Crashes, what can be done?

[Mayomaniac]

Yeah.... and the easiest hill is generally the "Dane Hill"...

But they can be used to catch people of other nationalities!

I guess jokes at the expense of flatlanders aren't just a thing here in the Alpes.
That said, Sweden isn't exactly filled with proper mountains either, so it's a case of the pot calling the kettle back...

 

[CyclistAbi]

If there are a plethora of options and it's so easy to solve, what are some of these options? Don't just say "it's up to the apparel manufacturers to find a solution" like you did before. You've not just said there are a solution but that there are a plethora of options to solve this problem, so let's hear 'em.

Being an apparel manufacturer you would therefore do the knee or elbow first? An area where you have mostly human skin. In contrary to a collarbone. An area where you already have your apparel available for an upgrade?

This is what plethora of options was referring to. Plethora of options on how to solve the problems of introducing (upgrade) apparel. In a way that it doesn't decrease mobility is lightweight and protects collarbone against a direct blow. And most importantly to detect less (severe) injuries in statistics after.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Being an apparel manufacturer you would therefore do the knee or elbow first? An area where you have mostly human skin. In contrary to a collarbone. An area where you already have your apparel available for an upgrade?

This is what plethora of options was referring to. Plethora of options on how to solve the problems of introducing (upgrade) apparel. In a way that it doesn't decrease mobility is lightweight and protects collarbone against a direct blow. And most importantly to detect less (severe) injuries in statistics after.

So you don't have any suggestions then, let alone a "plethora". Glad we've cleared that up.

 

[CyclistAbi]

You keep saying that? How can you suggest putting anything protective on a joint that's frequently being moved, and claim that you can maintain full mobility?

Because that is already the case as we speak? I don't see much skin in this area and cyclist aren't complaining they are less mobile because of it. Apparel is already there. It's just that it currently does a rather poor job in regards to protecting collarbone against direct blow.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So you don't have any suggestions then, let alone a "plethora". Glad we've cleared that up.

Or i don't know. Maybe to first acknowledge what was really said?

 

[RedheadDane]

Because that is already the case as we speak? I don't see much skin in this area and cyclist aren't complaining they are less mobile because of it. Apparel is already there. It's just that it currently does a rather poor job in regards to protecting collarbone against direct blow.

A cycling jersey doesn't restrict movement. It's literally lycra. And it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do; be lightweight, breathable, and - most importantly - skintight.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Or i don't know. Maybe to first acknowledge what was really said?

You don’t have any suggestions to fix it, LS and Redhead Dane are correct.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Or i don't know. Maybe to first acknowledge what was really said?

I don't know how to solve the political situation in the Middle East, but there are a plethora of options.

 

[CyclistAbi]

You don’t have any suggestions to fix it, LS and Redhead Dane are correct.

Right in claiming it would be an easier task to resolve a knee or elbow injuries first? I am not saying that is wrong. It's just that common sense is preventing me to acknowledge that.

But OK if @RedheadDane or @Libertine Seguros can produce some evidence. I can get persuaded. On how a knee or elbow area can be more appealing to apparel manufactures. In compared to the collarbone section.

Lets do that then. Lets compare existing equipment. I am not asking for anybody to produce technical drawings and to resolve this issues for free.

 

[RedheadDane]

But OK if @RedheadDane or @Libertine Seguros can produce some evidence. I can get persuaded. On how a knee or elbow area can be more appealing to apparel manufactures. In compared to the collarbone section.

I have never said anything about apparel protecting knees or elbows! I've said that if anything - other than the heads, which already are - needs to have extra protection, it's the riders' torsos!

 

[CyclistAbi]

I don't know how to solve the political situation in the Middle East, but there are a plethora of options.

But i do wonder. Do you even care about political situation in the Middle East?

 

[CyclistAbi]

I have never said anything about apparel protecting knees or elbows! I've said that if anything - other than the heads, which already are - needs to have extra protection, it's the riders' torsos!

Then what you are basically saying is it really is important? On what the other person really said?

Well i can agree with that.

 

[RedheadDane]

Then what you are basically saying is it really is important?

Injuries to the riders' inner organs! That's something they need to work on preventing as much as possible!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Right in claiming it would be an easier task to resolve a knee or elbow injuries first? I am not saying that is wrong. It's just that common sense is preventing me to acknowledge that.

But OK if @RedheadDane or @Libertine Seguros can produce some evidence. I can get persuaded. On how a knee or elbow area can be more appealing to apparel manufactures. In compared to the collarbone section.

Lets do that then. Lets compare existing equipment. I am not asking for anybody to produce technical drawings and to resolve this issues for free.

Evidence of what? We're not the ones using non-existent statistics to back up a clarion call for change. You've based a lot of your argument on what you perceive the statistics to be, with no evidence beyond emotive arguments, and when confronted with this, simply insist that if those statistics were kept, they would back you up.

 

[RedheadDane]

Evidence of what? We're not the ones using non-existent statistics to back up a clarion call for change. You've based a lot of your argument on what you perceive the statistics to be, with no evidence beyond emotive arguments, and when confronted with this, simply insist that if those statistics were kept, they would back you up.

I don't think it can be denied that there are a lot of riders breaking collarbones. I'm just saying it's maybe not the worst injury out there.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517457708454137862

View: https://twitter.com/JumboVismaRoad/status/1517457708454137862

 

[F_Cance]

that's super vague. Like they never wrote that he is awake after the surgery, right?

 

[lemon cheese cake]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517457708454137862

View: https://twitter.com/JumboVismaRoad/status/1517457708454137862

Im confused by the last sentence. Does that mean he's recovering well and in a good enough situation to use normal means like a plane, train or car rather than a special medical charter?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Im confused by the last sentence. Does that mean he's recovering well and in a good enough situation to use normal means like a plane, train or car rather than a special medical charter?

Red Rick posted this in the JV thread:

Vader was apparently woken up from an artificial coma this tuesday. Things are looking good now, his family have good hopes for a full recovery

'Goede hoop op volledig herstel Milan Vader'

Update Optimistische geluiden rond de situatie van Milan Vader. De familie van de wielrenner van Jumbo-Visma laat namelijk aan de PZC weten dat er ondertussen goede hoop is op volledig herstel. Vader kwam twee weken geleden in de vijfde etappe van de Ronde van het Baskenland zwaar ten val en...

www.wielerflits.nl

 

[lemon cheese cake]

RedRick spoted this in the JV thread:

Thats sounds really good then.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Evidence of what? We're not the ones using non-existent statistics to back up a clarion call for change. You've based a lot of your argument on what you perceive the statistics to be, with no evidence beyond emotive arguments, and when confronted with this, simply insist that if those statistics were kept, they would back you up.

I don't think it can be denied that there are a lot of riders breaking collarbones. I'm just saying it's maybe not the worst injury out there.

Exactly. Although (as far as i am aware of) no entity is gathering public stats about injuries in pro peloton i feel it's safe to say collarbone injuries are as frequent as in "regular" cycling. That is they occur rather often.

For example Vader fractured collarbone and broken shoulder blade. Just today Alaphilippe fractured shoulder blade. In addition if you watched the LBL race and the big crash. A lot of skin was seen on a lot of riders in areas were there should be apparel. That is shoulder blades, shoulders and obviously collarbones for sure took some damage too.

Bottom line apparel manufacturers are currently selling (expensive) crap.

 

[RedheadDane]

For example Vader fractured collarbone and broken shoulder blade. Just today Alaphilippe fractured shoulder blade.

Yeah, I'd consider those the least serious injuries the two riders got.

 

[EliseeReclus]

For what it's worth shoulder padding in rugby (which is largely foam and rubber as any type of cycling padding would be) has been found to be effective only in preventing soft tissue injury and not any type of fracture or dislocation:

"There is still much debate about the usefulness of padding in the prevention of injuries, particularly shoulder padding. The ability of shoulder pads to disperse and absorb force is the main reason why they are used by players. While the pads may reduce minor soft tissue bruising, there are no data to suggest that shoulder padding alone will be effective in preventing shoulder fractures or dislocations. The mechanism of these injuries involves direct impact forces and also rotational forces, something that the pads are not designed to resist."

From here: https://www.springboks.rugby/media/ewanc3gt/review-protective-equipment-in-rugby-union.pdf

So unless you want riders to be wearing full American Football pads (which would probably cause even more crashes), there isn't a feasible means of using apparel to stop shoulder injuries in cycling currently.

 

[thiscocks]

Exactly. Although (as far as i am aware of) no entity is gathering public stats about injuries in pro peloton i feel it's safe to say collarbone injuries are as frequent as in "regular" cycling. That is they occur rather often.

For example Vader fractured collarbone and broken shoulder blade. Just today Alaphilippe fractured shoulder blade. In addition if you watched the LBL race and the big crash. A lot of skin was seen on a lot of riders in areas were there should be apparel. That is shoulder blades, shoulders and obviously collarbones for sure took some damage too.

Bottom line apparel manufacturers are currently selling (expensive) crap.

How do you expect lycra to stop you breaking a bone when hitting a tree at 60 odd kmh?

 

[Ricco']

Regarding shoulder protections, Annemarie Worst has raced this winter with some kind of shoulder pad (on the right) under the jersey. Probably to have some place to rest the bike while running after a earlier injury, but don't know if it can be some kind of effective in a crash.