Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[BlueRoads]

My sister works in a hospital in a so far (in the 4th wave) lesser affected area of Germany and they have started to delay "projectable" operations again, like everywhere in Germany. Means operations including cancer patients and heart conditions. She says most of those patients can actually wait one or two more months, but it is extremely stressful if you have cancer and know it is spreading in your body and you have to wait...

 

[Cookster15]

You and the person you're responding to are generalizing about people in a profession layered with responsibilities that typically took a decade or two of research and hard work to achieve. It's really easy to suffer like many have and then blame the consequences from 18 months ago on a faceless "bureaucrat" or dark government cabal. They are the people that, for the most part, are trying to keep us from dying or killing ourselves.
The bit about power and addiction is along the lines that folks were whining previously about political posturing...whatever. It's OK if you admit that's your opinion but sensitive souls don't want to be told what they don't wish to believe on many subjects.
Quote a source and ask for discussion without a direct personal conclusion and that should be OK, too. Just because we haven't come to some sunny, beachside conclusion to this inconvenience (yes, we're survivors so it's only an inconvenience compared to death and debilitation) doesn't mean efforts to protect us are diabolically planned and abusive.
The fact that FACTS we all agree on are still polarizing is frustrating.

Everyone should be accountable and medicine isn't the only profession. "Sensitive souls" have been committing self harm over the impacts of lockdowns. Spare a thought.

I get that lockdowns are a necessary evil but there is absolutely a myopic focus on controlling the spread of the virus completely oblivious to impacts on other aspects of society - including mental health, destruction of private businesses and loss of freedoms taken for granted since most of us were born (is this not important?). There is also a very large and looming economic issue - widespread quantitative easing monetary policies which may have very serious consequences for all of us down the road. The health bureaucrats which politicians have succeeded power to might have studied half their lives but they are not experts in the economy, or it seems mental health? Maybe the approach to fighting the virus wouldn't be different but at least recognize the wider picture. I don't think they have. Words can soothe.

A little sympathy and empathy goes a long way. The "decade or two of research" is still evolving since the pandemic commenced. So has our understanding how to combat it. The Hippocratic Oath seems to play a role. But medical` professions , including epidemiology are not infallible - because it is based upon science and science evolves. For example, Anthony Fauci is a health bureaucrat and I note he has copped a lot of criticism here and not from me.

 

[Keram]

South Africa had surge in cases but low mortality. We will see in next two weeks if omicron is deadly or not. I dont know if there is increased hospitalization though.

 

[Oldermanish]

Everyone should be accountable and medicine isn't the only profession. "Sensitive souls" have been committing self harm over the impacts of lockdowns. Spare a thought.

I get that lockdowns are a necessary evil but there is absolutely a myopic focus on controlling the spread of the virus completely oblivious to impacts on other aspects of society - including mental health, destruction of private businesses and loss of freedoms taken for granted since most of us were born (is this not important?). There is also a very large and looming economic issue - widespread quantitative easing monetary policies which may have very serious consequences for all of us down the road. The health bureaucrats which politicians have succeeded power to might have studied half their lives but they are not experts in the economy, or it seems mental health? Maybe the approach to fighting the virus wouldn't be different but at least recognize the wider picture. I don't think they have. Words can soothe.

A little sympathy and empathy goes a long way. The "decade or two of research" is still evolving since the pandemic commenced. So has our understanding how to combat it. The Hippocratic Oath seems to play a role. But medical` professions , including epidemiology are not infallible - because it is based upon science and science evolves. For example, Anthony Fauci is a health bureaucrat and I note he has copped a lot of criticism here and not from me.

We don't disagree on the myriad of influences and consequences of any regional, national or international initiative for health. There will always be miscues, under/over response and oversimplification.
Realistically everyone that is in the path of this virus and what may come needs to know the simplest way to dodge the train before it gets to them. Some will trip along the way. Having experienced both extremely light health responses from Covid and deadly outcomes among family and friends it can be difficult to gauge the risk. The economic fallout is in the same personal influence.
Again, C19 is not ebola , which would terrify even the most ardent vaccine opponent. A program to vaccinate on these levels is expensive, difficult to organize and if not embraced by the majority it will be unsuccess full by minor percentage points.
Freedom counts but so does the sense of community and honesty that keeps freedom alive and Americans have not done that well on the emotional and spiritual side as you've mentioned. Many are willing to ignore realities to prove a point that ends up hurting more than just themselves.

 

[Koronin]

My sister works in a hospital in a so far (in the 4th wave) lesser affected area of Germany and they have started to delay "projectable" operations again, like everywhere in Germany. Means operations including cancer patients and heart conditions. She says most of those patients can actually wait one or two more months, but it is extremely stressful if you have cancer and know it is spreading in your body and you have to wait...

That is scary that cancer and heart patients are part of this. The Cleveland Clinic just said all non urgent surgeries that require a hospital bed are being postponed, although they did specifically say cancer patient are considered urgent. They are still doing non urgent outpatient surgeries. Currently this is through the beginning of January.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Have you read the book "The Real Anthony Fauci" by RFK, Jr?.......and according to the publisher may end up being the best selling book in the history of this country.

Lol. I'll take the under.

Bureaucrats can only be that when bureaucrats suffer the same consequences to their personal lives as those who they think they rule over. This of course includes all the qualified physicians who seem to be our new gods. But their jobs and incomes are never at risk and power is more addictive than money.

I really disagree with this premise. If you don't isolate public health experts from political winds you end up with guys like Scott Atlas. They need to have the power to recommend unpopular policies.

 

[Koronin]

Here's some info on a couple of Covid related things. First Omnicron reinfections of those relying on virus related immunity. Evidence in Israel that getting the booster (Pfizer) does indeed help reduce the risk of getting the Omnicron variant. Finally evidence that heart muscle inflation of the few who do get it, is very likely to resolve its self very quickly.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/covid-science-omicron-may-raise-200456487.html

 

[Ultrairon]

You love to take things and twist them, because that is exactly what this comment is. When was the last time you personally were in a hospital?

Last month. Kiddney stones. Had to have a CT scan along with a scope to get the last one. Yeah I had to play the mask game. I never said at a hospital they should not wear them just in my opinion they are useless. People came in with it on their chin or below their nose or loosely around the mouth. Did nothing in my opinion. Not to mention the people who are wearing the fake masks. That really takes the win on stupidity, the rules say face covering for these mandates, yet you got people walking around with mesh cloth on their face. pointless.

 

[Koronin]

Last month. Kiddney stones. Had to have a CT scan along with a scope to get the last one. Yeah I had to play the mask game. I never said at a hospital they should not wear them just in my opinion they are useless. People came in with it on their chin or below their nose or loosely around the mouth. Did nothing in my opinion. Not to mention the people who are wearing the fake masks. That really takes the win on stupidity, the rules say face covering for these mandates, yet you got people walking around with mesh cloth on their face. pointless.

People being stupid with how they wear them vs wearing them correctly are two completely different topics. All I know is this pandemic who proven there are a lot of stupid people out there. (I'm not referring to you in this, so please do not take it as I am. I've know there were stupid people out there just by having worked at movie theaters and in retail).

 

[Ultrairon]

Everyone should be accountable and medicine isn't the only profession. "Sensitive souls" have been committing self harm over the impacts of lockdowns. Spare a thought.

I get that lockdowns are a necessary evil but there is absolutely a myopic focus on controlling the spread of the virus completely oblivious to impacts on other aspects of society - including mental health, destruction of private businesses and loss of freedoms taken for granted since most of us were born (is this not important?). There is also a very large and looming economic issue - widespread quantitative easing monetary policies which may have very serious consequences for all of us down the road. The health bureaucrats which politicians have succeeded power to might have studied half their lives but they are not experts in the economy, or it seems mental health? Maybe the approach to fighting the virus wouldn't be different but at least recognize the wider picture. I don't think they have. Words can soothe.

A little sympathy and empathy goes a long way. The "decade or two of research" is still evolving since the pandemic commenced. So has our understanding how to combat it. The Hippocratic Oath seems to play a role. But medical` professions , including epidemiology are not infallible - because it is based upon science and science evolves. For example, Anthony Fauci is a health bureaucrat and I note he has copped a lot of criticism here and not from me.

Great post.

Sorry to bring up Fauci again, as I know many want to defend him as if he walks on water, but I remember very early on maybe it was Feb of 2020 when Fauci said he trusted all the numbers / data / etc coming out of China, that he had no reason to believe they would hold anything back. Based on that everything was ok and no need to worry. He really looks bad in that light now. There was no reason to trust any of their data then and now. Look at all the data collection for around the world on a site such as John Hopkins, basically china is dark. It's impossible.

 

[Ultrairon]

Lol. I'll take the under.


I really disagree with this premise. If you don't isolate public health experts from political winds you end up with guys like Scott Atlas. They need to have the power to recommend unpopular policies.

We already got the power hungry Anthoney Fauci who at one point was playing the game of what celeberty would play you in a move role. With what happened with that guy it is a shame Fauci was brought into that world.

 

[Ultrairon]

Here's some info on a couple of Covid related things. First Omnicron reinfections of those relying on virus related immunity. Evidence in Israel that getting the booster (Pfizer) does indeed help reduce the risk of getting the Omnicron variant. Finally evidence that heart muscle inflation of the few who do get it, is very likely to resolve its self very quickly.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/covid-science-omicron-may-raise-200456487.html

That is good news. I also saw or read another place that said the booster Pfizer would reduce the risk of getting the omnicron along with covid and delta.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Your antipathy to Fauci is misplaced. It is not like he was going against the grain of consensus. That was Atlas and look at what a disaster that caused. If you can't admit that much, you are looking at this whole thing through rose colored glasses.

Along with what Koronin posted, all the early analysis suggests that there is going to be a lot of reinfections. And not one herd immunity advocate will demonstrate an ounce of self reflection.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1468001925496860677

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/jbloom_lab/status/1468001925496860677

 

[Koronin]

That is good news. I also saw or read another place that said the booster Pfizer would reduce the risk of getting the omnicron along with covid and delta.

Glad more places are reporting it. I suspect Moderna will do the same since they are similar. It's just we have Israel running basically a country wide test for Pfizer. So that information is faster to get.

 

[Ultrairon]

Your antipathy to Fauci is misplaced. It is not like he was going against the grain of consensus. That was Atlas and look at what a disaster that caused. If you can't admit that much, you are looking at this whole thing through rose colored glasses.

Along with what Koronin posted, all the early analysis suggests that there is going to be a lot of reinfections. And not one herd immunity advocate will demonstrate an ounce of self reflection.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1468001925496860677

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/jbloom_lab/status/1468001925496860677

Why do I have to compare to Atlas? I don't think he was any different than Fauci, both are power hungry and fauci has been a bureaucrat for a very long time. I do not listen to either one of them.
Is that hard to accept? I say I don't like or trust him and its just an opinion. You and other come back to support him as its a personal friend or something.

 

[dusty red roads]

There was/is a triple-vaxxed Israeli doc quoted saying he (believed) he caught it in the UK . But probably light (or no??) symptoms. Sorry, don't recall anymore.

Lighter infection is good, though time will tell if that also applies to potential long covid cases, not just deaths and ICU cases.

 

[FrankB]

Why do I have to compare to Atlas? I don't think he was any different than Fauci, both are power hungry and fauci has been a bureaucrat for a very long time. I do not listen to either one of them.
Is that hard to accept? I say I don't like or trust him and its just an opinion. You and other come back to support him as its a personal friend or something.

'1984' Prequel Released Where People Beg Big Brother To Take Away Their Rights To Protect Them From Virus

U.S.—Harvill Secker Publishing Company has announced the release of a brand-new prequel to George Orwell's classic, 1984. The new novel will describe the events leading up to 1984, where people beg Big Brother to take away their rights to protect them from a virus.

babylonbee.com

 

[djpbaltimore]

Why do I have to compare to Atlas? I don't think he was any different than Fauci,

Then you weren't paying attention.

 

[jmdirt]

I'm not sure what the misplaced focus is on AF. Yes, he is the 'bureaucratic head', but there are scientist behind what he is saying. Yes, he gives public friendly answers which is why he should only be the starting point for answers. There are other sources that provide answers if you want to get deeper (including the scientists who work with him).

 

[Oldermanish]

I'm not sure what the misplaced focus is on AF. Yes, he is the 'bureaucratic head', but there are scientist behind what he is saying. Yes, he gives public friendly answers which is why he should only be the starting point for answers. There are other sources that provide answers if you want to get deeper (including the scientists who work with him).

For sure he is the administrative front for the US health initiative. It can't be lost on anyone here that mixed messages don't help the effort so he would aim at defined, simple recommendations. Contrast that to Scott Atlas who echoed what the prior administration rolled out daily for alternative measures and treatments all the while compromising the now very accepted vaccine treatments.
Add to that the constant anti-vax drumbeat in the US and elsewhere as well as the imagineering of a pharma/political/software program that allegedly includes vaccine markers/monitor robots (or "kill switches" as one old friend offered) and you have muddied water. Of course we want the new, evolving information but punishing the present efforts with old information as knowledge is gained is just stupid. It also is self-serving to those that would gain power by tearing down the effort solely to gain power.

 

[Oldermanish]

'1984' Prequel Released Where People Beg Big Brother To Take Away Their Rights To Protect Them From Virus

U.S.—Harvill Secker Publishing Company has announced the release of a brand-new prequel to George Orwell's classic, 1984. The new novel will describe the events leading up to 1984, where people beg Big Brother to take away their rights to protect them from a virus.

babylonbee.com

Yeah, we read 1984...in the last millennia. George wrote it in 1949 and I'd wonder how he'd feel about someone co-opting his work to make a less-skilled propaganda piece? I'd ask him but he died in 1950.

 

[Unchained]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VMZtG0O9sbU


It's not that funny to read posts from people talking about masks not working,they do,proven beyond any shadow of a doubt. Another post states, the misuse of masks is a separate issue,worthy of public training..Don't know when the United States government,bought,30 minutes on 10-12 most popular TV outlets and had a live stream on YouTube and Facebook to inform the public of facts, here is what an effective mask looks like and this is it's proper use. That obviously needed to be done years ago.

 

[Unchained]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=207eZzBk03M

 

[Unchained]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jwDMI0nOnAY

 

[Unchained]

My sister works in a hospital in a so far (in the 4th wave) lesser affected area of Germany and they have started to delay "projectable" operations again, like everywhere in Germany. Means operations including cancer patients and heart conditions. She says most of those patients can actually wait one or two more months, but it is extremely stressful if you have cancer and know it is spreading in your body and you have to wait...

in the US our system is very very different. Our system is primarily a for profit hospital network,often named for the affiliated insurance company. Our hospitals are extremely controlled and effective,efficient..would probably surprise a German or other Westerners..you go in for a surgery, the insurance company is the primary driver of everything, the doctor can have an opinion but ultimately,it's the insurance company that determines what you get and when, w high limit parameters on what will be paid by insurance,that includes child birth to cancer.
Covid turned the business model upside down with the federal government taking on the primary payment method for most Covid related treatment.
another reason that this is significant, doctors, hospitals and administration all tell of crazy confusing maze of time consuming hassles trying to get paid by insurance. In Germany there are many combinations for sure, with many people with additional private insurance.
so part of many Covid, closure conspiracy theories hinges on the fact that the government has deep pockets and by all reports was easier to get payment from than insurance companies and also rumored different, the government didn't scrutinize the billing as closely..very very believable, and we now have thousands of examples of everyone from prisoners,politicians and millionaires, and huge corporations getting millions in Covid aid money.
very wide spread fraud.
In the United States, there is not much news about people committing fraud to get government Covid,and money