Crashes, what can be done?

Page 24 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
@RedheadDane

A broken bone usually comes down to a season lost. I hence wouldn't say breaking any bone in your body could be considered as s minor issue. When you say broken it's severe.
Mathew Hayman broke his arm during the 2016 Omloop. I wouldn't exactly say that season was lost for him...
And he's definitely not the only rider who has come back rather quickly from a break like that.
Of course, broken legs are a more serious matter. But even then riders can come back rather quickly. Contador broke his leg during the 2014 TdF.
 
Last edited:
I am sure that there is still some middle ground in between the two extremes you described.
The problem is that foam and rubber (or something very similar) isn't an extreme, it is what any padding that allows movement and is comfortable for for extended periods of time has to be made of. The next step up would be something like mountain bike elbow and knee pads, and I don't know if you've used those before, but they wouldn't be usable for a road cyclist to wear over a 4-7 hour road race (especially in summer), let alone in an area requiring as much movement as the shoulder

Broken collarbones are very very difficult to stop through any padding (just google "NFL Broken Clavicle" and you'll see that it's very common in American Football too and they have huge pads), mainly because it's a weak point in our anatomy and will be the first point of breakage when bracing a fall with an extended arm.

The problem is not that apparel manufacturers are selling crap, the problem here is you are suggesting something with certainty that is completely unfeasible and absolutely ineffective in any reasonable circumstance.
 
@tobydawq
@RedheadDane

It is true that modern medicine can for example use a piece of metal and a few screws. To shorten the time to get back on the bike. But i wouldn't consider that to be an optimal season. If in best case scenario you can still compete after in some events latter in the season. All in all body needs time to heal properly. Relaying on a metal bar. Well ...

@EliseeReclus

There is a reason i didn't propose any special apparel. People would be too focused on that suggestion only after. You were more specific but the problem with your reasoning is you pointed out what you believe are unsolvable issues and now i guess you try to make a conclusion that because of that this are in general all an unsolvable problems. For example to be impossible to see a reduction in stats in regards to some type of injuries. And done in a way it's in general acceptable.

I don't agree with that. I do agree with you that knee and elbow could be more technically challenging areas. At least in theory.

P.S. As for the crap remark. Buy any jersey from any top pro road racing team. After first crash come here in this thread and tell me if the apparel was crap or not.
 
Last edited:
@tobydawq
@RedheadDane

It is true that modern medicine can for example use a piece of metal and a few screws. To shorten the time to get back on the bike. But i wouldn't consider that to be an optimal season. If in best case scenario you can still compete after in some events latter in the season. All in all body needs time to heal properly. Relaying on a metal bar. Well ...

@EliseeReclus

There is a reason i didn't propose any special apparel. People would be too focused on that suggestion only after. You were more specific but the problem with your reasoning is you pointed out what you believe are unsolvable issues and now i guess you try to make a conclusion that because of that this are in general all an unsolvable problems. For example to be impossible to see a reduction in stats in regards to some type of injuries. And done in a way it's in general acceptable.

I don't agree with that. I do agree with you that knee and elbow could be more technically challenging areas. At least in theory.

P.S. As for the crap remark. Buy any jersey from any top pro road racing team. After first crash come here in this thread and tell me if the apparel was crap or not.
Collarbones are in my opinion rather static and as such highly suitable for apparel that prevents injuries caused by a direct blow.
(Also the biggest problem with that is that most collarbone injuries in cycling are not caused by a direct blow but instead by being a point of weakness when using an arm to break one's fall, as EliseeReclus points out)
 
It is true that modern medicine can for example use a piece of metal and a few screws. To shorten the time to get back on the bike. But i wouldn't consider that to be an optimal season. If in best case scenario you can still compete after in some events latter in the season. All in all body needs time to heal properly. Relaying on a metal bar. Well ...
I forgot you only started watching cycling quite recently.
Mathew Hayman won the 2016 Paris-Roubaix!
And as LS pointed out in her link; Contador won the 2014 Vuelta!
And for an example I forgot; Annemiek Van Vleuten broke her spine three places during the Rio Olympics; she won the Belgium Tour that same year.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
I forgot you only started watching cycling quite recently.
Mathew Hayman won the 2016 Paris-Roubaix!
And as LS pointed out in her link; Contador won the 2014 Vuelta!
And for an example I forgot; Annemiek Van Vleuten broke her spine three places during the Rio Olympics; she won the Belgium Tour that same year.
And Michael Rasmussen "won" the Tour with a metal plate and screws in his hip.
 
We could nitpick and focus only on some rare cases in history. Instead of recognizing the general state of thing. That is if you break a bone your season will be affected severely if not lost altogether. I feel it's safe to make such conclusion. A piece of metal and a few screws can shorten the time a bit but this is not something that should in my opinion be encouraged.

@Libertine Seguros

Surely some percentage goes to the direct blow too. Not just in regards to collarbone but this whole area. You often see tear in jersey after some mass crash. In regards to this areas.

Yesterday i found this:


Didn't know this existed. After analyzing it a bit the data indeed confirms what was suggested in this thread. That is the list of injured cyclist in 2022 season is rather big already and fractured collarbone is the most common injury. In average taking 6 weeks to return. Apparel currently being used offering no protection against the most common cycling injury.

Based on the current trend i feel that it's realistic to expect 100+ collarbones broken by the end of the season. In my opinion this is just whacked. I knew it was bad but now the data backs it up too.
 
Last edited:
Didn't know this existed. After analyzing it a bit the data indeed confirms what was suggested in this thread. That is the list of injured cyclist is rather big and fractured collarbone is the most common injury. In average taking 6 weeks to return. Apparel currently being used offering no protection against the most common cycling injury.
Not exactly a "season lost", wouldn't you agree. Notice how many of the riders listed with broken bones - collarbones or otherwise - are already long back in competition.
And - as several of us have tried to point out - the reason cycling jerseys do not protect much against broken collarbones is that it's quite hard to make apparel that protects against broken collarbones, without also restricting movements to a part of the body that the riders moves as much as their shoulders. And no; they're not static!
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
We could nitpick and focus only on some rare cases in history. Instead of recognizing the general state of thing. That is if you break a bone your season will be affected severely if not lost altogether. I feel it's safe to make such conclusion. A piece of metal and a few screws can shorten the time a bit but this is not something that should in my opinion be encouraged.

@Libertine Seguros

Surely some percentage goes to the direct blow too. Not just in regards to collarbone but this whole area. You often see tear in jersey after some mass crash. In regards to this areas.

Yesterday i found this:


Didn't know this existed. After analyzing it a bit the data indeed confirms what was suggested in this thread. That is the list of injured cyclist is rather big and fractured collarbone is the most common injury. In average taking 6 weeks to return. Apparel currently being used offering no protection against the most common cycling injury.
PCS uses 6 weeks to come back from a broken collarbone as a standard timetable, but in practice riders are back a lot quicker than 6 weeks most of the time. Often they can resume training less than a week after the injury.
 
PCS uses 6 weeks to come back from a broken collarbone as a standard timetable, but in practice riders are back a lot quicker than 6 weeks a lot of the time. Often they can resume training less than a week after the injury.
So we just went from "Whole season lost!" to "Six weeks out." to "Actually less than six weeks." in the span of a few days...
 
So we just went from "Whole season lost!" to "Six weeks out." to "Actually less than six weeks." in the span of a few days...
Based on what data? Are you two now saying PCS uses the wrong data. Or that this claim is wrong:

How long does it take to heal? In adults, it usually takes about 6 to 8 weeks for a broken collarbone to heal, although it can take longer. In children, it usually takes about 3 to 6 weeks to heal. However, it will take at least the same period again to restore full strength to your shoulder.
 
That is the time it takes to heal. Internet says another 6 weeks in average is needed to regain full strength. If cyclist returns faster that means his body didn't heal yet properly and likely a piece of metal is holding the cyclist together.
I dunno if you've noticed; pro cyclists aren't average people.

And you still haven't come up with a way to protect against broken collarbones without restricting movement in any way.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
I dunno if you've noticed; pro cyclists aren't average people.

And you still haven't come up with a way to protect against broken collarbones without restricting movement in any way.
Actually they are human after all. Proven on multiple occasions. Their broken bone hence heals the same way as yours. As for me producing technical drawings. Why? Wouldn't it make much more sense to ask your apparel manufacturer to do that instead? After all such apparel tends to be expensive and as such shouldn't be crap. And they are getting paid for it.
 
Actually they are human and their broken bone heals the same way as yours. As for me producing technical drawings. Why? Wouldn't it make much more sense to ask your aparell manufacturet to do that instead? After all such precious apparel tends to be expensice and as such shouldn't be crap.
No... top-level sports people are not going to heal same way as everyone else.
And maybe the reason manufacturers haven't come up with a way to protect against broken collarbones is because it's literally impossible to do without restricting movement. Again; riders move their shoulders quite a lot.
 
No... top-level sports people are not going to heal same way as everyone else.
And maybe the reason manufacturers haven't come up with a way to protect against broken collarbones is because it's literally impossible to do without restricting movement. Again; riders move their shoulders quite a lot.
If you can ride with a piece of a metal rod in your body. And are still considered to be a hot rod. Then surely there has to be a way to reduce injuries in this area. Without cutting people open. And your apparel already being there. In that exact area.
 
@Libertine Seguros

Surely some percentage goes to the direct blow too. Not just in regards to collarbone but this whole area. You often see tear in jersey after some mass crash. In regards to this areas.
I would expect very few collarbone injuries from cycling to be the result of a direct blow, largely because falling at an angle where your collarbone will strike what you're falling into before either your shoulder or your head is very difficult. I speak from experience on this one, having broken my shoulder a few years ago crashing in a diagonal, rolling motion to avoid striking my head, I still came down with my weight on my shoulder and broke it. My other option would have been to use my hands or elbows to break the fall, in which case the collarbone is the most likely victim and no amount of apparel will protect against the weakness of the collarbone in that eventuality, as if your upper arm is extended and your body weight is falling toward it with force, the collarbone is much weaker than the upper arm bone and more likely to be the part that breaks.

Yesterday i found this:


Didn't know this existed. After analyzing it a bit the data indeed confirms what was suggested in this thread. That is the list of injured cyclist in 2022 season is rather big already and fractured collarbone is the most common injury. In average taking 6 weeks to return. Apparel currently being used offering no protection against the most common cycling injury.

Based on the current trend i feel that it's realistic to expect 100+ collarbones broken by the end of the season. In my opinion this is just whacked. I knew it was bad but now the data backs it up too.
Well, the other thing you have to bear in mind is that the amount of races we have data on is massively increased as well. Boileau and Pajur were injured in a 2.2 race, while the stats also include 'cross, track and junior races plus all of those injured in training too.

You had engaged in serious hyperbole by saying broken bones are season ending injuries and have been rapidly downscaling while still trying to maintain that those contradicting you are wrong. So let's take Contador winning the 2014 Vuelta after breaking his leg in July or Matthew Hayman winning the 2016 Roubaix after breaking his collarbone in Omloop out of it, and look at the data you yourself provided.

Patrick Bevin broke his collarbone on February 11th. His season has been ruined, only managing his career best results with a stage win and the GC at the Tour of Turkey and a stage win in Romandie in the two and a half months since (still well inside the 6 weeks + 6 weeks timescale provided). Felix Großschartner broke his collarbone at Paris-Nice and was racing at Itzulia three weeks later. Now, six weeks on from the injury, he has been top 10 in three of four stages at Romandie.
 
No... top-level sports people are not going to heal same way as everyone else.
And maybe the reason manufacturers haven't come up with a way to protect against broken collarbones is because it's literally impossible to do without restricting movement. Again; riders move their shoulders quite a lot.
I don't even think the restictment in movement is the problem. As mentioned before here by others a broken collarbone isn't usually caused by the impact landing on it, but rather riders trying to break their fall by landing on their hands. Apart from having more training for riders to crash "good", like Lampaert in PR, I don't see how any kind of gear could prevent the broken collarbones.
 
If you can ride with a piece of a metal rod in your body. And are still considered to be a hot rod. Then surely there has to be a way to reduce injuries in this area. Without cutting people open. And your apparel already being there. In that exact area.
Something that didn't require "cutting people open" would need to go over the joints, thus... restricting movement!
Why can't you just admit that you're wrong, and realise that maybe broken collarbones aren't the big issue you try to make it appear as?
 
Something that didn't require "cutting people open" would need to go over the joints, thus... restricting movement!
I feel that you have some vision of medieval armor in your head. But even with that variant it could i guess be done. That is to preserve full mobility of i am guessing a shoulder joint. As you assume shoulder wouldn't be able to move after?


@Libertine Seguros

And don't you feel that the shoulder is close enough to be considered as a part of the same area?

@Bonimenier

Who knows. Maybe cyclists would learn to use such apparel to break the fall differently. Compared to what they are doing now. When they know the apparel isn't offering them any advantage.
 
All in all i am happy that we can now base our discussion on some real data. As previously in this thread i said it would make sense to try to reduce broken collarbone injuries from lets say 100 to 10 cases per season. And that would be a success story in my book. Compared to the "Nothing can be done". But at that time the number 100 was just a figure of a speech. I didn't actually believe 100+ collarbones get fractured in the pro peloton per season.

Whacked numbers.
 
I feel that you have some vision of medieval armor in your head. But even with that variant it could i guess be done. That is to preserve full mobility of i am guessing a shoulder joint. As you assume shoulder wouldn't be able to move after?
It would need to be pretty heavy to prevent breakage ;)

All in all i am happy that we can now base our discussion on some real data. As previously in this thread i said it would make sense to try to reduce broken collarbone injuries from lets say 100 to 10 cases per season. And that would be a success story in my book. Compared to the "Nothing can be done". But at that time the number 100 was just a figure of a speech. I didn't actually believe 100+ collarbones get fractured in the pro peloton per season.
You keep acting as if collarbones are the worst of the worst of injuries, when in reality riders get back in business rather quickly.
 
Reactions: Jumbo Visma Fan :)

ASK THE COMMUNITY