Crashes, what can be done?

[CyclistAbi]

I'm quite sure that a statistician would come to the conclusion that no, it hasn't gotten any more dangerous. And then where would we be?

More or less dangerous in what way and in compared to what exactly?

 

[tobydawq]

More or less dangerous in what way and in compared to what exactly?

More crashes, compared to earlier years.

What else could I possibly have meant?

 

[CyclistAbi]

More crashes, compared to earlier years.

What else could I possibly have meant?

And how were you able to make such conclusions without the numbers? How can you be so sure? Or lets be more specific. How many collarbones were broken per season in 2010 compared to 2022? If some apparel would be introduced. Due to high numbers. And the numbers would be reduced after. Would that really be such a wasted effort? Or it really doesn't make all that much difference if it's 100 or 10 collarbones per season?

 

[tobydawq]

And how were you able to make such conclusions without the numbers? How can you be so sure? Or lets be more specific. How many collarbones were broken per season in 2010 compared to 2022? If some apparel would be introduced. Due to high numbers. And the numbers would be reduced after. Would that really be such a wasted effort? Or it really doesn't make all that much difference if it's 100 or 10 collarbones per season?

I just am sure. But it's impossible to count backward in time, so I would never be able to create hard evidence. So many people just seem to think the number of serious crashes increases by the month. I don't know if they suffer from dementia or something.

Watch the first week of the 2012 Tour de France. Three days in a row there were high-speed crashes not far from the finish. If the same were to happen this year, people would say that things have never been more dangerous and what-not. It's just exhausting.

If you can conjure up a safety-improving measure that wouldn't have any negative impact on the racing, please, be my guest. But don't come and say that times should be nullified at the 10k to go banner or nonsense like that.

 

[RedheadDane]

@CyclistAbi What is this protective apparel you're talking about? Remember, the riders still need to be able to move.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@tobydawq

If nothing else then in your reasoning you at least acknowledge the problem. In addition you are saying it was like this as far back as you can remember. About this part we basically agree 100%. Where we don't (yet) agree is you say you find discussions about potential solutions exhausting or nonsense. Now about that. In the past year or so what i realized is the situation in regards to safety in pro road cycling is worse than the general public is prepared to believe or accept. Heck even i thought things are not as bad. The reality is they are rotten to the core. This hence won't change by itself. Therefore it's in my opinion OK to persist in at minimum spreading some exhausting nonsense. Fell free to believe otherwise.

@RedheadDane

I don't have enough data to answer that question. The way i see it. A while back somebody decided to do something to prevent or reduce serious head injuries. They looked at the head and it clicked instantly. Lets put a helmet on it. And you know what? It worked. Cyclists can still cycle just fine after. I don't know why other body parts would be all that special. For the same methodology not to work again and again. It's not rocket science.

 

[RedheadDane]

I don't have enough data to answer that question. The way i see it. A while back somebody decided to do something to prevent or reduce serious head injuries. They looked at the head and it clicked instantly. Lets put a helmet on it. And you know what? It worked. Cyclists can still cycle just fine after. I don't know why other body parts would be all that special. For the same methodology not to work again and again. It's not rocket science.

Does a rider's skull need to be fleksible during a race? No!
Do a rider's collarbones need to be fleksible during a race? Yes!

Why are you suddenly so worried about collarbones anyway? They're on GC riders losing time level of seriousness. I think I've even seen riders joke that you're not really a pro unless you've had a broken collarbone.
If you really want to talk about protective apparel, why not something that can protect a rider's inner organs? Injuries to those can be fatal, as we have already seen.

 

[glassmoon]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1513534650504945669

View: https://twitter.com/EdgarNohales/status/1513534650504945669


what an idiot

 

[RedheadDane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1513534650504945669

View: https://twitter.com/EdgarNohales/status/1513534650504945669


what an idiot

Seems like the tweet has been removed.
Is it that person from Turkey?

 

[tobydawq]

Seems like the tweet has been removed.
Is it that person from Turkey?

Yes.

 

[glassmoon]

Seems like the tweet has been removed.
Is it that person from Turkey?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LxMq-8YEIg

 

[saunaking]

Are there any rules governing drivers of cars in the caravan? Obviously they pass very closely ALL the time, but if there isn't shouldn't there be some kind of rule like no passing unless you can give 1.5 meters - similar to the rules in many countries?

Its difficult for the drivers if there is no 'guidance' aside from "try to make yourself seen & heard and be careful". At least if there were rules it would probably prevent pass attempts like yesterday until there was a better spot. And if the cars cant pass the main peloton and get up to the break... oh well too bad.

With many small roads and big groups of riders, delaying the cars seems like a worthwhile concession to rider safety.

 

[Lequack]

Having cars weave in between the riders is just stupid. If they were all back behind the riders it would be much safer.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I believe there is a requirement that the DS must be the driver: what sort of idiocy is it to insist that the tonne and a half of steel being driven close to vulnerable riders be manoeuvred by the guy with multiple other distractions?

And related to that, why is it deemed sensible to have the driver passing bottles, coping with flapping jackets, and chatting to riders instead of looking at the road?

Presumably in training, on open roads, most dealings between the car and the riders are conducted from the pasenger seat: why not in races?

 

[Netserk]

I believe there is a requirement that the DS must be the driver: what sort of idiocy is it to insist that the tonne and a half of steel being driven close to vulnerable riders be manoeuvred by the guy with multiple other distractions?

And related to that, why is it deemed sensible to have the driver passing bottles, coping with flapping jackets, and chatting to riders instead of looking at the road?

Presumably in training, on open roads, most dealings between the car and the riders are conducted from the pasenger seat: why not in races?

Do you want the race caravan on the left side of the road?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Do you want the race caravan on the left side of the road?

Are there major drawbacks to it?

 

[Netserk]

Are there major drawbacks to it?

Yes. The driver would be near the gutter, not the centre of the road.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Happens with people driviing British & Irish cars in Europe/European cars in Britain and Ireland all the time. Might help them stay as close to the edge of the road as possible, allowing more room for the cyclists.

Do you really see that as more of a problem than all the distractions and other duties placed on the driver in the status quo?

 

[Netserk]

Happens with people driviing British & Irish cars in Europe/European cars in Britain and Ireland all the time. Might help them stay as close to the edge of the road as possible, allowing more room for the cyclists.

Do you really see that as more of a problem than all the distractions and other duties placed on the driver in the status quo?

Yes. The driver should have good vision of where exactly the riders are, and fetching bottles by a passenger would only take a little error for the driver to mess it up.

 

[Oldermanish]

If we count life threatening events for this season on the top level:

• Egan Bernal
• Sonny Colbrelli
• Milan Vader

Did i miss somebody? All in all the numbers are rather high so far?

Certainly the results of accidents are dramatic. Cars and fans; hard to know which poses the greatest risk.

 

[CyclistAbi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1513534650504945669

View: https://twitter.com/EdgarNohales/status/1513534650504945669


what an idiot

Calling people names in my opinion won't help much. More education is the key here. At minimum two persons didn't do the right thing here. First one being the one walking in the middle of the street. The second one was the "official" on the side of the road.

People need to be educated to act in such circumstances. That is to pull the offender off the road to prevent an accident. Once people will start doing that. Then what you have achieved is you have build a 200km fence. Education is the key.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Does a rider's skull need to be fleksible during a race? No!
Do a rider's collarbones need to be fleksible during a race? Yes!

Why are you suddenly so worried about collarbones anyway? They're on GC riders losing time level of seriousness. I think I've even seen riders joke that you're not really a pro unless you've had a broken collarbone.
If you really want to talk about protective apparel, why not something that can protect a rider's inner organs? Injuries to those can be fatal, as we have already seen.

Why shouldn't somebody be worried about healthy collarbones in the peloton. That is indeed a good question.

 

[RedheadDane]

Why shouldn't somebody be worried about healthy collarbones in the peloton. That is indeed a good question.

Because there are so many injuries that are so much worse.
No one has ever died from breaking a collarbone! Otoh; we don't need to go that far back in time, to find a case with a young man, who landed with his torso on a concrete culvert by the side of the road in such an unfortunate way that he got a bleeding in his liver, and... we all know what happened then.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Because there are so many injuries that are so much worse.
No one has ever died from breaking a collarbone! Otoh; we don't need to go that far back in time, to find a case with a young man, who landed with his torso on a concrete culvert by the side of the road in such an unfortunate way that he got a bleeding in his liver, and... we all know what happened then.

Hopefully you would still like to decrease the amount of broken collarbones if possible. Sure it isn't the worst bone to break, but it's still an injury which affects many riders and teams during a season.

 

[RedheadDane]

Hopefully you would still like to decrease the amount of broken collarbones if possible. Sure it isn't the worst bone to break, but it's still an injury which affects many riders and teams during a season.

But not for long. Riders are generally back on their hometrainers rather quickly.
Besides, it's all about prioritising. Let's focus on the serious injuries first, then we can start looking at collarbones.