Crashes, what can be done?

[Libertine Seguros]

How is that being pro any change against ASO? It’s about improving the business model.

But you threw hands with anybody that said they didn't want to change the business model unless the changes presented were an improvement.

 

[scribers]

Bruyneel weighed in on this. Thinks bikes are faster, stiffer, handle bars are too narrow, and disc brakes cause riskier rider behavior. He says riders spend too much time on their hoods and not in drop bars because of aerodynamic positioning.

 

[Extinction]

Bruyneel weighed in on this. Thinks bikes are faster, stiffer, handle bars are too narrow, and disc brakes cause riskier rider behavior. He says riders spend too much time on their hoods and not in drop bars because of aerodynamic positioning.

I feel more comfortable descending on the hoods, because my torso-armreach, with frame geometry, isn't so great. What should I do? Go against a natural inclination? When I listen to the same old advice, I feel less in control. I've tried to go into the drops, but then, invariably, return to the hoods.🤹

 

[scribers]

He says they are always fighting for position. Always. Accidents follow

 

[saunaking]

I feel more comfortably descending on the hoods, because my torso-armreach, with frame geometry, isn't so great. What should I do? Go against a natural inclination? When I listen to the same old advice, I feel less in control. I've tried to go into the drops, but then, invariably, return to the hoods.🤹

You should get a bike that fits better and learn to descend in the drops which is far safer

 

[Rob5091]

He says they are always fighting for position. Always. Accidents follow

That sounds quite possible.

 

[Extinction]

You should get a bike that fits better and learn to descend in the drops which is far safer

Nah, been riding and racing for over 40 years thank you. There is no bike that fits me better. I'd have to cut the gooseneck down, but that would look ridiculous. I'm not gonna change. Besides, I think the whole notion is BS. I'm perfectly fine descending on the hoods. It's never been a problem. Lower center of gravity isn't the issue ( for me at least). It's taking the right line and I do that just fine.

 

[kingjr]

After numerous accidents, calls to make cycling safer are growing louder. Through special lessons, the Vlaamse wielerschool (Flemish cycling school) aims to teach children additional skills to prepare them better for races. Initiator Kurt Van De Wouwer says, "Something needs to be done."

Includes a short video. I haven't translated it, I think you'll get the gist anyway.

https://sporza.be/nl/2024/04/09/vla...n-via-workshops-veiliger-te-ko~1712687193811/

Interestingly, Van De Wouwer merely mentions "bad publicity" as the reason to do something about the crashes. Reminds me of another comment, perhaps by someone on Twitter, who essentially argued that images of the crashes shouldn't be shown because it's bad for the product cycling.

 

[Lequack]

Open letter from Sir Jim Ratcliffe (about safety)

Open letter from Sir Jim Ratcliffe | The INEOS Grenadiers

As we prepare for the start of the Grand Tour season, we really need to address the issue of safety in professional cycling.

www.ineosgrenadiers.com

 

[Berniece]

Open letter from Sir Jim Ratcliffe (about safety)

Open letter from Sir Jim Ratcliffe | The INEOS Grenadiers

As we prepare for the start of the Grand Tour season, we really need to address the issue of safety in professional cycling.

www.ineosgrenadiers.com

Well said, let’s see if UCI will actually follow and implement SafeR guidelines

 

[Extinction]

Well said, let’s see if UCI will actually follow and implement SafeR guidelines.

They had better do. I'm decidedly less interested now in watching those races in which battles amongst the Bigs were expected. It's like those races have been castrated.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So it's race organisers' responsibility to ensure safe conditions in training too, Jim?! What do Froome and Bernal's injuries have to do with the recent spate of racing issues?

The other thing is, Jim Ratcliffe is a billionaire. A billionaire who backed the plan which called for teams to pocket more money at the expense of race organisers - but wants the UCI and the race organisers to foot the bill for improvements in safety at the same time as claiming a bigger piece of the pie - and off the back of some high profile incidents caused by the riders not taking due care and respecting the roads they were riding on.

I appreciate that these big crashes and loss of big names hurt his investment, but they hurt the race organisers for whom these kinds of athletes are part of their sale proposition and advertising too, not to mention that if they do earn themselves a reputation (like the Tour de Pologne or the Scheldeprijs) for regular high levels of crashes, then riders become less willing to participate in their races.

 

[Red Rick]

So it's race organisers' responsibility to ensure safe conditions in training too, Jim?! What do Froome and Bernal's injuries have to do with the recent spate of racing issues?

The other thing is, Jim Ratcliffe is a billionaire. A billionaire who backed the plan which called for teams to pocket more money at the expense of race organisers - but wants the UCI and the race organisers to foot the bill for improvements in safety at the same time as claiming a bigger piece of the pie - and off the back of some high profile incidents caused by the riders not taking due care and respecting the roads they were riding on.

I appreciate that these big crashes and loss of big names hurt his investment, but they hurt the race organisers for whom these kinds of athletes are part of their sale proposition and advertising too, not to mention that if they do earn themselves a reputation (like the Tour de Pologne or the Scheldeprijs) for regular high levels of crashes, then riders become less willing to participate in their races.

"I'm sorry I'm too busy buying Manchester United, you fix it with a few volunteers"

 

[jmdirt]

I feel more comfortable descending on the hoods, because my torso-armreach, with frame geometry, isn't so great. What should I do? Go against a natural inclination? When I listen to the same old advice, I feel less in control. I've tried to go into the drops, but then, invariably, return to the hoods.🤹

Get a different frame, a different stem, different bars...

OOPs, I saw your second post that indicates you are concerned with how propper fit would look.

 

[staubsauger]

Ratcliffe should just sell the team or close it down.

Ineos is a bad joke compared to what it has been before anyway!

 

[kingjr]

[content deleted]

"appreciate" in this case means "understand (a situation) fully; grasp the full implications of."

 

[Netserk]

Some questions are rather answers.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Radcliffe, the billionaire with zero knowledge of the situation as proven by the citation of Froome and Bernal and his interview with Thomas where he sounded utterly clueless, sees the way the crowd is going, rushes to the front and shouts 'Follow me!'.

He is a worm of a man desperate for people to think of Man United and Cycling when they hear the term 'Ineos', but all he is known for round here is sh*t 4x4s, trying to carry on the drilling after earthquakes on Preston New Road and moving jobs to France after shilling for Brexit. I preferred Murdoch, at least the supervillain lair he operated from was in full view.

 

[samhocking]

So it's race organisers' responsibility to ensure safe conditions in training too, Jim?! What do Froome and Bernal's injuries have to do with the recent spate of racing issues?

The other thing is, Jim Ratcliffe is a billionaire. A billionaire who backed the plan which called for teams to pocket more money at the expense of race organisers - but wants the UCI and the race organisers to foot the bill for improvements in safety at the same time as claiming a bigger piece of the pie - and off the back of some high profile incidents caused by the riders not taking due care and respecting the roads they were riding on.

I appreciate that these big crashes and loss of big names hurt his investment, but they hurt the race organisers for whom these kinds of athletes are part of their sale proposition and advertising too, not to mention that if they do earn themselves a reputation (like the Tour de Pologne or the Scheldeprijs) for regular high levels of crashes, then riders become less willing to participate in their races.

Ratcliffe is on exactly the same page as Plugge and most other team owners, being a billionaire like Ratcliffe or only a millionaire like Plugge makes no difference, both are on exactly the same page on why something has to be done. F1 used to have this problem where drivers would be dead or injured before the championship even got half way though. Cycling is in that state too, there's a strong possibility NO top GT rider will survive to July and that is not good for us the fans, which in turn cannot be good for a 100% sponsorship model and F1 was also largely a 100% sponsorship model in the dark days until live TV revenue, Senna's death etc.

 

[RedheadDane]

What do Froome and Bernal's injuries have to do with the recent spate of racing issues?

Assuming you mean Froome's big 2019 injuries, and not his recent broken wrist.

I suppose you could argue that it couldn't have happened during the actual stage, as opposed to during recon, and it still wouldn't have been the organisers' fault; not like they can control the wind.
Of course, you could then also argue that the organisers should have put some padding on that wall, like the Basque organisers should have put some padding on that ditch. However, I'd say it's a more likely logical conclusion to draw that "Riders could crash in this corner, and that ditch looks like it could hurt!" than "A rider might get randomly blown off his bike and into that wall."

 

[roundabout]

F1 teams got first sponsorships sometime in the late 60's, so you are wrong, Sam.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So it's race organisers' responsibility to ensure safe conditions in training too, Jim?! What do Froome and Bernal's injuries have to do with the recent spate of racing issues?

Ratcliffe is on exactly the same page as Plugge and most other team owners, being a billionaire like Ratcliffe or only a millionaire like Plugge makes no difference, both are on exactly the same page on why something has to be done. F1 used to have this problem where drivers would be dead or injured before the championship even got half way though. Cycling is in that state too, there's a strong possibility NO top GT rider will survive to July and that is not good for us the fans, which in turn cannot be good for a 100% sponsorship model and F1 was also largely a 100% sponsorship model in the dark days until live TV revenue, Senna's death etc.

A page that says "it's everybody's responsibility except the teams, even though most of the recent major crashes have been more the result of team instructions and rider behaviours than anything else".

And a page that says "race organisers shouldn't get to keep money, it should be given to the teams" at the same time as saying "race organisers need to spend more money so that our riders don't have to do crazy things like read the road". It is true that races depend on riders for their value proposition, but it's equally true that without races to compete in, the riders hold no value.

But if they drive all organisers outside of ASO, RCS and Flanders Classics to the wall, they can implement their "all money to the teams" system and sell the calendar to the oil-rich dictatorships they want to and not have to worry about racing on roads that have hazards such as fans on them. It's all part of the propaganda offensive for the New Cycling, the same revolution that has been mooted several times before. Manoeuvring the pieces into place.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Assuming you mean Froome's big 2019 injuries, and not his recent broken wrist.

I suppose you could argue that it couldn't have happened during the actual stage, as opposed to during recon, and it still wouldn't have been the organisers' fault; not like they can control the wind.
Of course, you could then also argue that the organisers should have put some padding on that wall, like the Basque organisers should have put some padding on that ditch. However, I'd say it's a more likely logical conclusion to draw that "Riders could crash in this corner, and that ditch looks like it could hurt!" than "A rider might get randomly blown off his bike and into that wall."

Ratcliffe specified incidents that had been detrimental to the Ineos team when he mentioned Froome and Bernal, so he can't have been referring to the recent injury since Froome hasn't been racing for Sky/Ineos in years.

 

[Berniece]

A page that says "it's everybody's responsibility except the teams, even though most of the recent major crashes have been more the result of team instructions and rider behaviours than anything else".

That’s your opinion.

 

[samhocking]

F1 teams got first sponsorships sometime in the late 60's, so you are wrong, Sam.

F1 existed largely the same as cycling did until the 60s too you'll find. The bike manufactures like Peugeot, Alcyon or Binachi sponsored works cycling teams just as the car manufactures like Bugatti, Alfa, Peugeot sponsored works motor racing teams. TV came in around 60 and 70s and visible corporate sponsorship came in, but it was still sponsorship when a rider/driver crossed the line with Peugeot on their jersey in the 20s as it is with Jumbo on their jersey in the 2020's 100 years later, The difference is, cycling still has a 100% sponsorship model and very little safety improvement, F1 doesn't, the 'works' nature of running a team is replaced by sponsorship and TV revenue, driver death replaced with driver safety.