Cycle of Lies

[sniper]

Lim can't keep track - he said to Benson that it was traumatic and abusive to work for Floyd

it's one of the saddest excuses i've heard in a long time.
lim should 'man up', as millar would say.

 

[Kennf1]

Here's Lim lying his *** off at the 2010 Tour of California. ZERO credibility.



http://www.bicycling.com/video/atoc-allen-lim-addresses-allegations#/video/all

 

[Benotti69]

Taylor Phinney and others regurlarly train with Lim in Colorado.

 

[orbeas]

Cycle of Lies...

Whilst reading a review of the book I saw this link which relates to US Postal and the Armstrong saga..
It may have been brought up before but an interesting read especially if like me you live outside the USA and written by a non cyclist ??

http://www.fredmauney.com/armstrong_fraud.htm

 

[blackcat]

problem with liars, they have no touchstone record to remember their lies. At least with the truth, you have the record of memory. Unless with the lie, your have the memory of the recording of the lie.

So makes it easy for The Clinic Dozen PI, a gestalt of the Clinic, the Dirty Dozen, and Magnum, to triangulate his lies and contradictions

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I really think she missed on the title of the book. "Circle of jerks" would have been much better.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

problem with liars, they have no touchstone record to remember their lies. Atleast with the truth, you have the record of memory. Unless with the lie, your have the memory of the recording of the lie.

so makes it easy for The Clinic Dozen PI, a gestalt of the Clinic, the Dirty Dozen, and Magnum, to triangulate his lies and contradictions

I'm just amazed that people haven't figured out that "The Clinic 12" is the nickname for my penis.<- I really shouldn't have written that.

 

[blackcat]

I'm just amazed that people haven't figured out that "The Clinic 12" is the nickname for my penis.<- I really shouldn't have written that.

is that metric or imperial.

metric, p'raps Asian? Imperial, respect.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

is that metric or imperial.

metric, p'raps Asian? Imperial, respect.

It's based on liters of blood.

 

[TourOfTexas]

I'm just amazed that people haven't figured out that "The Clinic 12" is the nickname for my penis.<- I really shouldn't have written that.

lol, 12cm is almost a standard deviation below average....

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

It's based on liters of blood.

Metric tonnes....

 

[ChewbaccaD]

lol, 12cm is almost a standard deviation below average....

Day late and a dollar short per usual you are.

 

[Bosco10]

My opinion based on what I know and again, this ain't the hospital room so I don't know every detail. USADA invited him in to talk - I don't know what was said behind closed doors but wada code states he could've had 6 months suspension. However, wonderboy started threatening usada, yelling, etc. and the meeting went nowhere.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/03/08/former-colorado-gov-ritter-hosted-lance-armstrong-meeting/

Thanks. I'm aware of that December 2012 meeting, but I was referring to the events of June 2012, when the USADA avalanche first started. Lance claims he was treated unfairly back then. However, in my opinion, he wasn't about to cooperate with USADA, no matter what was offered (in June 2012). I suppose we will never know the full scoop. It's a grey area, and Lance likes grey areas where he can color in what he wants.

 

[86TDFWinner]

When it's a competition between two liars, in this case Landis and Lim, I'll go with whoever has the check receipt to back up payment(s) made-

Now, about those refrigerated panniers...

LOL, me too, that's why I backed Floyd this time.

 

[johnslankas]

Fortunately, Mauney's comments (that at one point appeared on all of the reviews) have all been deleted.

Mauney's got an axe to grind. I pity the poor clerk that has to read his brief.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Too strange that now Lim is calling Floyd a bully..
wow..abuse and bullying from Floyd. ..and then Lim goes into the Armstrong and RS camp w intentions to change them

something doesn't smell right to me

And yes, TP hangs out at Skratch when he's in town..a whole following of Lim around here…

 

[86TDFWinner]

Too strange that now Lim is calling Floyd a bully..
wow..abuse and bullying from Floyd. ..and then Lim goes into the Armstrong and RS camp w intentions to change them

something doesn't smell right to me

And yes, TP hangs out at Skratch when he's in town..a whole following of Lim around here…

I'm really surprised TP's dad allows him anywhere near Lim or Carmichael. I get the 7 Eleven connection w/Davis & CC, but if I were Davis, I wouldn't allow my son anywhere near those 2.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I really think she missed on the title of the book. "Circle of jerks" would have been much better.

"Circle of Jerks - It was all fun and games until someone lost a testicle"

 

[ChewbaccaD]

"Circle of Jerks - It was all fun and games until someone lost a testicle"

Brilliant!

 

[GuyIncognito]

He had data to show Floyd was clean? Did he say that. Would be interesting if he did because we've been hearing a lot of that type of argument lately.

He did. I specifically remember him saying the Stage 17 ride was not unusual because 'Floyd did that several times in training'

 

[jam pants]

Taylor Phinney and others regurlarly train with Lim in Colorado.

That's pretty sad. What were his parents thinking sending him down the path they did?

Lim comes across as a mealy-mouthed twerp.

Edit: Man, Landis unleashes on Wiggans in the CN article. Love it!

 

[skidmark]

Thanks for replying.

I do get if Vaughters was a nominated lay person representing the Garmin riders and striking a deal on their behalf. I get that.

The problem becomes was Vaughters was a witness in what could have been a hearing but also had vested interest in his riders receiving limited bans. He had vested interesting because he was a team owner who profits from their inclusion in races. And has a vested interest in all his riders saying the same thing.

The unified "doping stopped in 2006" was the oddity that brought this point to the fore. Team owner arranged a statue or limitation gang bang to limit sanctions.

I'm with you. The means were worthy to get their man. Lance has slipped the net so many times they could only get him if all ducks were lined up.

Furthermore and using Hesjedal as a reference point it appeared the special relationship occurred again.

Vaughters in his MBA would probably be studying a subject on business ethics. Contained in that unit would be the importance on separation of duties. Whereby you should never have one person making decisions for all. That's how fraud occurs.

Here we have one man whom was a witness making the the decisions on what the other witnesses may say, whom also is a team owner. Doping and it's management needs to be separated from riders and team owners. Red flag.

Hesjedal was discovered due to Rasmussen. Are there more?

We may never know.

I don't bring this all up as defence of Armstrong. But for the reason that I seriously doubt any other team manager has such an arrangement with their local anti-doping agency.

Here I am again, a day later (and a dollar shorter?). Nevertheless, I appreciate the reply and clarification.

I get what you're saying now. There's definitely an obvious conflict of interest there, perhaps one I shouldn't be brushing off so lightly. But I guess that's kind of the realpolitik of these things - it's practical for Vaughters to lead the way in terms of talking to USADA, and while he's there, hey it makes sense to negotiate with Travis about the guys he's representing. And, well, I guess they trust him too, so if he tells them 'good news guys, you've got a deal with Tygart' then that makes sense too.

Of course, while I can understand how that happens, I can also understand how a series of practical and incremental decisions in the 1990s led Tyler Hamilton to dope. That doesn't make it great. The best I can say is that I'd rather have a team leader who wants riders to talk to the relevant authorities than a rider fighting against the status quo to do so. I don't think that's irrelevant. But yeah, there are lines that I think should be drawn vis-a-vis conflict of interest, and I agree with you that this crosses some kind of line there.

I'm not ready to ascribe to Vaughters some sort of team-wide dictatorial party line whereby everyone stopped doping in x year, as you seem to be insinuating... I don't believe Hesjedal, but I do believe that many other riders could very well be telling the truth - after all, if nothing else this makes it clear that the Garmin bunch didn't talk to Levi and George before confessing, and if that's the case, why do they both follow a similar script? A simple explanation is that maybe there was, in fact, some kind of 'truce', but I'm not jumping in that boat with two feet, that's for sure. It's certainly possible that each rider independently decided that it benefited him to say he stopped so many years ago to minimize scrutiny, and they all happened to think of the same date (which would be extra funny, because it further casts Levi as the dope who doesn't get it ala toto cartoons, saying he doped through 2007... 'Levi, man, 2006 was the cool year to say you stopped doping').

Either way, I think your key point is 'we may never know', and here I agree. I think that's the important point - if JV says 'cool TT, talk to my guys independently' and doesn't guarantee them immunity, TT might not get full cooperation (although he did from much more reluctant parties so probably), but it has more integrity than something shadowed by the wheeling and dealing that happened.

edit: I should clarify my second last paragraph - my initial reaction is that Levi has to be lying through his teeth (see: 2008 Vuelta), and I already thought George had very little moral fiber (but luckily enough cowardice to open up to USADA) before Betsy emphatically said it a few times this week. But then, what gets me is, like, why did they say they stopped then? Why wouldn't they say they stopped over 8 years ago to try to avoid penalty? It just doesn't really make sense to me. But then, Levi almost winning the 2008 Vuelta clean makes less sense to me.

 

[MacRoadie]

That's pretty sad. What were his parents thinking sending him down the path they did?

Two words: Rice Cakes

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/12/news/video-learn-to-make-allen-lims-famous-rice-cakes_200812

 

[skidmark]

Too strange that now Lim is calling Floyd a bully..
wow..abuse and bullying from Floyd. ..and then Lim goes into the Armstrong and RS camp w intentions to change them

something doesn't smell right to me

And yes, TP hangs out at Skratch when he's in town..a whole following of Lim around here…

While to me Lim's entire demeanor as it comes across in his wording gives me the feeling that he's lying through his teeth about a lot of things, I'd be careful to write off claims of bullying too quickly (which I don't necessarily think you're doing in this post, it's just the latest to respond to with my general point).

After all, Floyd is the guy who tried to blackmail Greg LeMond with knowledge of his child abuse. I love Floyd's pithiness and don't-give-a-$hit attitude as of late, but I can't forget that this was one of the most disgusting and bullying moves I've seen in doping-related history. I would be entirely unsurprised if he treated Lim like crap sometimes. That said, it's also evident to me that Lim is likely clinging to that piece of relative truth to deflect from everything else and muddy the waters, which is stupid and also reprehensible. Maybe the easiest axiom to subscribe to in professional sport, that they're all liars and a$$holes, applies here.

 

[The Hitch]

While to me Lim's entire demeanor as it comes across in his wording gives me the feeling that he's lying through his teeth about a lot of things, I'd be careful to write off claims of bullying too quickly (which I don't necessarily think you're doing in this post, it's just the latest to respond to with my general point).

After all, Floyd is the guy who tried to blackmail Greg LeMond with knowledge of his child abuse. I love Floyd's pithiness and don't-give-a-$hit attitude as of late, but I can't forget that this was one of the most disgusting and bullying moves I've seen in doping-related history. I would be entirely unsurprised if he treated Lim like crap sometimes. That said, it's also evident to me that Lim is likely clinging to that piece of relative truth to deflect from everything else and muddy the waters, which is stupid and also reprehensible. Maybe the easiest axiom to subscribe to in professional sport, that they're all liars and a$$holes, applies here.

That's exactly what I thought. Floyd was no saint. He did a lot of bad ****, and I think he can be forgiven for much of it because he came clean like a man, admitted it, helped do some good for the bad, apologized to Greg at least, and hasn't been trying to act all sanctimonious since but kept quiet.

But he was a bully, an evil person. So some of what Lim said might very well be true.