Crashes, what can be done?

[Ilmaestro99]

It was a bit of a provocant question, because most fatal crashes actually seem to happen on highspeed descents and not on technical ones that are deemed to be dangerous.

Yes. I always have felt.mucb more comfortable descending in a slow speed, technical descent, even though it's the kind that the Eurosport commentators would get all worried about it being 'very technical'

Technnical ≠ dangerous

It's the fast, open descents that scare me a little bit. The consequences of a crash are likely to be so much worse

I don't think we can ever get to a point in the sport where we can stop riders sliding out and hitting guardrails, or touched wheels at 65kph

It just bothers me that someone can crash and be dying in a forest unnoticed , with hour before the medicals get to them

 

[kingjr]

Key questions left unanswered by UCI and David Lappartient after Muriel Furrer's death at Zurich Worlds​

UCI president's press conference in aftermath of fatal crash marked by digressions and deflections

Key questions left unanswered by UCI and David Lappartient after Muriel Furrer's death at Zurich Worlds

UCI president's press conference in aftermath of fatal crash marked by digressions and deflections

www.cyclingnews.com

And he's completely correct

"It will be the job of the police to establish all this," Lappartient said when asked to confirm the circumstances of Furrer's fatal crash. "I will not comment directly about this because there are ongoing investigations from the police, that's their job, I can't answer.

 

[Savant12]

GPS tracking of all riders? All bikes in all pro events to be fitted with GPS so that the organizers and teams know where all their riders are in real time. Is that not a thing now with live tracking available via most head units/apps.

 

[Oldermanish]

It makes sense to regulate route and equipment to ensure lower speeds--but unlike with cars, it's hard to imagine a speed-limit that would work in cycling.

While I don't think it's politically feasible, it could have a real impact to mandate slower wheels (and restrict gears).

Mandating speeds would be a no-go for any sport reliant on media exposure. The risk and reward of those skill events (Nascar, F1) is why they have audiences and exposure 1,000% greater than cycling. In the end a crash at 20km/hr on the noggin does the same damage. It will always get down to rider assessment of risk on pavement surface and what they need to achieve to stay in a race. When a rider goes down solo in a group...it's on that rider. Hopefully the skill lesson isn't dire but it's part of racing.
Neutering that and we should just turn it into E-bike events where the bike programs won't allow an excess of 40km/h. Riders will still crash because what was a meter of advantage is now 10cm.

 

[andrew_s]

What kind of bike will slow riders down without looking impractical and unprofessional though? Will it be a 90s type of bike?

Ban aerodynamics.

Back to bikes, bars and seatposts all using circular cross-section tubing (except maybe 3:2 ovoids for fork blades & chainstays), no skinsuits, jersey fabric knitted with no lycra, etc.

 

[ashhutch1997]

What kind of bike will slow riders down without looking impractical and unprofessional though? Will it be a 90s type of bike?

I've said this before, the bike manufacturers are moving away from making areo bikes at the moment. The bikes of today are slower than 4/5 years ago.

 

[Berniece]

I've said this before, the bike manufacturers are moving away from making areo bikes at the moment. The bikes of today are slower than 4/5 years ago.

How comes?

 

[ashhutch1997]

How comes?

Because manufacturers like Specialized, Colnago and now Trek aren't producing their areo specific bikes anymore. They are now making 'all round' bikes, as it's much cheaper for them to produce one bike rather than have a climbing bike and areo bike. And you have all the media shilling and chatting BS about how fast they are, who are literally paid to promote them.
For example, the Specialized Venge that they stopped making in 2021 is faster than the current SL8, that's a fact. Likewise with the new Trek madone.
I had a modern bike, but sold it for a bike from 6 years ago, as it was noticeably slower and much higher maintenance.
Just my veiw as someone who's raced and worked with high end race bikes for over 20 years.

 

[Netserk]

What kind of bike will slow riders down without looking impractical and unprofessional though? Will it be a 90s type of bike?

Frames can be the modern ones, just mandate everyone to use the same old-school wheel as standard. In ITTs too.

 

[Nick2413]

Frames can be the modern ones, just mandate everyone to use the same old-school wheel as standard. In ITTs too.

Keeps Costs reasonable and accessible too, might even work from a marketing standpoint with how outrageous bike costs are these days. But I doubt they’ll ever let them get away from the fastest and most expensive gear.

 

[noob]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1841007536486453390

View: https://x.com/ProcyclingWomen/status/1841007536486453390

I can't even grasp this. Lappartient should resign immediately really

 

[yaco]

I can't grasp how the Swiss team car did not realise a rider was missing from the team in a circuit race.

 

[Izzyeviel]

a lot of people should lose their jobs. At this point its just utter negligence.

 

[Izzyeviel]

I can't grasp how the Swiss team car did not realise a rider was missing from the team in a circuit race.

Only one team car i think - they'd have been behind their lead rider i presume.

 

[yaco]

Only one team car i think - they'd have been behind their lead rider i presume.

They had a team of four riders. Beside the team car,you have soigneurs on the side of the road, and other team officials in the pits. It's hard to believe you can miss a rider.

 

[Wyndbrook]

GPS tracking of all riders? All bikes in all pro events to be fitted with GPS so that the organizers and teams know where all their riders are in real time. Is that not a thing now with live tracking available via most head units/apps.

As an absolute numty with technical devices how do time gaps I see on my tv get calculated other than knowing where a bike is. Would this information not tell the right people where a rider is.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

As an absolute numty with technical devices how do time gaps I see on my tv get calculated other than knowing where a bike is. Would this information not tell the right people where a rider is.

Using tv motorbikes

 

[Wyndbrook]

Using tv motorbikes

Many thanks, I'm surprised that it's as basic as that.
Even my oldish car will tell the emergency services where I am if I crash.

 

[proffate]

GPS tracking of all riders? All bikes in all pro events to be fitted with GPS so that the organizers and teams know where all their riders are in real time. Is that not a thing now with live tracking available via most head units/apps.

That only works if you have a cell data connection, i.e. for consumer devices it talks to your phone. So this requires extra hardware to be carried around by riders along with a subscription service. And this is still not foolproof as the riders are probably often out of cell coverage. OK they could use a satellite connection, which probably has better uptime. But do you force amateurs to use these devices too? Because this is just as likely to happen, if not more, in amateur races. And this added barrier to entry for amateur racers will not help grow the sport.

Honestly this seems like a freak accident that we shouldn't over-optimize for. Full facial helmets will save a lot more lives, including this one (probably?). But this forum tends to scoff at that idea.

 

[VO2 Max]

"It will be the job of the police to establish all this," Lappartient said when asked to confirm the circumstances of Furrer's fatal crash. "I will not comment directly about this because there are ongoing investigations from the police, that's their job, I can't answer.

Presumably the local coroner will now have to investigate and report on causes of death. In the UK they may well give a narrative judgment along the lines of 'contributed to by neglect' - you'd imagine Swiss law has something similar. And if the pathologist finds she died from complications preventable if she'd been found earlier? I'd be keeping schtum as well if I were Lappartient.

In the construction industry here directors of companies can be (and have been) prosecuted for manslaughter by gross negligence, for which the maximum sentence is life imprisonment. That focuses minds a bit.

 

[VO2 Max]

You could be on to something, get the ds/staff out of their ears during the race and perhaps the presure would ease and prevent then from taking eccessive risks.

I wonder about this stuff. Maybe my perception is wrong but it seems to me that one of the responses to the more controlled style of climbing trains has been guys trying to use the descents as a better opportunity for open racing - that descending has in part changed from Savoldelli smoothly and stylishly closing gaps (equally the guys in the grupetto who we don't get to see), to the likes of Nibali, Mohoric and plenty of others actively trying to create gaps on the way down. When the race can suddenly be on at any point, and that can make everyone more nervous and more likely to make mistakes.

 

[Extinction]

I wonder about this stuff. Maybe my perception is wrong but it seems to me that one of the responses to the more controlled style of climbing trains has been guys trying to use the descents as a better opportunity for open racing - that descending has in part changed from Savoldelli smoothly and stylishly closing gaps (equally the guys in the grupetto who we don't get to see), to the likes of Nibali, Mohoric and plenty of others actively trying to create gaps on the way down. When the race can suddenly be on at any point, and that can make everyone more nervous and more likely to make mistakes.

Savoldelli was a freak of controlled nerves and composure. He knew he could get dropped and then close the gap on the descent. Once he said simply that he had no fear rocketing down and taking on the curves at ridiculous speeds, that he literally wasn't phased by it. He must have been a sensory genius, was just wired differently.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

https://escapecollective.com/enough...y-safety-fixes-the-uci-should-make-right-now/

I was alerted to this by some feed or other, but don't have a subscription. Anyone paying for Escape Collective (or who has not previously used up their three free articles) able to give us the gist of his ideas?

 

[Netserk]

https://escapecollective.com/enough...y-safety-fixes-the-uci-should-make-right-now/

I was alerted to this by soem feed or other, but don't have a subscription. Anyone paying for Escape Collective (or who has not previously used up their three free articles) able to give us the gist of his ideas?

https://archive.ph/dPU9H

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

So his four point plan is:

• Revise and enforce rules of safe routes (especially finishes), including an ex-pro to ride the route early in the day;
• Stricter concussion checks and accelerometers with communication ability in helmets;
• More use of radios;
• Fewer cars

Nothing groundbreaking there, but worth a read.