Crashes, what can be done?

Page 73 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
It's almost comical that disc brakes and hookless rims have jumped to the front of the line in front of dogs, kids, umbrellas, flags, smoke bombs and old people, motorcycles and train tracks as far as bike racing crash cause top 10!! If there were not cars and motorcycles on bicycle race routes crashes would be reduced by @50% instantly.
I have decades of experience with hookless rims and in almost all cases the ability to mount a tire without a costly device is the only difference from all wheel types. Bicycle tires need to be vary vary flexible for mounting, removal and repairs. Bicycle tires are able to be mounted using no tools, hand and finger pressure only and in the event that tire " is difficult " stretching it and using cheesy plastic tire levers is 99+% effective for installation and removal. Try to mount a quality tire using plastic tools, epic fail, thousands of thumbs up YouTube watchers!!
Divergence wrote that has never witnessed tubular- sew-up catastrophic failure!
There can be only one genuine response, nothing to do with truthfulness or validity, just a ultra narrow, ridiculously small data set. Tubular tires are known for decades of catastrophic failures!! And that's in all rim evolution!! Original aluminum box rims were prone to bending but seldom structural failure. The tires glued onto the rims were known to come off for dozens of reasons glue- adhesive was too old,too new, too much ,too little, got too hot,too cold, got too wet.tire pressure was too high ,too low, decent caused rim to get too hot, Cloth rim strip separated from tubular tire casing ( strip was used to cover were tire was sewn together to encapsulate the inner tube) often mounted tires would be marked for date of installation by mechanic, and if wheel wasn't used tire would be removed and reglued to reestablish bond integrity between tire and rim.
Only thing that is for certain about tubular bicycle racing tires..they were from start to extinction, with handful of exceptions.. Hookless!! If you have ever been in or at a race when someone rolls a tire it's almost always catastrophic.. If it happens in front of you or behind you, your glue technique, brand, amount all are immediately played through your mind like did I remember to remove the steaks and raw chicken before swimming in Hawaii or Great Barrier Reef.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSY5X__Xnkw&pp=ygUVUm9sbGluZyBhIHNldyB1cCB0aXJl

Remember being told that new tape would eliminate the need for all the mess,hassle for glue..yeah right!!!
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=om-srNuxHI8&pp=ygUiQWNjaWRlbnQgZnJvbSB0dWJ1bGFyIGJpY3ljbGUgdGlyZQ%3D%3D
 
It's almost comical that disc brakes and hookless rims have jumped to the front of the line in front of dogs, kids, umbrellas, flags, smoke bombs and old people, motorcycles and train tracks as far as bike racing crash cause top 10!! If there were not cars and motorcycles on bicycle race routes crashes would be reduced by @50% instantly.
I have decades of experience with hookless rims and in almost all cases the ability to mount a tire without a costly device is the only difference from all wheel types. Bicycle tires need to be vary vary flexible for mounting, removal and repairs. Bicycle tires are able to be mounted using no tools, hand and finger pressure only and in the event that tire " is difficult " stretching it and using cheesy plastic tire levers is 99+% effective for installation and removal. Try to mount a quality tire using plastic tools, epic fail, thousands of thumbs up YouTube watchers!!
Divergence wrote that has never witnessed tubular- sew-up catastrophic failure!
There can be only one genuine response, nothing to do with truthfulness or validity, just a ultra narrow, ridiculously small data set. Tubular tires are known for decades of catastrophic failures!! And that's in all rim evolution!! Original aluminum box rims were prone to bending but seldom structural failure. The tires glued onto the rims were known to come off for dozens of reasons glue- adhesive was too old,too new, too much ,too little, got too hot,too cold, got too wet.tire pressure was too high ,too low, decent caused rim to get too hot, Cloth rim strip separated from tubular tire casing ( strip was used to cover were tire was sewn together to encapsulate the inner tube) often mounted tires would be marked for date of installation by mechanic, and if wheel wasn't used tire would be removed and reglued to reestablish bond integrity between tire and rim.
Only thing that is for certain about tubular bicycle racing tires..they were from start to extinction, with handful of exceptions.. Hookless!! If you have ever been in or at a race when someone rolls a tire it's almost always catastrophic.. If it happens in front of you or behind you, your glue technique, brand, amount all are immediately played through your mind like did I remember to remove the steaks and raw chicken before swimming in Hawaii or Great Barrier Reef.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSY5X__Xnkw&pp=ygUVUm9sbGluZyBhIHNldyB1cCB0aXJl

Remember being told that new tape would eliminate the need for all the mess,hassle for glue..yeah right!!!
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=om-srNuxHI8&pp=ygUiQWNjaWRlbnQgZnJvbSB0dWJ1bGFyIGJpY3ljbGUgdGlyZQ%3D%3D
Funny things is, what really got me thinking about why bike rims had hooks, was when I was watching a guy change my moto tire so that I wouldn't take any skin off of my knuckles (been there done that too many times). :p

When tubeless first came to mountain bikes the biggest downside IMO, was the difficulty in changing tires because of the tight tolerances. I had a Bontrager rim/Michelin tire set up that was nearly as difficult as my moto. When companies started adding a 'well' between the bead locks, that eased installation/removal quite a bit.

I've witnessed many tubular tire roll offs in person, seen/read about them weekly, but only experienced one myself. 30 ish mph, 70 ish degree corner, no skin left on my left side, heavy busing, hammered ribs, pelvis, femur, ac joint, broken helmet, bent bars, destroyed seat. Fortunately I was close to the end of the stage, but the next day was other worldly, out of body suffering (I really don't know why I even started to be honest!)! Like you said, the adhesive was too new, too cold, too wet, too...they just roll off sometimes under load. I used to occasionally train with a guy who would ride tubulars with no glue and just pump them up to 10 bar to keep them on. No thanks!
 
It's almost comical that disc brakes and hookless rims have jumped to the front of the line in front of dogs, kids, umbrellas, flags, smoke bombs and old people, motorcycles and train tracks as far as bike racing crash cause top 10!! If there were not cars and motorcycles on bicycle race routes crashes would be reduced by @50% instantly.
I have decades of experience with hookless rims and in almost all cases the ability to mount a tire without a costly device is the only difference from all wheel types. Bicycle tires need to be vary vary flexible for mounting, removal and repairs. Bicycle tires are able to be mounted using no tools, hand and finger pressure only and in the event that tire " is difficult " stretching it and using cheesy plastic tire levers is 99+% effective for installation and removal. Try to mount a quality tire using plastic tools, epic fail, thousands of thumbs up YouTube watchers!!
Divergence wrote that has never witnessed tubular- sew-up catastrophic failure!
There can be only one genuine response, nothing to do with truthfulness or validity, just a ultra narrow, ridiculously small data set. Tubular tires are known for decades of catastrophic failures!! And that's in all rim evolution!! Original aluminum box rims were prone to bending but seldom structural failure. The tires glued onto the rims were known to come off for dozens of reasons glue- adhesive was too old,too new, too much ,too little, got too hot,too cold, got too wet.tire pressure was too high ,too low, decent caused rim to get too hot, Cloth rim strip separated from tubular tire casing ( strip was used to cover were tire was sewn together to encapsulate the inner tube) often mounted tires would be marked for date of installation by mechanic, and if wheel wasn't used tire would be removed and reglued to reestablish bond integrity between tire and rim.
Only thing that is for certain about tubular bicycle racing tires..they were from start to extinction, with handful of exceptions.. Hookless!! If you have ever been in or at a race when someone rolls a tire it's almost always catastrophic.. If it happens in front of you or behind you, your glue technique, brand, amount all are immediately played through your mind like did I remember to remove the steaks and raw chicken before swimming in Hawaii or Great Barrier Reef.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSY5X__Xnkw&pp=ygUVUm9sbGluZyBhIHNldyB1cCB0aXJl

Remember being told that new tape would eliminate the need for all the mess,hassle for glue..yeah right!!!
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=om-srNuxHI8&pp=ygUiQWNjaWRlbnQgZnJvbSB0dWJ1bGFyIGJpY3ljbGUgdGlyZQ%3D%3D
I just noticed that I wrote tubular, but what I in fact meant was clinchers with tubes. I have never used glue on tubulars and I have no experience with those, but it seems those can be dangerous as well. In any case clinchers + TPU seems the best combo to prevent catastrophic tire failure.
I agree with what you wrote in the beginning. Race organizers should do a better job. However, we have to recognize that smaller races will suffer, i.e., get cancelled if the organizational costs get too high.
Another big part is rider dumbness or being overly aggressive.
However, even the smaller factors, such as tire and brake choice need to be mention in a thread such as this. Maybe someone with power to influence changes is reading :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
Another high speed crash, this time in Limburg. Overly aggressive riders not respecting where the road ends and the sidewalk begins.
Additionally, the organizer should have barriered off the last at least 3km. There were no many people on the road so it was not a danger to the spectators (but it could have been), but it also allowed the riders to basically act as if the sidewalks are part of the road. It would be interesting to ask the organizer how much would have cost to barrier of the last 3km.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rackham
Another high speed crash, this time in Limburg. Overly aggressive riders not respecting where the road ends and the sidewalk begins.
Additionally, the organizer should have barriered off the last at least 3km. There were no many people on the road so it was not a danger to the spectators (but it could have been), but it also allowed the riders to basically act as if the sidewalks are part of the road. It would be interesting to ask the organizer how much would have cost to barrier of the last 3km.
I saw the crash and low fence meant to protect pedestrians from turning vehicles, bikes going too fast to race on the sidewalk, which they were doing for a few kilometers before the crash.. Sad.
 
I watched Limburg live and literally said moments before the crash happened "if there's a crash, this one is on the riders". The excuse of road furniture and lack of barriers only goes so far. There was weaving, shoulder barging, riders riding the pavement and everything else. Aka what was going to happen had to happen.

These guys are ready to do anything to score a big win - including risking their necks.
 
Both massive crashes caused by reckless riders. In the Giro, they were going very fast on wet roads with 70 km to the finish. Why? Why this chaotic race very far from the finish, specially a flat stage.
I just don't get it. Long term bans and this wouldn't happen. Mistakes are normal but this type of racing in a useless stage? C'mon...
 
  • Like
Reactions: E_F_
Jul 22, 2024
70
78
280
Both massive crashes caused by reckless riders. In the Giro, they were going very fast on wet roads with 70 km to the finish. Why? Why this chaotic race very far from the finish, specially a flat stage.
I just don't get it. Long term bans and this wouldn't happen. Mistakes are normal but this type of racing in a useless stage? C'mon...
Mullen goes off the road in Hungary. I find it unfair to accuse her of reckless driving. It was windy, it was bumpy and he makes a mistake. That can happen. For me anyway, it's the fact that there are so few crashes when 150 riders are riding in a bunch.
I can't judge the crash at the Giro, but the road was slippery. Then you can be unlucky. Or not paying attention for a second. It doesn't help to threaten with penalties. It doesn't prevent the crashes. The worst crashes are often just bad luck. Besides, modern cycling is like real life. It's more and more about efficiency, success, etc. You can't stop that.
 
It's almost comical that disc brakes and hookless rims have jumped to the front of the line in front of dogs, kids, umbrellas, flags, smoke bombs and old people, motorcycles and train tracks as far as bike racing crash cause top 10!! If there were not cars and motorcycles on bicycle race routes crashes would be reduced by @50% instantly.
I have decades of experience with hookless rims and in almost all cases the ability to mount a tire without a costly device is the only difference from all wheel types. Bicycle tires need to be vary vary flexible for mounting, removal and repairs. Bicycle tires are able to be mounted using no tools, hand and finger pressure only and in the event that tire " is difficult " stretching it and using cheesy plastic tire levers is 99+% effective for installation and removal. Try to mount a quality tire using plastic tools, epic fail, thousands of thumbs up YouTube watchers!!
Divergence wrote that has never witnessed tubular- sew-up catastrophic failure!
There can be only one genuine response, nothing to do with truthfulness or validity, just a ultra narrow, ridiculously small data set. Tubular tires are known for decades of catastrophic failures!! And that's in all rim evolution!! Original aluminum box rims were prone to bending but seldom structural failure. The tires glued onto the rims were known to come off for dozens of reasons glue- adhesive was too old,too new, too much ,too little, got too hot,too cold, got too wet.tire pressure was too high ,too low, decent caused rim to get too hot, Cloth rim strip separated from tubular tire casing ( strip was used to cover were tire was sewn together to encapsulate the inner tube) often mounted tires would be marked for date of installation by mechanic, and if wheel wasn't used tire would be removed and reglued to reestablish bond integrity between tire and rim.
Only thing that is for certain about tubular bicycle racing tires..they were from start to extinction, with handful of exceptions.. Hookless!! If you have ever been in or at a race when someone rolls a tire it's almost always catastrophic.. If it happens in front of you or behind you, your glue technique, brand, amount all are immediately played through your mind like did I remember to remove the steaks and raw chicken before swimming in Hawaii or Great Barrier Reef.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSY5X__Xnkw&pp=ygUVUm9sbGluZyBhIHNldyB1cCB0aXJl

Remember being told that new tape would eliminate the need for all the mess,hassle for glue..yeah right!!!
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=om-srNuxHI8&pp=ygUiQWNjaWRlbnQgZnJvbSB0dWJ1bGFyIGJpY3ljbGUgdGlyZQ%3D%3D
I loved racing on tubulars and took the time to prep them correctly. I've won races specifically because I had a wider tire with great grip on wet pavement.

On the other hand; I was usually terrified to follow someone that had narrow tubulars that didn't know much about bike maintenance. Always, always pass that person. Preferably on the inside of a corner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jmdirt and veganrob
I loved racing on tubulars and took the time to prep them correctly. I've won races specifically because I had a wider tire with great grip on wet pavement.

On the other hand; I was usually terrified to follow someone that had narrow tubulars that didn't know much about bike maintenance. Always, always pass that person. Preferably on the inside of a corner.
I only wish they made 30mm tubulars.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jmdirt
I only wish they made 30mm tubulars.
I looked at Victoria and Continental websites!! Conti maxes at 25 and Victoria has 28s for road and it looks like they have different tread patterns, but casing maxes at 33! For cyclocross and gravel.
I raced on silks for a couple of years, CX was always buttery nice. Got away from Clement and Vici glue went with 3M Fastak, you could clean it a little easier with spirits or other solvent. Can't imagine how nerve racking it would be with the fragile gel coat resin on carbon wheels!!
I had them on numerous sets of track wheels and love the feel. Lots of people use very durable tires with stiff strong sidewalls and some casings for puncture resistance, but once you have ridden tires that are really supple and responsive.. Yuck to everything else!! I know, Gatorskins are my go to!! Feels like a paperboy bike!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Oldman and veganrob