Cricket- the sport not the insect

[del1962]

Re: Re:

Having dropped down to no 5, Clarke is still in during first two overs

And still out 2 overs later!

Looks like England are going to get a bat in the morning session

 

[King Boonen]

I picked a good one to bother watching then...

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Dropping Mitch Marsh is a mystifying selection but the problems with Australia's batting is quite simple. They are not good enough, it is symptomatic of Australian cricket as a whole, not enough quality batsmen are being produced.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I must admit to having a #Jawdrop moment when I saw the score this morning. (US time).

Maybe time to buy some tickets for Sunday cheap on the resale market.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

I must admit to having a #Jawdrop moment when I saw the score this morning. (US time).

Maybe time to buy some tickets for Sunday cheap on the resale market.

I doubt this game will go to Sunday. Do well to go further than Saturday morning at this rate.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Clarke now deliberately overbowling his quicks and ignoring Lyon - presumably another selection argument about Mitch Marsh that he lost.

What a mess that setup is. Wonder if he can hold on for the Oval or just retires after this game.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Third biggest first innings lead batting second at the end of the first day. What a day for English cricket.

 

[42x16ss]

Pathetic, pathetic innings. No patience, poor shot selection, too much reliance on aggressive, back foot technique. This is not the Gabba in January!

Australia needs to learn how to leave the swinging ball. No coincidence that their only decent result with the bat came in the most Australian-like conditions (Lords).

Broad was very good, but not 8 for 15 good. Australia has struggled against swing ever since the likes of Mark Waugh and Matthew Elliott retired. Australia needs to cut back on international cricket for a few years and encourage their current and prospective internationals to spend some time playing in the county system in swinging conditions. They're becoming little more than flat track bullies.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Clarke now deliberately overbowling his quicks and ignoring Lyon - presumably another selection argument about Mitch Marsh that he lost.

What a mess that setup is. Wonder if he can hold on for the Oval or just retires after this game.

He'll finish the series at the minimum. For all the criticism, he's still passionate about the team. It's a shame this series is a shambles because he'll leave the team in much better condition than it was in when he inherited the captaincy.

 

[movingtarget]

Truly woeful performance by Australia but Broad did bowl well. As Ponting said when the ball is moving so much you have to defend not just take a swipe at it. Some terrible shot selections in that innings. Even leaving the ball seems to be a problem for Australia at the moment. It's not an ODI. Anyway they have been outplayed in three tests. Series gone. They seem to have lost the ability to play in English conditions and it's been like that for quite a while now although they did better in the last series with a few close games in England and that set the stage for the return series which they won convincingly. This is embarrassing and for all of the extra training Clarke is doing it is just not happening for him. But even Smith who has been great has gone backwards in the past two matches. Bring back Ashton Agar !

 

[wendybnt]

It's been a bit tense chez Wendy. Partner is a grumpy Aussie, kids are British by birth and just about old enough to know how to really stick the knife into their dad

Good to see Broad, the "smug Pommie cheat" get his revenge for this delightful piece of sore-losership from the Aussie press a couple of years ago...

 

[Pricey_sky]

3 wickets away from regaining the Ashes and stretching the Aussies barren run in England to 14 years since their last series win here.
I must admit I thought Australia were heavy favourites at the start so for England to be in this position is a superb achievement. Of course helped out by the Aussies being absolutely hopeless against the swinging ball. That being said credit to the bowling and fielding which have been top notch. Still slightly concerned about our batting which can be very brittle sometimes, we seem to rely heavily on Root to build partnerships. Guys like lythe, Buttler, Bell and Stokes need to be more consistant.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

The next series will be very interesting to see who is selected as batsmen.
Rogers is highly likely to retire and Voges, S. Marsh, Watson and Clarke should not be around in my view. Warner to open, Smith at number 4 and Mitch Marsh at 6 leaving 3 spots to fill. Cameron Bancroft perhaps as the opener, Khawaja or Burns at 3, the other one or Ferguson at 5 would be my choices. A very inexperienced side. Others to watch would be Head, Doolan, Handscomb and Maddinson.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

3 wickets away from regaining the Ashes and stretching the Aussies barren run in England to 14 years since their last series win here.
I must admit I thought Australia were heavy favourites at the start so for England to be in this position is a superb achievement. Of course helped out by the Aussies being absolutely hopeless against the swinging ball. That being said credit to the bowling and fielding which have been top notch. Still slightly concerned about our batting which can be very brittle sometimes, we seem to rely heavily on Root to build partnerships. Guys like lythe, Buttler, Bell and Stokes need to be more consistant.

The Aussies did better last time in England. After thrashing England in Australia it's hard to fathom that the conditions can mean so much. I think Ian Healy might be on to something. I think there might be problems in the dressing room as well just as England had in Australia. Haddin being dropped was supposed to be a very unpopular decision within the team after missing one test when his daughter was ill. Poor technique and some head problems I reckon. Even Smith who has clearly been their best batsman in the past 12 months has been poor except for one test. Plus the fact that England have picked it up in a big way. I think playing at home, the new coach and more self belief have made England a much different proposition. As Botham said, when they were in Australia they did not show up and that continued into the World Cup which was a disaster for England but they are obviously back on track now at least at home. Both Australia and England have been poor away from home in recent times.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

The Aussies did better last time in England. After thrashing England in Australia it's hard to fathom that the conditions can mean so much. I think Ian Healy might be on to something. I think there might be problems in the dressing room as well just as England had in Australia. Haddin being dropped was supposed to be a very unpopular decision within the team after missing one test when his daughter was ill. Poor technique and some head problems I reckon. Even Smith who has clearly been their best batsman in the past 12 months has been poor except for one test. Plus the fact that England have picked it up in a big way. I think playing at home, the new coach and more self belief have made England a much different proposition. As Botham said, when they were in Australia they did not show up and that continued into the World Cup which was a disaster for England but they are obviously back on track now at least at home. Both Australia and England have been poor away from home in recent times.

Yes its just one of those Tours where everything seems to go wrong both on and off the field. It is amazing how little things can be so disastrous when your away from home. As an England fan I've seen more than my fair share during the last 2 trips to Australia with the 5-0 whitewash and the awful World cup campaign.

It will be interesting to see the return series in 2 years.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

England have won 5 of the last 7 ashes. Australian's seem to be far too quick to declare themselves number 1, and just as quick to find excuses when it all goes wrong.

They're just not a great team. Smith's test record is entirely based on 1 year of good form. His Test average 1 year ago today was 40. You can have a good run with great hand eye co-ordination, but over a 15 year career technique matters and his is clearly flawed.

Clarke is now a sad shell of the player he was. After the openers there is nothing particularly impressive in the batting lineup. The bowlers are all decent, but not as good as the greats. Their averages and ICC rankings make clear that although capable of unplayable balls, they don't have that many unplayable spells, matches, series.

I hope they have some young talent hiding somewhere because half this team will be gone in 12 months.

England just need to find decent replacements for Lyth & Bairstow and they'll have a solid team with plenty of tread on the tyres.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

England have won 5 of the last 7 ashes. Australian's seem to be far too quick to declare themselves number 1, and just as quick to find excuses when it all goes wrong.

They're just not a great team. Smith's test record is entirely based on 1 year of good form. His Test average 1 year ago today was 40. You can have a good run with great hand eye co-ordination, but over a 15 year career technique matters and his is clearly flawed.

Clarke is now a sad shell of the player he was. After the openers there is nothing particularly impressive in the batting lineup. The bowlers are all decent, but not as good as the greats. Their averages and ICC rankings make clear that although capable of unplayable balls, they don't have that many unplayable spells, matches, series.

I hope they have some young talent hiding somewhere because half this team will be gone in 12 months.

England just need to find decent replacements for Lyth & Bairstow and they'll have a solid team with plenty of tread on the tyres.

Historically I don't think either team is great. Australia got to number one on the strength of series wins against England South Africa and India. They did not declare themselves, they got the results then got another World Cup win and the momentum looked set to continue but the wheels have fallen off. Compare either of these teams to the the team Steve Waugh captained and they both fall way short. I think Vaughan's English team was much better than this one.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Jamie Siddons, Michael Divenuto, Jamie Cox, David Hussey and Stuart Law were better batsmen than almost all the options Australia will have available after this series when Clarke and Rogers are gone. It could be arguable that they could even have been better batsmen than Smith yet they played 1 test innings between them. Others like Matthew Elliot, Brad Hodge, Darren Lehman and Martin Love all had limited careers as well for various reasons and would walk into this side. The Australian production line of batsmen has stopped.

 

[blackcat]

It's been a bit tense chez Wendy. Partner is a grumpy Aussie, kids are British by birth and just about old enough to know how to really stick the knife into their dad

Good to see Broad, the "smug Pommie cheat" get his revenge for this delightful piece of sore-losership from the Aussie press a couple of years ago...

favourite sportsman of all time is Craig Mcmillan. primarily cos he always got up the aussies and gave it back to them in spades, and did not have a traditional athletic physique. more a traditional cricketer physique, like greg ritchie and david boon.

 

[blackcat]

no one has mentioned the new cricket bats and edges. I think these new bats might penalise the batsmen when they are as $hit as the australians and keep finding the edge. The new width of the bats are about twice as large, and all the edges have flown to the slips, in english conditions. No edges falling short, and many going to a third and fourth slip. I reckon I am on to something, that I have not seen mentioned anywhere.

 

[wendybnt]

There are a whole load of second hand ones for sale tonight.

Barely used.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Jamie Siddons, Michael Divenuto, Jamie Cox, David Hussey and Stuart Law were better batsmen than almost all the options Australia will have available after this series when Clarke and Rogers are gone. It could be arguable that they could even have been better batsmen than Smith yet they played 1 test innings between them. Others like Matthew Elliot, Brad Hodge, Darren Lehman and Martin Love all had limited careers as well for various reasons and would walk into this side. The Australian production line of batsmen has stopped.

At ODIs we are still the best in the world although New Zealand have improved a lot but of course that does not translate to test cricket always. When we were dominant in tests in the Warne/McGrath years we did not always win the World Cup but even that is not always an indicator. The fact that South Africa have never won it says it all. The World Cup is a tournament over a month or so and it does not mean the best team always wins. The last one seemed more predictable, there was little doubt that NZ and Australia would play the final.

The fact that Khawaja is being considered says it all. He and Phil Hughes and many other players were not given the chances many others received and the new players were always seen as the scapegoats for the losses. Doolan and Bailey were not around for long either. I think Watson will be lucky to ever get back and for me he has always been a better ODI player than a test player. At the same time Maxwell and Faulkner are very good ODI players and have to be considered for the test team. Warner was the same style of player when he first made the test team and still scores quickly or not at all typical of many ODI players. I think they will use the upcoming summer series' against the Windies and NZ to blood the new players. Cummins should bowl in the Fifth Test as well, it's a dead rubber anyway and Starc has injury issues. Or maybe just play an extra bowler, Cummin's batting won't be worse than anyone else's for Australia at the moment !

 

[blackcat]

Re:

There are a whole load of second hand ones for sale tonight.

Barely used.

zing!

touche WBNT


devil's advocate: I think they could have sold them "as new" or "new" on ebay.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

The fact that Khawaja is being considered says it all. He and Phil Hughes and many other players were not given the chances many others received and the new players were always seen as the scapegoats for the losses. Doolan and Bailey were not around for long either. I think Watson will be lucky to ever get back and for me he has always been a better ODI player than a test player. At the same time Maxwell and Faulkner are very good ODI players and have to be considered for the test team. Warner was the same style of player when he first made the test team and still scores quickly or not at all typical of many ODI players. I think they will use the upcoming summer series' against the Windies and NZ to blood the new players. Cummins should bowl in the Fifth Test as well, it's a dead rubber anyway and Starc has injury issues. Or maybe just play an extra bowler, Cummin's batting won't be worse than anyone else's for Australia at the moment !

Watson should have been given the chance to be a full-time opener, and no bowling. He averaged over 40 opening, he could take advantage of the field up, and a new ball. Otherwise, he was an ordinary bat, and ordinary all-rounder.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

The fact that Khawaja is being considered says it all. He and Phil Hughes and many other players were not given the chances many others received and the new players were always seen as the scapegoats for the losses. Doolan and Bailey were not around for long either. I think Watson will be lucky to ever get back and for me he has always been a better ODI player than a test player. At the same time Maxwell and Faulkner are very good ODI players and have to be considered for the test team. Warner was the same style of player when he first made the test team and still scores quickly or not at all typical of many ODI players. I think they will use the upcoming summer series' against the Windies and NZ to blood the new players. Cummins should bowl in the Fifth Test as well, it's a dead rubber anyway and Starc has injury issues. Or maybe just play an extra bowler, Cummin's batting won't be worse than anyone else's for Australia at the moment !

Watson should have been given the chance to be a full-time opener, and no bowling. He averaged over 40 opening, he could take advantage of the field up, and a new ball. Otherwise, he was an ordinary bat, and ordinary all-rounder.

Watson did do well initially as an opening batsman but they dropped him down the order to try turn his form around and it did not work. The fact that most of his injuries came from bowling was not ideal when they saw him mainly as an all rounder not a batsman and his bowling has come in handy sometimes but it looks like he is going to be another victim. Ponting seemed to think he deserved another shot but was not convinced he was going to get one. Clarke has stated that he was not asked to step down but I bet he felt the pressure over his shoulder and it was just a matter of time before the conversation happened. He has nothing left to prove and just like Ponting, not everyone can leave on a high but I'm sure the World Cup win was sweet when there doubts he would even play. But of course Ashes Tests are the dominant contest for Australians and the English and this defeat had to hurt after the whitewash in Australia but even Lehman admitted that Australia played better in the previous series in England and that was obvious to most people but it wasn't just the batsmen it was the bowlers as well. Starc and Johnson were not as effective nor any of the others.