Crashes, what can be done?

[Mayomaniac]

What about Geraint Thomas in Romandie last year? I know it was raining then, but at least Ewan was in proximity to somebody else and didn't just crash on his own. I'd count Prades in Greece with the celebrating too late + saddle collapse doublette, too.

On the other hand your hand slipping in cold, rainy weather on the brake hoods is much more of an incident than just sprinting straight, hitting your opponents rear wheel without even trying to change your line to surpass him and hitting the deck...

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

I actually thought Ewan was a master in handling his bike. But in the Tour 2021 and Giro 2022, he crashed twice in the finales. Maybe just bad luck, but riders like van Aert or Sagan in the past never crashed, even in the most hectic finales.

Sad for Caleb. He‘s such a good guy. He‘s as fast as McEwan was, but Caleb is a good person (Robbie was rather unpopular because Robbie often rode dirty and dangerous sprints).

 

[StryderHells]

I actually thought Ewan was a master in handling his bike. But in the Tour 2021 and Giro 2022, he crashed twice in the finales. Maybe just bad luck, but riders like van Aert or Sagan in the past never crashed, even in the most hectic finales.

Sad for Caleb. He‘s such a good guy. He‘s as fast as McEwan was, but Caleb is a good person (Robbie was rather unpopular because Robbie often rode dirty and dangerous sprints).

MeEwan wasn’t a dirty sprinter at all, he was just a crafty/talented sprinter who knew how to surf the wheels and find the gaps.
Ewan is a good bike handler who like every other bike rider occasionally makes a mistake, I don’t think what happened yesterday or in last years Tour is enough to judge him a bad bike handler.

 

[JJFS8958]

Have you all noticed one thing?
We're back to discussing crashes, what causes them, and how to prevent them. Rather than discussing whether protecting collarbones should be the numero uno priority.

just curious, how you want to do that.

Crashes are part of the race, because there are 100+ cyclists who are racing at their limits and try to win. the only thing one can do is minimizing the risk in create a, as save as possible route. But still, the factor rider which is going for a small gap is still there.

By the way it would be interesting to know if there are less crashes at sprint stages since there is the 3 km rule or if the crashes just happen farer out the finish.

 

[RedheadDane]

just curious, how you want to do that.

Crashes are part of the race, because there are 100+ cyclists who are racing at their limits and try to win. the only thing one can do is minimizing the risk in create a, as save as possible route. But still, the factor rider which is going for a small gap is still there.

By the way it would be interesting to know if there are less crashes at sprint stages since there is the 3 km rule or if the crashes just happen farer out the finish.

Okay, maybe "prevent" was the wrong word. I suppose "limit" would have been better.
It's impossible to 100% prevent crashes, but they can be limited.

 

[Netserk]

They are limited.

 

[RedheadDane]

They are limited.

The crashes, or the ways to limit them?

 

[CyclistAbi]

You keep acting as if collarbones are the worst of the worst of injuries, when in reality riders get back in business rather quickly.

They are by far the most frequent ones. Hence focusing on preventing them makes the most sense. As collarbone is usually the first to break in this area. Reducing the number of collarbone injury occurrences should hence have beneficial effect when it comes to injuries in this whole area. Another area i guess is the hip area and upper leg. Apparel is already there and it currently doesn't offer any protection against injuries.

Try googling 'NFL collarbone injury', and then look at the amount of padding those guys wear.

Seeing as you keep calling for apparel manufacturers to create something but have no ideas of your own, how about admitting that maybe - just maybe - this is something that apparel manufacturers, riders, organisers and sport governing bodies have already considered, but without being able to find a solution that doesn't also badly compromise the riders? The thing is, riders need the flexibility and dexterity to help them avoid crashes in the first place. It's no good preventing collarbone injuries in x % of crashes if you then cause the number of crashes to go up and neutralise that benefit.

So let me get this straight. What you are saying is it's impossible to reduce number of collarbone injuries in road cycling by using more protective apparel.

This is your claim?

CyclistAlbi's position seems to be based on the premise of a design that nobody has ever come up with utilising a material that no-one has ever invented.

As such, it can't be said to be a bad idea, any more than the Nimbus 2000 is a bad idea. But while it cannot be any more than an idea, there seems little point in discussing it.

Until it is trialled in the Hogsmeade - Godric's Hollow Classic.

I agree with you in the sense of you get to choose if you see some point in discussing something or not.

 

[SHAD0W93]

They are by far the most frequent ones. Hence focusing on preventing them makes the most sense. As collarbone is usually the first to break in this area. Reducing the number of collarbone injury occurrences should hence have beneficial effect when it comes to injuries in this areas. Another area i guess is the hip area and upper leg. Apparel is already there and it currently doesn't offer any protection against injuries.



So let me get this straight. What you are saying is it's impossible to reduce number of collarbone injuries in road cycling by using more protective apparel.

This is your claim?



I agree with you in the sense of you get to choose if you see some point in discussing something or not.

To expand on Libertine’s point, imagine the weight the NFL players are carrying with their pads on and they still get injured. When they get hit and land on grass and not going as fast compared to cyclists. With cyclists landing on the asphalt. Now imagine the riders trying to complete a stage/race with an extra 3-6 lbs and still having to maintain their mobility. We’d have to have big advancements in technology before we can get what you’re thinking of.

 

[RedheadDane]

@CyclistAbi...
"Most frequently" does not equal "most seriously".

And, BTW, if Ewan had broken his collarbone in that Giro crash, I would have felt sorry for him - just like I felt sorry when he broke his collarbone in the Tour last year - and then I'd be fully expecting him to be back, and competitive, in time for the Tour.

 

[EliseeReclus]

Broken collarbones are also the most frequently fractured/broken bone in the general population as well for what it's worth, I don't think an overdue focus on them is particularly helpful in harm reduction in crashes.

me get this straight. What you are saying is it's impossible to reduce number of collarbone injuries in road cycling by using more protective apparel.

Maybe not completely impossible, but certainly only possible to an absolutely minimal degree due to how collarbones break, which would not be practical with the demands on apparel for breathability and comfort. Maybe if you're so certain that this is possible you can show us an actually existing solution to this problem that is proven to significantly reduce harm and can fit with the demands of road cycling.

 

[CyclistAbi]

And what will you all say when pro peloton will actually start wearing protective apparel and collarbone injuries will see a substantial drop? That it was all for nothing? The way you are acting now is just irrational. That is you don't even care if a collarbone gets broken or not. To prove a point? What point? Acting like it's nothing and it makes no difference. Personally i must say i am surprised to see such level of not giving a damn about it. Didn't expect that to be honest. If this is the general sentiment no wonder nothing gets done.

 

[RedheadDane]

There's a huge difference between "not caring" and "realising that while breaking a collarbone obviously sucks for the rider in question, especially if it happens right before a major seasonal goal, it's just not reasonable to expect riders to wear any kind of protective apparel, as it would undoubtedly limit their movement."

Besides, as I have asked frequently, if you're so hung up on protective apparel, why not something that'll reduce injuries to inner organs?

 

[tobydawq]

And what will you all say when pro peloton will actually start wearing protective apparel and collarbone injuries will see a substantial drop? That it was all for nothing? The way you are acting now is just irrational. That is you don't even care if a collarbone gets broken or not. To prove a point? What point? Acting like it's nothing and it makes no difference. Personally i must say i am surprised to see such level of not giving a damn about it. Didn't expect that to be honest. If this is the general sentiment no wonder nothing gets done.

It will never happen.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@RedheadDane

At least you are rational and admit it's a problem that you actually care about it. On why the irrational conclusion. On how nothing "must" be done. That is beyond me. But OK.

It will never happen.

This is rather normal in my opinion. For majority of people to take such stance about anything. But in the end such things always tend to happen anyway. Jut the normal way of progress. Now obviously progress sometimes takes the wrong turn too. But in general this is it. On how progress work.

 

[tobydawq]

@RedheadDane

At least you are rational and admit it's a problem that you actually care about it. On why the irrational conclusion. On how nothing "must" be done. That is beyond me. But OK.



This is rather normal in my opinion. For majority of people to take such stance about anything. But in the end such things always tend to happen anyway. Jut the normal way of progress. Now obviously progress sometimes takes the wrong turn too. But in general this is it. On how progress work.

But this is such an irrelevant thing that hardly calls for a revolution. Please open your own thread in the Cycling Gear and Accesories or Fantasy Cycling section of the forum to promote your mollycoddling nonsense that has no chance of ever materialising in Professional Cycling which this forum section is about.

 

[CyclistAbi]

But this is such an irrelevant thing that hardly calls for a revolution. Please open your own thread in the Cycling Gear and Accesories or Fantasy Cycling section of the forum to promote your mollycoddling nonsense that has no chance of ever materialising in Professional Cycling which this forum section is about.

Stats don't back your claim.

Cycling statistics on age, injuries, speed

On what age does a rider score the most points? What was the average speed in the WorldTour in 2025? How globalised is the sport of cycling?

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[CyclistAbi]

Anyway. Based on all the discussions we had so far. On what can be done in the future. Short summary:

1.) Bunch sprint stages. Here i feel it's safe to say number of crashes and hence injuries can get reduced twofold. For sprinters with better and strictly enforced rules. For the bunch as a whole. In reducing it before the actual finish.

2.) Apparel. Currently apparel offers no protection against any sort of injuries. At best it can prevent mild road rash. Claiming nothing can be done to make the apparel more protective and for that to be detected in statistics is in my opinion not worth of serious discussion. For sure something can be done.

3.) Spectators. Current system works in a way spectator will get involved in a crash and the only consequence after to be nothing or a lawsuit. Beyond that not much gets done. Here the biggest problem in my opinion is the lack of quality education. First establishing some key points. Like don't reach in the parameter of the road. Always keep your eyes on the peloton. Warn others if they are behaving irrationally. If spectators would get educated in such way then on the long term situation would improve.

4.) Improving the decision making. If conditions are too extreme for appropriate measures to be taken on the day of the event.

Another area worth investigating is availability of quality safety oriented equipment and signaling. Where if you would organize a race on top level you would automatically get access to "few trucks of equipment". And to be installed through the course in "excessive way". Here i would support statistical approach too. That is having a detailed list of safety related incidents and when introduction some equipment for the improvement to be detected in the stats.

 

[EliseeReclus]

And what will you all say when pro peloton will actually start wearing protective apparel and collarbone injuries will see a substantial drop? That it was all for nothing? The way you are acting now is just irrational. That is you don't even care if a collarbone gets broken or not. To prove a point? What point? Acting like it's nothing and it makes no difference. Personally i must say i am surprised to see such level of not giving a damn about it. Didn't expect that to be honest. If this is the general sentiment no wonder nothing gets done.

I'm not saying nothing should be done - I'm saying there currently exists no technology that would function to stop a collarbone breaking and having this discussion is completely pointless. If there exists some kind of magic apparel solution then great, but it doesn't exist at the moment so arguing about whether it should be implemented is completely academic.

It's pretty hard to have a discussion when the majority of people here are proposing things that are practical and actually existing potential solutions, while you seem happy to throw around insults at anyone who doesn't agree with your completely fantastical solutions that you refuse to back up with any kind of actually existing evidence that it can exist.

In this vein, I suggest that we install magnets into every inch of road surface covered by any bike race, and also make cyclists apparel with similar poled magnets so that should they lose balance the magnets repel one another and they can't contact the ground. If you don't agree with this solution and want it implemented immediately then you clearly don't care about rider welfare and have no business in calling yourself a true cycling fan!

 

[CyclistAbi]

@EliseeReclus

Are you sure it doesn't already exist? And are you sure that based on the discussions there is in general support in regards to introducing more protective apparel in pro peloton?

As for saying i am throwing around insults. Rest assured i am not doing that.

 

[EliseeReclus]

@EliseeReclus

Are you sure it doesn't already exist? And are you sure that based on the discussions there is in general support in regards to introducing more protective apparel in pro peloton?

As for saying i am throwing around insults. Rest assured i am not doing that.

You are throwing around insults, you are saying that people who disagree with you don't care about rider safety. In my book that is an insult!

Why is the burden of proof on me to show that something doesn't exist when you've proposed it? Can you demonstrate that my magnet solution won't work?

 

[SHAD0W93]

@RedheadDane
This is rather normal in my opinion. For majority of people to take such stance about anything. But in the end such things always tend to happen anyway. Jut the normal way of progress. Now obviously progress sometimes takes the wrong turn too. But in general this is it. On how progress work.

When do you think technology like this will exist? And when do you think cost will be down that they can afford it?

 

[CyclistAbi]

You are throwing around insults, you are saying that people who disagree with you don't care about rider safety. In my book that is an insult!

Why is the burden of proof on me to show that something doesn't exist when you've proposed it? Can you demonstrate that my magnet solution won't work?

I newer said for people that don't agree with me don't care about rider safety. it's the other way around. The people who didn't agree with me themselves made claims on how it's not worth it.

As for your idea about magnets. Sure. Why not. But it would likely reduced the total number of areas where one could organize the race. To lets say some Japan railways.

Bottom line. That is something for the future and it could work. As for the present. Best to focus in making the apparel more protective. Now if you don't agree with that fine. I don't feel any need to insult you about it.

 

[EliseeReclus]

Acting like it's nothing and it makes no difference. Personally i must say i am surprised to see such level of not giving a damn about it. Didn't expect that to be honest. If this is the general sentiment no wonder nothing gets done.

How is this anything but suggesting we don't care about rider safety?

 

[CyclistAbi]

How is this anything but suggesting we don't care about rider safety?

But that are your (other participant in this thread) claims and not mine? Why are you asking me this question?

I am surprised too.