Crashes, what can be done?

[BlueRoads]

It may also be worth noting that one of the major things that has caused serious (for this I see it as career threatening) injuries to GC contenders in Grand Tours or preparation races in the last five years has been crashing on Time Trial bikes (Froome, Valverde, and also Van Aert and Lopez to a lesser extent if you add in super domestiques). I know UCI rules on bike design are often spoken about as a joke in the press and some kind of unjustifiable brake on the engineering 'brilliance' of the major bike brands, but this seems to be an obvious area where having rules in place that ensure that bikes handle well enough to stay upright probably has stopped more crashes happening, and also perhaps somewhere where more can be done still.

I really like that thought, time trial bikes and the building of the bikes in general are a bit overlooked when it comes to crashes.

I also liked the idea (don't know who suggested that), that you should have raced U23 for some time as a "qualification". One might think more in that direction, what can be done to improve the bike handling skills and experience of inexperienced riders, a certain mandatory step system or something like special preparation races - I think it might be a problem that especially the younger, more inexperienced riders are often sent to smaller races where the safety is not as good as it's usually at the biggest ones.
Also maybe at least one winter of cross or a summer of mtb should be mandatory...

I don't know, I'm just going bonkers here, but I'm serious about the general idea: I am really sceptical about more and more riders skipping the U23, more people coming in directly from other sports or Zwift (some like Roglic might have extraordinary balance, but that doesn't make them necessarily good in a peloton, and others don't even have great balance, they just have the watts)... and I think something should be done to counter that, to give those riders more experience on the bike and on the road.

The list RedheadDane made, though, shows that sometimes it's just really, really bad luck: like Lambrecht , although, maybe, but only very maybe, it wouldn't have happened so "easily" to a more experienced rider; and then descents are a problem - but would we want races without descents or only with descents that don't require any technical skill at all? At one point you just have to accept that this is a dangerous sport, just like horseback riding (which, I think, is more dangerous by the way). In the end everyone has to decide for themselves if they want to take the risk.

The biggest problem in my eyes are not the races though. It's the training, where so many bad crashes and accidents happen, usually with cars involved. I don't really have a short-term solution for that problem.

 

[EliseeReclus]

The biggest problem in my eyes are not the races though. It's the training, where so many bad crashes and accidents happen, usually with cars involved. I don't really have a short-term solution for that problem.

I think this maybe results in a bit of a catch 22, being able to train better and more effectively indoors will make training significantly safer (obviously) but will result in being 'untrained' when it comes to bike handling, awareness and reaction speed which may lead to worse safety when it comes to race day.

I wonder a lot if the concept of 'match fitness' in football might be useful here - ie. when a footballer is returning from injury or a spell on the sidelines they will often play some games with the reserves or U21 teams in order to get themselves prepared to play first team games again, as there is an acceptance that there are certain things about a competitive game and going through the preparation for one that cannot be replicated in training. I think some requirement for racing small races to prepare for a grand tour or major classic (which tend to be a lot more hectic) could be considered in the same way to mitigate for less outdoor training (although even that maybe can't make up for race experience) and when riders have significant time away from races.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@RedheadDane

I said on multiple occasions i am OK if other people put more emphasise to other areas. Instead of lets say repeating some phrase like nothing can be done.

As for general feel i will side with Tony for now. In the last decade zilch was done and TDF 2021 exposed that.

As season 2021 is over people involved must do some work in this area during the winter. As if they plan to sell us the same "nothing can be done" story in the case of a new fiasco. I personally don't believe they will be able to do that. They did got away with it at TDF 2021 but i wouldn't count on that the next time anymore.

I personally will stick with the end of bunch sprint stages. As i perceive them as a flaw in the system. Other people can put more emphasise in other areas. I have no problem with that.

 

[RedheadDane]

@CyclistAbi, sure... focus on the serious crashes - however rare they are - caused specifically by GC riders being near the front during finales of sprint stages. It's your weird focus on GC riders losing time I take issue with. Seriously, if there was a big pileup, who'd give a *** if a GC rider lost time?
Besides, you don't really have a solution. All you can come up with is neutralising stages, sometimes from ridiculously far out.

As for nothing being done; sure, it might feel like that - especially if you're in the thick of it - but that doesn't make it true.
I already provided several examples of things that have been done.

---
During - eh... one of the races this week... the commentator mentioned that a while ago, someone suggested tying helium ballooons to road furniture, so it could be seen from a distance. What a brilliant idea! Because riders crashing into road furniture is actually an issue, and also something there has been increased focus on trying to prevent.

 

[Oldermanish]

Still doesn't change the fact that the vast majority - if not all - serious crashes in recent years happened in all other situations than "GC riders being too close to the front during the finale of sprint stages."
Here are just a few examples:
Evenepoel, Il Lombardia: Crashed on a descent, and since it's a one-day race there was obviously no GC riders involved
Jakobsen, Tour de Pologne: Happened during a sprint, yes. But GC riders were nowhere involved.
Lambrecht, Tour de Pologne: From what I understand, he crashed because he hit a reflector in the road and then - as unfortunate as you can be - hit a concrete structure by the road with his torso.
Broeckx, Tour of Belgium: Crash caused by dangerous driving by race motos.
Demoitie, Gent-Wevelgem: Hit by race moto after a crash. Unsure what caused the initial crash, but definitely no GC riders involved.
Boeckmans, Vuelta a Espana: Crash happened during a calm part of the race, possibly because he was getting something to drink.
Mauricio Soler, Tour de Suisse: Crashed on a descent.
Weylandt, Giro d'Italia: Crashed on a descent.



You think implementing better barriers is a joke? Of course it would be nice if it was done quicker - during the Women's Elite race at the Worlds Rolf Sørensen and Christina Siggaard was talking about why they were even using those barriers with the potruding feet at all - but the fact is that something is being done.
Or what about the increased focus on education for the people driving the race motos? Of course, shouldn't have taken a death, and another guy almost dying.
Or putting padding on things riders could potentially hit after a crash?

I've been a proponent of better risk marking like was visible on most of the Vuelta descents. Added signage gave much more warning.
As a counter: everyone knew the risks and the course at Lombardia and still lot's of guys crashed on descents. I did not notice any emphasis signage or lighting but was only able to view highlights. I'd love someone's input that saw the entire race.
There is a mixture of awareness, safety measures and common sense that riders need to have. Number one and number three on the list are the team's responsibility in my opinion: make sure your riders know what they're facing. Number two should be the Promoters, riders' representatives and teams; in that order. If the promoters don't take prudent steps the riders need to sit down more often until the team management forces the promoters hands. God knows the teams don't fight that well.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

There was a lot of talk some time ago about tramadol, and possibly other, medications being used as prophylactic analgesics that are not banned. I spend very little time at the clinic, but it that still considered to be an issue? These were performance enhancing, but essentially makes the body tell the legs to shut up, as Voigt would have it, but they also were thought to affect reaction times

If it is, is there a case for some kind of reactions test shortly before the start, on a small, randomly selected, group of riders?

If they can't press a button quickly enough (or whatever the test might be), they can't be expected to react quickly enough to issues they might encounter on the road. It doesn't have to be labelled or treated as a doping issue, no sanctions, just a rider declared not fit to start.
On occasion it will remove a rider who might be a hazard to those around him, but given that teams won't want to lose riders immediately before the start, it might put an end to use of such meds.

I don't imagine it would happen, but if it did, it might make a difference.

 

[the delgados]

Ban Omi-Opi and all your troubles will be solved!

p.s. I cannot believe she is facing up to a year in prison for being a novice spectator at a bike race with no barriers between riders and spectators. I hope she has a good lawyer who counter-sues.

 

[EliseeReclus]

I watched this video as I was avoiding writing a paper this morning -

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuqGd247-Qk


It raises a lot of interesting points around the consistent failures of around stems and handlebars for top level carbon bikes this year. It seems that the issues around completely internal cable routing, disc brakes and the consequent need for proprietary headsets, stems and handlebars is leading to some safety critical failures.

Hopefully, it can lead to some safety improvements around bike design that will stop any catastrophic failures and potential deaths or injuries. Maybe something like design requirements for separate handlebar and stems, and for cables not to be passing through the headset and steerer tube areas.

At the very least it would be nice to these features being phased out of bikes made for the general public, I really see no benefit to having the marginal aero gain at the cost of safety and adjustability.

 

[tobydawq]

Is it just me or is there an unusually low number of crashes this season? Of course there have been a few spills here and there but I don't recall any major incidents, and we have been going for two months.

And even though Van Wilder really tried to initiate a huge pile-up two days ago, the others were having none of it and just went past him.

It's probably just a coincidence. Maybe there is too much sickness going around, so the riders don't also want to struggle with crashes on top of that.

 

[Lequack]

Seems like less sprint crashes maybe, but more mid race crashes.

 

[RedheadDane]

It's probably just a coincidence. Maybe there is too much sickness going around, so the riders don't also want to struggle with crashes on top of that.

Somehow, I don't think "Getting a majority of the riders sick" is a solution that would be very popular in the peloton...

 

[tobydawq]

Seems like less sprint crashes maybe, but more mid race crashes.

I really don't think there are more. Not close.

It's sad that nobody has ever tried to count the crashes.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Something certainly needs to done, as according to Hugo Koblet, crashing isn't likely to only end your chances of winning that particular race, but also any of its future editions.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I wouldn't put too much thought into it. As crashes will come. Currently we see a lot of specialized races and cyclists hence can still cope. Once a GT season will start and if not sooner than that first week of the Tour should yield results.

All in all lets not forget it's early season and cyclists like Bernal are already out.

Just in:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfNSSfGrf5w

 

[RedheadDane]

I wouldn't put too much thought into it. As crashes will come. Currently we see a lot of specialized races and cyclists hence can still cope. Once a GT season will start and if not sooner than that first week of the Tour should yield results.

Of course crashes will come. Let's just hope it'll be nothing major, and that we mostly stick to minor stuff like GC riders losing a bit of time here or there.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Of course crashes will come. Let's just hope it'll be nothing major, and that we mostly stick to minor stuff like GC riders losing a bit of time here or there.

ASO won't disappoint. They specialize in that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/second-tour-de-france-cobblestone-sector-madness-says-pogacars-ds/

Reality is starting to kick in.

 

[CyclistAbi]

If we count life threatening events for this season on the top level:

• Egan Bernal
• Sonny Colbrelli
• Milan Vader

Did i miss somebody? All in all the numbers are rather high so far?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

If we count life threatening events for this season on the top level:

• Egan Bernal
• Sonny Colbrelli
• Milan Vader

Did i miss somebody? All in all the numbers are rather high so far?

Amy Pieters, Imogen Cotter, Amanuel Ghebreigzabhier...

 

[RedheadDane]

If we count life threatening events for this season on the top level:

• Egan Bernal
• Sonny Colbrelli
• Milan Vader

Did i miss somebody? All in all the numbers are rather high so far?

Colbrelli wasn't a crash, though. And aren't we only talking crashes in races?
But actually, the Vader crash had me thinking; should there be better barriers to prevent riders from going over the edge? The existing barriers are meant to stop cars, not cyclists.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

If we count life threatening events for this season on the top level:

• Egan Bernal
• Sonny Colbrelli
• Milan Vader

Did i miss somebody? All in all the numbers are rather high so far?

Cavagna is luckily back racing now, but his crash could also have gone worse for both him and Vansevenant.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Cavagna is luckily back racing now, but his crash could also have gone worse for both him and Vansevenant.

That should be counted as previous season, though?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

That should be counted as previous season, though?

The 2022 season began in November according to the UCI.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Colbrelli wasn't a crash, though. And aren't we only talking crashes in races?
But actually, the Vader crash had me thinking; should there be better barriers to prevent riders from going over the edge? The existing barriers are meant to stop cars, not cyclists.

Thinking about this area in the past year or so i would say pro cycling is basically a war zone. I feel that some official entity should at least start gathering statistics. For cyclist on the road i do feel that in the future more safety related apparel should get introduced. Not just the helmet. Done in such way that it would be measurable in statistics. For it to have a measurable effect.

 

[tobydawq]

Thinking about this area in the past year or so i would say pro cycling is basically a war zone. I feel that some official entity should at least start gathering statistics. For cyclist on the road i do feel that in the future more safety related apparel should get introduced. Not just the helmet. Done in such way that it would be measurable in statistics. For it to have a measurable effect.

I'm quite sure that a statistician would come to the conclusion that no, it hasn't gotten any more dangerous. And then where would we be?