Could a doped EPO Era "1 day classics rider" win the TdF 7 Times in a Row?

[Gcraenen]

Fleche Wallone (1996). Arguably the most prestigious of all the Spring classics. Although the only people arguing that are in the Wallone region.

Very arguably, extremely arguable, in fact... Undeniably NOT even a monument.

Lets trow in Nokerre Koerse and Zwevezele kermis criterium to add some credibility.

 

[Nick777]

Ah, yes; what does he know? I'd expect quite alot. He lived near here for a few years and rode with the locals. Some casual information was passed and his analysis was consistent with what you said until Lance went off the charts at the start of one season in particular, I think the year after the Atlanta Olympic games='97. Not everyone on Moto was into PED's and no one, not even Ochowicz had an idea what Lance was into.

And Berzin-you pointed out what I've said all along: an average rider can become a serious GT rider it their PED regime enhances recovery out of scale with the rest of the peloton.

I do know that Phil Anderson never thought Lance would be a GC rider. Not in a million years.

 

[Oldman]

Agreed.

Have your people call my people and we can get this signed off.

I prefer to do this on a handshake basis. Hopefully we can agree on the beverage & cigar choice.

 

[King Of Molehill]

Could a doped EPO Era "1 day classics rider" win the TdF 7 Times in a Row?

I would argue correctly - No Way.

Others would argue "of course, its already been done - Lance"
To those "others" I ask the question....name another besides Lance....

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Paolo Bettini *could* have been if he had been given the same opportunities and taken the same liberties. He had the attributes, just needed the right help.

 

[Polish]

I don't think a northern classics rider could. In general it seems like they tend to be heavier frames, which makes it much tougher.

But a San Sebastian/Liege type guy? I don't see why not. Look at some of the winners of Liege. Vino. Schleck. Valverde. Hamilton. Berzin.

These guys are/were all contenders in the GT's. With a strong enough program in relation to their rivals, a strong team and good luck in avoiding mishaps... why not?

Good point about the "Liege type guy".

Looking at the last 30 years or so, what TdF Multiple winners have also podiumed at Liege-Bastogne-Liege?

Merckx.
Hinault.
Armstrong.

The TOUGHEST TdF riders GRRRRR.

 

[Boy_Downunder]

I am skeptical of the amount of many "one-day classics" riders whom seem to transform into GT contenders in the current professional cycling environment. The medical enhancements many of these riders attain allows them to ride longer climbs (10-15km+) while preserving their acc. which made them classics riders in the first instance.

Such examples, include many recent LBL winners: Vino x2; Valverde x2; Di Luca; Rebellin and Hamilton. All these riders these doped riders had GT ambitions (bar Rebellin).

 

[Ferminal]

I am skeptical of the amount of many "one-day classics" riders whom seem to transform into GT contenders in the current professional cycling environment. The medical enhancements many of these riders attain allows them to ride longer climbs (10-15km+) while preserving their acc. which made them classics riders in the first instance.

Such examples, include many recent LBL winners: Vino x2; Valverde x2; Di Luca; Rebellin and Hamilton. All these riders these doped riders had GT ambitions (bar Rebellin).

Yet there is a train of thought which suggests you can win one-day races clean.

Whenever I get that in my head I just look at the list of Liege winners you've posted.

I'm not sure which of the two voices is the right one?

 

[flicker]

Lance isn't only a Classics rider. Lance is a Tri-Athlete. Classics +Tri- Athelete= TdF winnerX7

 

[Oldman]

Lance isn't only a Classics rider. Lance is a Tri-Athlete. Classics +Tri- Athelete= TdF winnerX7

C'mon. You know it's not the same thing at all, not even a little bit. Tri-atheletes are classics riders-it's not an additive quality. In fact, if the Tri-athelete isn't gifted with some fast twitch he will remain a tri-athelete. Probably a mediocre one at that.
Flicka-your feed bag has Jimson weed in it again...

 

[skidmark]

C'mon. You know it's not the same thing at all, not even a little bit. Tri-atheletes are classics riders-it's not an additive quality. In fact, if the Tri-athelete isn't gifted with some fast twitch he will remain a tri-athelete. Probably a mediocre one at that.
Flicka-your feed bag has Jimson weed in it again...

I dunno, I'm going off memory because it was over 5 years ago, but I seem to remember Lance winning the Tour by following wheels in the mountains and then taking all his time in the swimming stages.

 

[fatterboy]

Could a doped EPO Era "1 day classics rider" win the TdF 7 Times in a Row?

I would argue correctly - No Way.

Others would argue "of course, its already been done - Lance"
To those "others" I ask the question....name another besides Lance....

Johan Museeuw? No way Museeuw. Could barely finish doped to the gills.

Michele Bartoli? Maybe win 1 in a row. But 7? Doubt it. Too small a bike.

Frank Vandenbroucke? Potential for maybe 3 in a row. But a bit fragile mentally bless his soul.

Laurent Jalabert? Hmmmm...he WAS awesome. Kinda like Lance. But he was doped right? And still did not win one. Win 7 in a row? Nope sorry.

Spartacus? He is awesome too! But could dope turn him into a strong enough climber to win one two three four five six seven in a row? You think?


So, was Lance One of a Kind?
I already Know the Answer to that one lol!

Moser?
Fondrest?
Kelly?

If they had the same team working for them.

 

[indurain666]

Lets not forget that Uniballer did more than dope, he actually bribed the UCI. All other dopers would take juice but still had to pass the doping tests which would limit the amount of juice they could take. Uniballer didn't have this problem and therefore abused the juice more.

All this won't matter once he goes to jail where he'll probably join the can's weighlifting or basketball club. I think he'll come out of the joint with more muscle than his 90s days.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Eddy Merckx if not injured
Greg Lemond if not injured
Bernard Hinault if not injured

All 1-Day-Riders AND multiple Tour Winners...

only Armstrong is called a former "1-Day-Racer". But that should not be taken as a heroic transformation, but a highly doubtful transformation. It could only happen in the Epo-Era, where Riders came from nowhere (Armstrong, Indurain, Rijs).

And indeed Contador will have won 7 Tours in a row, even tough not 7 years in a row.

Polish, don´t twist everything about Armstrong into something heroic. He has shown many times, that he is a psychopatic. I wonder how someone have the time and energy to write 1.500 posts to defend such a person.

 

[flicker]

Eddy Merckx if not injured
Greg Lemond if not injured
Bernard Hinault if not injured

All 1-Day-Riders AND multiple Tour Winners...

only Armstrong is called a former "1-Day-Racer". But that should not be taken as a heroic transformation, but a highly doubtful transformation. It could only happen in the Epo-Era, where Riders came from nowhere (Armstrong, Indurain, Rijs).

And indeed Contador will have won 7 Tours in a row, even tough not 7 years in a row.

Polish, don´t twist everything about Armstrong into something heroic. He has shown many times, that he is a psychopatic. I wonder how someone have the time and energy to write 1.500 posts to defend such a person.

Sorry Indurain and Armstrong are worthy winners. Just as your avatar Jim McMahan was. Riis I do not trust him. There is a shiftiness in his eyes which tells me he may have been a cheater...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Sorry Indurain and Armstrong are worthy winners. Just as your avatar Jim McMahan was. Riis I do not trust him. There is a shiftiness in his eyes which tells me he may have been a cheater...

Jim McMahon

 

[flicker]

Jim McMahon

What a gamer. One tough hombre.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Oh yes. Mr. Sacrifice. But what i most liked about him, he was a Team-Player. No excuses and he never kept his mouth shut. Said what was in his mind. Not like the players of nowadays...

 

[flicker]

Oh yes. Mr. Sacrifice. But what i most liked about him, he was a Team-Player. No excuses and he never kept his mouth shut. Said what was in his mind. Not like the players of nowadays...

Jim is a guy who is a role model in sports to me.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

... and maybe the last one. If i see Linemen weighting 360 lbs compared to 270 back then. Its only business and dope nowadays. Imagine Jay Hilgenberg earned 60.000 $ to protect Jimmy Mac. The dope monsters of today earn this per one quarter of a Game. It all got out of hand. Compareable to pro cycling.

At least the Bears have Martz now. So may some offense comes back

 

[flicker]

... and maybe the last one. If i see Linemen weighting 360 lbs compared to 270 back then. Its only business and dope nowadays. Imagine Jay Hilgenberg earned 60.000 $ to protect Jimmy Mac. The dope monsters of today earn this per one quarter of a Game. It all got out of hand. Compareable to pro cycling.

At least the Bears have Martz now. So may some offense comes back

Mike Martz the man who spread the field with the Rams?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Yes this one

 

[ricara]

American Football??!!?? WTF? What does this have to do with a classics rider winning the TdF 7 times in a row?

In the immortal words of Michael Aisner, director of the Coors Classic, "Wow -- football! I hear those players are really tough! Some of them are on the field as much as 9 minutes a game!"

That about sums it up.And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

American Football??!!?? WTF? What does this have to do with a classics rider winning the TdF 7 times in a row?

In the immortal words of Michael Aisner, director of the Coors Classic, "Wow -- football! I hear those players are really tough! Some of them are on the field as much as 9 minutes a game!"

That about sums it up.And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Because Andreu said Armstrong looked like a freakin´Linebacker coming to the spring classics in 1996. Even tough Andreu said it, i am just kidding.

BTW, what´s wrong with it, when two guys talk about football when nobody else has something to say about the original topic?

And WTF is Michael Aisner?

 

[flicker]

American Football??!!?? WTF? What does this have to do with a classics rider winning the TdF 7 times in a row?

In the immortal words of Michael Aisner, director of the Coors Classic, "Wow -- football! I hear those players are really tough! Some of them are on the field as much as 9 minutes a game!"

That about sums it up.And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Excuse me. NFL has some of the prime doping territory. This is the evolution of American doping. Very pertinent!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Yeah right, Alzado just comes to mind or the Pittsburgh OLer Steve Courson...