Critérium du Dauphiné 2025, June 8 - 15

[dobrien]

It was one of the best climbing performances. Mayo peaked too soon while Armstrong was still far from his best.

I'm an american (sorry) but never liked Armstrong at all; when Mayo wiped the floor with him at the Dauphine TT I have to say I was pretty pumped about it! Then deflated in July...

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

So he pretty much went at the same pace or was slightly faster than Remco on the climb (Pog probably lost time to Remco on the flat part before the time check). Quite surprising to me because I thought he was suffering on the climb.

To me Remco didn't exactly look "suffering" on the climb when inhaling his first "pacer".
Remco is still massive up such type shorter climbs. Rythm & style was excellent all the way.
Best TT low-position I have ever seen (not only this stage, but Remco's development to present TT position), holding it steady, nomatter flat, up or down. Excellent.
I'm becoming a fan.

 

[dobrien]

I'm old enough to remember when Jean-François Bernard won the Mount Ventoux tt at the 87 Tour, taking yellow, only to fade in the race with all the weight of France resting on his shoulders.

I am unfortunately also MORE than old enough to remember this; that was a hell of a performance that day. By all accounts he was/is a pretty nice guy (at least from what I've read) and as I recall was vastly happier being a great super-domestique rather than leader.

It's sometimes easy to get stuck on who is pushing what watts, the 'physically' alien nature of the top GT riders, but the mental part is every bit as huge. Waking up every single day, ready to battle regardless of how you feel; you have to be a stone-cold killer to make it at the tippy-top.

Sorry for the off-topic posts, these are fascinating little sidebars imho; it's 0340 where I live right now so that's my excuse!

 

[dobrien]

To me Remco didn't exactly look "suffering" on the climb when inhaling his first "pacer".
Remco is still massive up such type shorter climbs. Rythm & style was excellent all the way.
Best TT low-position I have ever seen (not only this stage, but Remco's development to present TT position), holding it steady, nomatter flat, up or down. Excellent.
I'm becoming a fan.

Agreed. He actually didn't 'appear' quite as fast as Jonas because he was simply riding so smoothly imho... his position really is incredible.

 

[topcat]

I'm old enough to remember when Jean-François Bernard won the Mount Ventoux tt at the 87 Tour, taking yellow, only to fade in the race with all the weight of France resting on his shoulders.

The 1987 tdf was a victory for France anyway. Stephen Roche won and he was at that time married to a French woman. The French were touching greatness. I started university shortly after that, inspired by Roche (small fellas can be winners too).

 

[wirral]

Breakaway victory today. Am I allowed to include the secondary break of the day.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I'm quite tired of these backloaded stages. What's the point of the last 3 stages being MTF in a 1 week race, instead of spreading them throughout the week. Must be a French thing.

At least they put the hardest stages on the weekend. They seem to often forget that in the GTs.

 

[Lequack]

UAE backstage pass

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgeW_pCF5kU

 

[topcat]

Even if Pog never wins anything again, he's had a great career. Pog should probably team up with Kuss at the retirement home and share stories and put used matches in boxes.

 

[search]

Breakaway victory today. Am I allowed to include the secondary break of the day.

Bernard just said that Trek aims for another win for Milan today, so they will try to control the stage.

Hard to see him hanging on in the end, though - unless his climbing shape improved significantly over the past two days.

 

[Netserk]

Mostly tailwind as they ride past Villars-les-Dombes, but there's a 7 km section and a 3 km section beforehand with a fair bit of crosswinds. Partly exposed, partly sheltered roads.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Bernard just said that Trek aims for another win for Milan today, so they will try to control the stage.

Hard to see him hanging on in the end, though - unless his climbing shape improved significantly over the past two days.

If it was Pedersen I'd understand it, but the way this race has been going it really is hard to see how that would work. But I guess as this is the last chance to do anything with Milan in this race, they might as well try.

 

[Boehmand]

Once you're rolling that seems true based on fixed gear riding. That's all good but longer cranks and bigger gears allow a lower cadence. That can keep pulse lower if you're trained for that.
Curious to know what Remco was using. Pogacar and Jonas were reputedly on 165cm cranks. That would be odd that two guys with that height differential would use similar crank lengths. Judging from Remco's cadence uphill he was more comfortable at high rpm than the other two appeared to be. Anyone know what his setup was?

I was specifically referring to using W/kg to compare riders - on different length crank arms - it may not be a valid a comparison?

Danish press reported Vingegaard was riding 150mm on his TT bike yesterday, so that is quite a bit shorter than Pogacar's 165mm (if that number is correct).

 

[Boehmand]

No. Power (Watts) is simply force (torque) multiplied by speed (rpm). Like two car engines with the same power but one generates peak power at lower RPM. This would be like a rider with lower cadence but longer cranks.

Longer cranks increase the leverage (force) but at the trade-off of lower RPM all else being equal.

Riders who can spin longer cranks generally generate less force (torque). Likewise, riders who can't spin longer cranks use shorter cranks but have higher cadence. When Pogacar switched down to 165mm cranks last year his higher cadence was noticeable to the eye (while climbing anyway).

How are the Ws practically measured on the bike?

My point is that if the length of the crank arm changes the force you push the pedals with - while your speed and weight remain constant - wouldn't that skew a head to head W/kg comparison?

 

[Boehmand]

A Dane saying another Dane will win. If they ask Mohoric, he'll probably say Pogacar will win 😅

There is that possibility but context is important.

This wasn't a journalist asking a question and him politely giving the "Danish" PC answer.

It was Pedersen loosely talking on a podcast with one of his mates, after the stage 1 at Dauphine.

 

[Boehmand]

It doesn't affect watts because energy equals force times distance. Riding in a different gear doesn't affect watts requirement for the same reason.

Crank arm length is more about in what range of motion force generation is most efficient, and in the case of TT how aggressive your position can be without the upswing of the pedal putting your knee in your chest.

I think you are all misunderstanding my question.

If changing the length of the crank arm, changes the force applied (because you are pushing the pedal softer/harder) - for the same time/distance - why wouldn't that skew a W/kg comparison to someone on a different length crank arms over the same time/distance?

 

[Boehmand]

Bernard just said that Trek aims for another win for Milan today, so they will try to control the stage.

Hard to see him hanging on in the end, though - unless his climbing shape improved significantly over the past two days.

5.4K at 4.6% should absolutely be possible for Milan - unless the climb has a really steep section for a fair bit?

But ofviously if some other team (like EF) decides to drill it on the whole series of climbs to compound the difficulties for the heavier guys, he may have dropped off before then.

 

[Brullnux]

Bernard just said that Trek aims for another win for Milan today, so they will try to control the stage.

Hard to see him hanging on in the end, though - unless his climbing shape improved significantly over the past two days.

I think that despite the shark-tooth appearance, this is more doable than Stage 3. The final climb has a 1.5km section at 7%, but it's 30km from the finish, and that's basically the only part of today over 6%.

 

[search]

my comment wasn't so much about the difficulty of the climbs, but more about Milan looking really bad so far.

But sure, it's a stage which normally should be within reach for him. Maybe he just needed a couple of days after getting back from altitude.

 

[Brullnux]

my comment wasn't so much about the difficulty of the climbs, but more about Milan looking really bad so far.

But sure, it's a stage which normally should be within reach for him. Maybe he just needed a couple of days after getting back from altitude.

We'll see, I agree that he hasn't looked good so far but I think Lidl-Trek are right to target the stage win today.

 

[Faserr]

I think it got roadblocked after 3 riders were in the front and now teams like EF and Cofidis are unhappy.

 

[Red Rick]

I think you are all misunderstanding my question.

If changing the length of the crank arm, changes the force applied (because you are pushing the pedal softer/harder) - for the same time/distance - why wouldn't that skew a W/kg comparison to someone on a different length crank arms over the same time/distance?

It doesn't affect W/kg, which is a measure of output. The main idea is that things like crank arm length and pedaling frequency may influence the efficiency, so you would do the same output of W/kg while consuming less oxygen and burning less carbohydrates.

 

[Heston]

Tronchon attacking now. Weird, he would be one of the favorites for a reduced bunch sprint.

 

[Netserk]

Let's see if the wind is strong enough. About to find out.

 

[Boehmand]

It doesn't affect W/kg, which is a measure of output. The main idea is that things like crank arm length and pedaling frequency may influence the efficiency, so you would do the same output of W/kg while consuming less oxygen and burning less carbohydrates.

How is the W actually measured on the bike?

I assumed it was a measurement of pressure on the crank?