £1.5m for an AI tool that will be used to process the adverse reactions of the COVID-19 vaccines.

www.healthcareitnews.com

"The government contract states that the AI tool will "process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine adverse drug reactions (ADRs) and ensure that no details...are missing."

"The types of vaccine being developed, such as the MRNA and chimpanzee adenovirus are relatively new, making it hard to predict how they will interact with millions of people's immune systems."

"The contract from MHRA also concedes that the timelines of the coronavirus vaccine has been accelerated so fast that an accurate analysis of their safety may not be available when they start to be trialled in mational immunisation campaigns."

Wow is right.

 

[Nomad]

"SHOT DOWN Majority of NYC firefighters and transit workers say they WON’T get Covid vaccine because ‘they no longer trust anyone’

Majority of NY firefighters & transit staff WON'T get Covid jab due to 'trust'

THE majority of New York firefighters and transit workers say they won’t get the Covid vaccine because they do not “trust” its safety, surveys show. Around 55 per cent of 2,053 of…

www.google.com

 

[Nomad]

Interview with Dr. Mike Yeadon, former chief scientific advisor with Pfizer, on concerns of the safety and effectiveness of the Covid vaccines:

View: https://youtu.be/aRLnM8DsLLM


On the virus, Yeadon states: "Worst version of flu in most people who are old, less severe risk for those who are much younger."

 

[djpbaltimore]

95% efficacy with only 196 participants out of 30,000 that were examined (Moderna phase 3) and absolutely no long-term safety data. Out of the 196, 11 were infected from the vaccine group while 185 got infected from the placebo group. But the end point was looking only at symptoms from infection with no evidence of stopping transmission.

2 Companies Say Their Vaccines Are 95% Effective. What Does That Mean? (Published 2020)

You might assume that 95 out of every 100 people vaccinated will be protected from Covid-19. But that’s not how the math works.

www.google.com

And don't you have a genuine concern with the lack of long-term safety data? Already in the short-term, there was one very serious side-effect when one participant in the AstroZenaca trial suffered transverse myelitis of the spinal cord:

NIH 'Very Concerned' About Serious Side Effect in Coronavirus Vaccine Trial - KFF Health News

The AstraZeneca trial is on hold in the U.S. as scientists try to unravel whether a rare neurological condition is linked to the vaccine. But regulators are frustrated by a lack of information from the drugmaker.

www.google.com

Correct, most of those people were not exposed to the virus. We can only use the subset of enrollees who were infected. Fauci was also on CNN this morning. He believes that the vaccine may limit the amount of virus in the nasopharynx leading to decreased transmission. That was not tested in the trial for reasons that we have discussed already, but the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The AZ safety issue is worth flagging, but it is worth noting that the AZ is not the one about to be rolled out here. And the AZ vaccine is a totally different type than the ones that are about to get an EUA.

Be explicit, what do you expect to see in long term results? The vaccine components are long gone in the people who have gotten them. The viral RNA is harmless by itself. The two month safety data is good enough for me. Some past presidents have been suggested to be filmed taking the vaccine to enforce the message of safety. If they need more people to do this, hit me up......

Interview with Dr. Mike Yeadon, former chief scientific advisor with Pfizer, on concerns of the safety and effectiveness of the Covid vaccines:

View: https://youtu.be/aRLnM8DsLLM


On the virus, Yeadon states: "Worst version of flu in most people who are old, less severe risk for those who are much younger."

I made it 4 mins until he lied that the trial only indicated whether the people were PCR positive. That is not correct. The trials showed less symptom development and one showed less severe hospitalization. And he is dead wrong that there is no benefit to younger people. I posted the stats last week. But a lot more in the 15-24 group have died from COVID than from the Flu this year.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1335755807544238080

View: https://twitter.com/JeffreyGoldberg/status/1335755807544238080

 

[djpbaltimore]

Worth noting that Flu is looking very likely to be minimal this year according to current trends in the US. Ironic that the COVID precautions have shown us a path to getting rid of so much of the flu mortality that we take for granted. So, if it is not clear, at this point every age group is much more likely to die from COVID than Flu. And that does not include all the other devious things COVID causes that are not death. Serious people like Yeadon who are fretting about the long term effects of vaccines should look a little closer about the long term effects of COVID IMO.

LOL. Watching more of Yeadon. He is comparing people getting the vaccine to what the Nazis did in WWII. OH-kayyyyy.....

And they finish up with the.... 'Did they die from COVID or with COVID' BS.

Oops, there is more. He claims that they have reached herd immunity based on fanwanking the cross reactive T cell data. Then he compares taking the vaccine as a population to throwing ourselves in front of a proverbial train. Worth noting that he claims not to be anti-vaccine but his comparisons make that claim seem pretty hollow TBH.

 

[Jagartrott]

I'm still waiting to hear what Nomad and Chris actually propose to tackle this major problem. If you want hospitals to be able to properly treat non-covid cases, you have got to prevent wide spread of covid. Simply saying "protect the weak and elderly" doesn't cut it. No country has been able to combine widespread infection and limited infection with the vulnerable part of the population, and there are good reasons for that (for instance: vulnerable people often need care). Moreover, if you complain that mental problems don't get enough attention (I actually agree), it seems completely contradictory to then expect vulnerable people to be sheltered from the rest of society for ages.

To me, it sounds like many contradictory and/or poorly reasoned arguments put together, offering no realistic solutions.

 

[djpbaltimore]

I posted this quote in October about Atlas. Seems to be in play here IMO.

“It seems to me this is policy-based evidence-making rather than evidence-based policymaking,” said Marc Lipsitch, director of the Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. “In other words, if your goal is to do nothing, then you create a situation in which it looks okay to do nothing [and] you find some experts to make it complicated.”

 

[Koronin]

Did you all see that UAE team may have the option to get a vaccine at their training camp which they are going to hold in UAE in January? Sounds like it's the vaccine being developed in China that's in phase 3 trials. The article is on the front page of the site.

 

[Unchained]

Any mention of the foreclosure and bankruptcy figures ?

Yes..it's a double or triple negative..foreclosures are up..eviction proceedings are up..lots of fragility showing in credit markets of all kinds..
But..
Real estate prices nationwide, going up, mortgage loan apps, going up..low home inventory nation wide..
so my read is this..reports say rental prices are flat or slight declines..government intervention..by encouraging banks to move late or missed payments to the back end of the loan, restructuring..and rent relief and eviction moratoriu ms expire..
Another permanent under class established..foreclosure,eviction..will need to live in car or tent or under the overpass from now on..but w so many ready, qualified buyers,no supply of houses..we will just chalk up another..one man's loss is another man's gain and move on.
2 transactions I am personally aware of..East County San Diego..nice 3 bedroom,w den 2.5 bath 2 car garage..dated but functional kitchen..very nice condition..$640,000+ asking..went for $706,000 20+ bids..1970's low ceiling,flat rock roof..nice lot and trees ,everything old..or original..in Paradise Valley AZ..$85,000 above asking..
Pre pandemic I was in NYC and would meet guys that looked only a couple of years past acne, buying @600-$800,000 dollar 2 bedroom,2..2.5 bath apartments..w $800-1200 monthly fees for trash and the doorman..sure I was crazy jealous..but additionally I constantly wonder where the money is coming from..?
I see 60,70 thousand dollar trucks routinely..my neighbor just bought a Raptor..I thought it was cool until I found out it was $86,000 dollars..
The Covid crisis in my opinion is going to reveal how fragile, how close to the edge people really were w guzzling 9-11 dollar IPAs and $20+ glasses of infused vodka..
For all our sakes this economy..and the massive,stupendous loan load debt depending on it better get healthy and back to work..
I have read and seen stories on TV about personal savings rates in the US being at high levels that have not been seen for decades. Personally I have been saving money on accident by not having anywhere to spend it eating and drinking..and that saves cash on gas,oil and frozen yogurt....
I really really hope that we do a 180 and decide that health is the backbone to work and the economy,instead of now w the economy will make us healthy model..which almost everyone..can see doesn't work

 

[movingtarget]

Slovakia's mass Covid testing cut infection rate by 60%, researchers say

UK study finds rapid tests coupled with tough quarantine rules helped bring rate down

www.theguardian.com

 

[movingtarget]

Coronavirus study that found US school closures cut life expectancy criticised by epidemiologist

Lead author of controversial paper making the claims says it has been ‘through rigorous peer review’

www.theguardian.com

 

[movingtarget]

Armed police raid home of Florida scientist fired over Covid-19 data

Rebekah Jones claims Governor Ron DeSantis, with whom she has clashed repeatedly since her dismissal in May, was involved

www.theguardian.com

 

[Merckx index]

How Many Americans Are About to Die?

A new analysis shows that the country is on track to pass spring’s grimmest record.

www.theatlantic.com

This article basically makes the same points i made upthread:

1. the CFR has levelled off since the summer, at about 1.7%
2. deaths lag cases by about 3 weeks
3. using the CFR and lag time, one can project the number of deaths.

In fact, according to this article, this method of projection is more accurate than the CDC's ensemble model, which incorporates many different forecasts.

Upthread (post 4590), I projected an average of 1792 deaths/day for Nov. 26-Dec. 2. The actual average was 1646, and might have been lowered a little by delays in reporting over Thanksgiving. For Dec. 3-9, I projected 2114/day; with two days to go, the average is 2287. That might have been raised by the surge when the reporting caught up. For the two week period, the projected average was 1953 deaths/day vs. 1962 actual.

 

[djpbaltimore]

This graph for the Pfizer data shows that the vaccine is better than the raw numbers they released indicated. It clearly shows that protection starts after the first dose and that a high proportion of people who got COVID-19 in the vaccine arm got it before the vaccine had time to act. So, the efficacy percentage might be understated. Nevermind, they are not included as the efficacy number starts 7 days after injection #2.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1336292903543566336

View: https://twitter.com/BertrandBio/status/1336292903543566336

 

[Chris Gadsden]

No country has been able to combine widespread infection and limited infection with the vulnerable part of the population,

Well then we should keep doing the same thing while expecting different results.

Moreover, if you complain that mental problems don't get enough attention (I actually agree), it seems completely contradictory to then expect vulnerable people to be sheltered from the rest of society for ages.

Right. Because we know who is vulnerable (elderly, morbidities, etc) so it’s just not fair to even suggest that those at most risk shelter until vaccines are available. Yes, far better to demand the whole of the population shelter so we can destroy many more lives.

To me, it sounds like many contradictory and/or poorly reasoned arguments put together

I’ll go ahead and guess you aren’t being harmed financially by the shut downs.

 

[Unchained]

Chris makes many points,very few valid..the use of alternatives is often necessary..substitute Covid-19 with raging brush fire outside your front door..check the END or NFPA guidelines..yes old people,people who are bedridden,have special needs,and others,all groups require extra prep and procedures..
I am guessing that when the fire departments in California tell you to follow evacuation orders,you and yours go full John Wayne and stay and fight the fire. It is always wrong,firefighters keep saying over and over and over and over that they need to fight the fire not do life saving during the event,and just like Covid it's way harder to do 2,3,5 life saving efforts so if you evacuate \ wear a mask \ stay home you allow emergency workers to have a few less things to worry about..
So yes it's reasonable for seniors to stay away from the immediate threat until help arrives..and in the minds of most Americans,young and old..most people expect help to arrive in the form of ambulances,medical personnel,or police or fire truck..not help driving in a golf cart,being dispatched from the golf course..ridiculous.
Old people have ALWAYS needed to be treated differently during this pandemic..and to date,still no federal regulations on their emergency care.

'Bleak Milestone': More Than 100,000 Nursing Home Residents and Staff Killed by Pandemic

Forty percent of all Covid-19 deaths in the United States have occurred in long-term care facilities.

www.commondreams.org