Crashes, what can be done?

[Danskebjerge]

Finally there's the fact that people get into complete denial about riders' own agency and responsibility. That's shown in the silk glove treatment when riders cause each other to crash, as well as in the complete denial that sometimes a rider gets critically injured because of their own mistake and risk managment.

I noticed that a commentator here (a former cycling star) praised one of the male U 23 riders for taking a downhill turn very quickly despite the wet conditions.

Although the timing was a bit awkward, the comment followed the logic of cycling in the sense that when we're in the "watching a bike race" mode, we don't regard the risk of crashing as an important factor. It's the remarkable fighting spirit of the riders we're interested in. The two things - the risk of severe injury and our fascination of athletes going all in - are somehow living their own separate lives. So in one race, you'll praise Mohoric for going down a mountain at an incredible speed, making spectacular saves as his bike at multiple occasions is about to skid off the road. And in the next race, you'll be shocked to see Mohoric crash and fall into a ravine, and you'll name all the things that the organizers should have thought of in order to have prevented the crash from happening.

 

[Red Rick]

Look at how much crap Adam Hansen gets just in thisforum alone, even (many) fans don't really want safety.

Lol.

It's because Adam Hansen does nothing for safety, and only mouths off when riders don't wanna do the Giro queen stage in the rain.

There's not a single useful thing that he has brought to cycling that has improved safety. The guy is just a publicity merchant who comes on every time something bad happens blaming organisers.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Lol.

It's because Adam Hansen does nothing for safety, and only mouths off when riders don't wanna do the Giro queen stage in the rain.

There's not a single useful thing that he has brought to cycling that has improved safety. The guy is just a publicity merchant who comes on every time something bad happens blaming organisers.

This. People are still ignoring riders accountability and trying to blame everything else. Adam is a disaster to this sport. He just wants to be relevant. Like Redrick said, he demands organizers to cancel a stage because it is raining. Never heard a word from him about how reckless some riders are on the bike.

 

[Red Rick]

This. People are still ignoring riders accountability and trying to blame everything else. Adam is a disaster to this sport. He just wants to be relevant. Like Redrick said, he demands organizers to cancel a stage because it is raining. Never heard a word from him about how reckless some riders are on the bike.

Thing that pisses me off about it most is the obvious emotional manipulation that comes with it. "If you don't agree with me, you must not care about the riders". That sort of crap

 

[search]

As I brought up in the ITT thread, the German Federation also contacted the CPA in advance because they regarded one of the descents (not this one) as potentially dangerous.

Nothing changed. So I guess this means this course was was enough by CPA standards.

 

[Red Rick]

As I brought up in the ITT thread, the German Federation also contacted the CPA in advance because they regarded one of the descents (not this one) as potentially dangerous.

Nothing changed. So I guess this means this course was was enough by CPA standards.

It was the downhill in the ITT right? That one did get a few complaints beforehand but nobody really had any trouble.

 

[Netserk]

As I brought up in the ITT thread, the German Federation also contacted the CPA in advance because they regarded one of the descents (not this one) as potentially dangerous.

Nothing changed. So I guess this means this course was was enough by CPA standards.

Well, this time the race organiser is the UCI. Not an easy target.

 

[Stubb]

Look at how much crap Adam Hansen gets just in thisforum alone, even (many) fans don't really want safety.

Maybe not the best example, the guy is pretty confrontational and has chosen a counterproductive "the cyclist have voted" way of resolving any issue with organizers; all the "objective" prtocols are ignored -heat protocol?, let's ask arensman- and dangerous gts like pologne see injuries after injuries (broken spine this year) and I don't remeber any "mauro vegni of poland is a moron" 2 a.m tweet from hansen.
Plus, the rhetoric "cyclists are workers like you and vegni is the pig master who exploit them" is a bit thin if you consider half of them live in monaco or andorra for the view and the cuisine...

 

[search]

It was the downhill in the ITT right? That one did get a few complaints beforehand but nobody really had any trouble.

yeah, but I'd think they would have a general look at the course, especially if there are complaints?! It's all taking place next to each other anyway.

 

[RedheadDane]

You've said that a couple of times now. What is it exactly you mean was done wrong? To my knowledge, there is no surveillance regarding the entirety of a race course.

Pretty sure that was the first time I simply mentioned more people keeping track of the riders.
And not even knowing where everyone was the whole time, simply someone realising earlier that she hadn't finished.

 

[bNator]

So is this now the most dangerous professional sport when looking at death and serious injuries count per athlete? And in the last couple of years, almost nothing was done to improve safety. Supertuck was banned and that was it. I think at this rate they will reach a breaking point sooner rather than later…

There’s a lot of ideas and nothing ever gets done. It’s amazing, really. Teenagers dying regularly is now the new standard in the sport. Just prescribe stiffer frames, stiffness tests and wider tires. Neutralise wet descends or wet stages in general. Start with something and don’t say nothing can be done.

 

[Netserk]

So is this now the most dangerous professional sport when looking at death and serious injuries count per athlete? And in the last couple of years, almost nothing was done to improve safety. Supertuck was banned and that was it. I think at this rate they will reach a breaking point sooner rather than later…

There’s a lot of ideas and nothing ever gets done. It’s amazing, really. Teenagers dying regularly is now the new standard in the sport. Just prescribe stiffer frames, stiffness tests and wider tires. Neutralise wet descends or wet stages in general. Start with something and don’t say nothing can be done.

A lot can be done. All harm can be avoided.

Ban Pro Cycling.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So is this now the most dangerous professional sport when looking at death and serious injuries count per athlete? And in the last couple of years, almost nothing was done to improve safety. Supertuck was banned and that was it. I think at this rate they will reach a breaking point sooner rather than later…

Isle of Man TT - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[QueenStagiaire]

So is this now the most dangerous professional sport when looking at death and serious injuries count per athlete? And in the last couple of years, almost nothing was done to improve safety. Supertuck was banned and that was it. I think at this rate they will reach a breaking point sooner rather than later…

There’s a lot of ideas and nothing ever gets done. It’s amazing, really. Teenagers dying regularly is now the new standard in the sport. Just prescribe stiffer frames, stiffness tests and wider tires. Neutralise wet descends or wet stages in general. Start with something and don’t say nothing can be done.

I think banning supertuck has done nothing for safety. Also, sorry guys, the world championships are cancelled this year, it‘s raining. Like what, it‘s raining at Roubaix, no winner this year, or we move it to some point in May where we can safely plan again? Or are the neutralisations only for stage races? If so, why?

 

[Peyroteo94]

So is this now the most dangerous professional sport when looking at death and serious injuries count per athlete? And in the last couple of years, almost nothing was done to improve safety. Supertuck was banned and that was it. I think at this rate they will reach a breaking point sooner rather than later…

There’s a lot of ideas and nothing ever gets done. It’s amazing, really. Teenagers dying regularly is now the new standard in the sport. Just prescribe stiffer frames, stiffness tests and wider tires. Neutralise wet descends or wet stages in general. Start with something and don’t say nothing can be done.

Adam Hansen is that you?

 

[RedheadDane]

Does anyone know where on the route it happened?
Were the guys going past her as she was lying, unnoticed, in the forest? Maybe even multiple times...

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Does anyone know where on the route it happened?
Were the guys going past her as she was lying, unnoticed, in the forest? Maybe even multiple times...

It happened somewhere on the descent down to Küsnacht. There are pictures from the men's C4/5 race of ambulances being at the alleged scene of the accident at around 12:45.

 

[Red Rick]

So is this now the most dangerous professional sport when looking at death and serious injuries count per athlete? And in the last couple of years, almost nothing was done to improve safety. Supertuck was banned and that was it. I think at this rate they will reach a breaking point sooner rather than later…

There’s a lot of ideas and nothing ever gets done. It’s amazing, really. Teenagers dying regularly is now the new standard in the sport. Just prescribe stiffer frames, stiffness tests and wider tires. Neutralise wet descends or wet stages in general. Start with something and don’t say nothing can be done.

Oh yeah supertuck banned.

I've never seen anyone crash in supertuck in my 15 years of watching this sport

 

[Berniece]

Isle of Man TT - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Are there also a lot of teenagers dying?

 

[Savant12]

Cycling is a dangerous sport. You win by being the fastest and that means, sometimes, taking risks.

I am in favour of neutralizing dangerous descents in wet conditions.
But does that work at all times for one day races? They're not going to neutralizing the descent off the Poggio if its raining cause it's too close to the finish line.

 

[bNator]

Oh yeah supertuck banned.

I've never seen anyone crash in supertuck in my 15 years of watching this sport

Well wasn’t it just a couple of posts ago that you were saying how no one wants to do anything before it happens? Supertuck was dangerous, anyone who’s ever done it knows it. It was rightfully banned. But that was easy. Anyone can ban things. They need to do things…

 

[bNator]

Isle of Man TT - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ok but that’s it, probably. So second most dangerous.

 

[bNator]

A lot can be done. All harm can be avoided.

Ban Pro Cycling.

Nothing can be done. No harm can be prevented. No sport has ever been successful at it🙄

 

[Roku]

Ok but that’s it, probably. So second most dangerous.

You still have Dakar rally in which every year someone passes away, usually motocyclists. Motor sports are more dangerous than cycling in general.

There are certain things that can be done, sometimes race designs are a bit too risky, but honestly fatal accidents often happen on lower risk areas (Kivilev, Lambrecht). Gino Mäder accident happened on a descent that had been used for many years without any consequence.

I don't agree at all with the current trend of "everything is risky", "ban everything", "if a fatal crash takes place then it is the organization's fault". Cycling is a dangerous sport that entails risks. Accepting that fact is the first step to improve things. Then, let's concentrate on realistic measures that can really improve safety.

 

[Red Rick]

Well wasn’t it just a couple of posts ago that you were saying how no one wants to do anything before it happens? Supertuck was dangerous, anyone who’s ever done it knows it. It was rightfully banned. But that was easy. Anyone can ban things. They need to do things…

Supertuck was all optics. It's very visual. It's actually a pretty stable position cause your center of gravity gets lower. Riders only using it on straight sections where cornering is very limited, and riders who weren't skilled or brave enough to use it simply didn't use it. The entire danger was self-limiting.

If anything, the supertuck ban just shows you the focus is all on PR, and not on things that are actually dangerous. Twisty technical descents have people shitting their pants when it rains when in reality you can just use your breaks and it also turns out that on narrow technical descents you don't hit 90 per hour and crashes tend to not kill you.

It is so obviously all for PR reasons that the Sormano descent, which everyone knows and has had numerous bad crashes over the years gets instantly banned the moment one of the golden boys decides to be stupid enough to chase Nibali and fall off mountain.

Meanwhile, causing crashes and taking out other riders with dangerous or stupid behavior is almost completely fair dinkum. It's completely ridiculous.