Dan Martin discussion thread

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

What team do you think Martin should go to next year? Trek?

BMC had loads of guys who made the split today, and they don't have anyone to compete with him for GC leadership.

Except for the guy that took Dannyboy out on the descent from Mont du Chat?

 

[Hexagon]

What team do you think Martin should go to next year? Trek?

Katyusha only has Zakarin, spot would be open at Astana if Aru leaves to UAE as rumoured.

 

[jmdirt]

DM's team showed today that their priority is the green jersey. They pretty much told him: "You can't win la TdF, and we don'y care about your minor placing.".

 

[Eagle]

Re:

DM's team showed today that their priority is the green jersey. They pretty much told him: "You can't win la TdF, and we don'y care about your minor placing.".

Stybar and Vermote are sick, not much else they could have done

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

DM's team showed today that their priority is the green jersey. They pretty much told him: "You can't win la TdF, and we don'y care about your minor placing.".

Stybar and Vermote are sick, not much else they could have done

The commentator only said that two were helping MK, and this from the front page: "When sprinter Marcel Kittel was dropped early on, however, part of the team was delegated to stay with him...". DM did say something about sick, but I thought that he was referring to PG and his departure. If those two are sick, that changes my view obviously.

 

[Eagle]

Re: Re:

DM's team showed today that their priority is the green jersey. They pretty much told him: "You can't win la TdF, and we don'y care about your minor placing.".

Stybar and Vermote are sick, not much else they could have done

The commentator only said that two were helping MK, and this from the front page: "When sprinter Marcel Kittel was dropped early on, however, part of the team was delegated to stay with him...". DM did say something about sick, but I thought that he was referring to PG and his departure. If those two are sick, that changes my view obviously.

Martin said they are sick

 

[Valv.Piti]

Its pretty obvious that Dan Martin needs to to to another team by now. Not for the crash and today, he would have been right up there. And who knows how the crash affected him - I'm pretty sure a 100% healthy Martin had won that sprint on Peyragudes. Must be really frustrating to be in his shoes, always animating the race, but has nothing to show for it in 16 and 17.

 

[happytramp]

Re:

Its pretty obvious that Dan Martin needs to to to another team by now. Not for the crash and today, he would have been right up there. And who knows how the crash affected him - I'm pretty sure a 100% healthy Martin had won that sprint on Peyragudes. Must be really frustrating to be in his shoes, always animating the race, but has nothing to show for it in 16 and 17.

I agree. Now's a good time to leave. They need to ditch a few riders for budgetary reasons and he could do with a change.

 

[lenric]

Re:

Its pretty obvious that Dan Martin needs to to to another team by now. Not for the crash and today, he would have been right up there. And who knows how the crash affected him - I'm pretty sure a 100% healthy Martin had won that sprint on Peyragudes. Must be really frustrating to be in his shoes, always animating the race, but has nothing to show for it in 16 and 17.

If his back problems are in the lower back region, whether they're muscular, or not, his performance is really hindered. I have usually 2/3 pain crisis per year in my lower back and there are days where even lying on the bed aches, let alone being sitted 4/5 hours straight. Obviously he's not that bad, but I 100% believe he'd be way closer to Froome than he is now.

 

[PlanZ]

Re: Re:

Its pretty obvious that Dan Martin needs to to to another team by now. Not for the crash and today, he would have been right up there. And who knows how the crash affected him - I'm pretty sure a 100% healthy Martin had won that sprint on Peyragudes. Must be really frustrating to be in his shoes, always animating the race, but has nothing to show for it in 16 and 17.

If his back problems are in the lower back region, whether they're muscular, or not, his performance is really hindered. I have usually 2/3 pain crisis per year in my lower back and there are days where even lying on the bed aches, let alone being sitted 4/5 hours straight. Obviously he's not that bad, but I 100% believe he'd be way closer to Froome than he is now.

But surely if Martin had not crashed and therefore had been closer to Froome after that stage, Sky would have raced differently, or at least adopted different tactics in response.
We just don't know, sadly.

 

[DanielSong39]

Martin lost Bauer's wheel near the end so he can't blame the team. Now if Bauer had failed that's another story.

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

[quote="

I am reading the team, including Martin, has a virus. Hopefully it is just a stomach bug in which case they should come good by tomorrow if the rest well tonight.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

Its pretty obvious that Dan Martin needs to to to another team by now. Not for the crash and today, he would have been right up there. And who knows how the crash affected him - I'm pretty sure a 100% healthy Martin had won that sprint on Peyragudes. Must be really frustrating to be in his shoes, always animating the race, but has nothing to show for it in 16 and 17.

If his back problems are in the lower back region, whether they're muscular, or not, his performance is really hindered. I have usually 2/3 pain crisis per year in my lower back and there are days where even lying on the bed aches, let alone being sitted 4/5 hours straight. Obviously he's not that bad, but I 100% believe he'd be way closer to Froome than he is now.

But surely if Martin had not crashed and therefore had been closer to Froome after that stage, Sky would have raced differently, or at least adopted different tactics in response.
We just don't know, sadly.

Well, clearly, I will give you that. But so far Froome has not been able to win time on Martin apart from ITT, crashes and echelons.

 

[vedrafjord]

Re:

Martin lost Bauer's wheel near the end so he can't blame the team. Now if Bauer had failed that's another story.

I can't find a full video for confirmation but I'm pretty sure I saw Bauer on the front driving it about a minute before the split happened, with Martin nowhere near him. They didn't look they were on the same page at any point during the crucial section.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

Its pretty obvious that Dan Martin needs to to to another team by now. Not for the crash and today, he would have been right up there. And who knows how the crash affected him - I'm pretty sure a 100% healthy Martin had won that sprint on Peyragudes. Must be really frustrating to be in his shoes, always animating the race, but has nothing to show for it in 16 and 17.

If his back problems are in the lower back region, whether they're muscular, or not, his performance is really hindered. I have usually 2/3 pain crisis per year in my lower back and there are days where even lying on the bed aches, let alone being sitted 4/5 hours straight. Obviously he's not that bad, but I 100% believe he'd be way closer to Froome than he is now.

But surely if Martin had not crashed and therefore had been closer to Froome after that stage, Sky would have raced differently, or at least adopted different tactics in response.
We just don't know, sadly.

If he hadn't crashed, Sky wouldn't have given him the freedom to go on those 10-15 second raids that he's thrown in at the end of each stage. But if he hadn't crashed, he wouldn't have needed to go on those late 10-15 second raids. If he could have sat on for the past week, 20-30s out of yellow but letting Froome, Bardet and Aru do all the scrapping over the lead, he'd be a lot fresher and less tired going into the 2 big Alpine stages, with the biggest mountains of the Tour, which were always going to be his biggest challenge in this race.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

Martin lost Bauer's wheel near the end so he can't blame the team. Now if Bauer had failed that's another story.

I can't find a full video for confirmation but I'm pretty sure I saw Bauer on the front driving it about a minute before the split happened, with Martin nowhere near him. They didn't look they were on the same page at any point during the crucial section.

When I came in, Martin was off the back of the MJ group, with Meintjes and a few others, and Bauer went to the front of that group and went full gas. I think a BMC rider held Bauer's wheel, but Martin couldn't (and nobody else came over the top to close the gap). Bauer motored on for another km at least, trying to catch the lead group, not realizing the whole time that he didn't have his team leader with him. Then he was seen sitting up and banging on his handlebars as if it was someone else's fault than he hadn't checked that he was pacing the guy he was supposed to be pacing.

 

[DanielSong39]

I still fail to see how this is Bauer's fault. His job is to catch the front peloton and Martin's job is to stay on his wheel.

 

[happytramp]

Re:

I still fail to see how this is Bauer's fault. His job is to catch the front peloton and Martin's job is to stay on his wheel.

Yeah but he should probably check to make sure the guy is actually on his wheel before drilling to catch the peloton... Not saying it's wasn't Dan's fault but Bauer should probably have checked.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

I still fail to see how this is Bauer's fault. His job is to catch the front peloton and Martin's job is to stay on his wheel.

First Bauer went too fast for Martin to follow. That's not 100% Bauer's fault, but he went quite a way without checking to see if Martin was on board. So he should have at least looked over his shoulder after about 100m to see if his leader was there.

Then he blew up.

So not only was his pace that dropped Martin too fast for Martin to follow, it was too fast for him to maintain.

So instead of trying to limit his losses with 2 engines for the remaining 8 or so kms, Martin was on his own, losing another 2-3 seconds per km all the way to the finish.

 

[Eagle]

Re: Re:

Martin lost Bauer's wheel near the end so he can't blame the team. Now if Bauer had failed that's another story.

I can't find a full video for confirmation but I'm pretty sure I saw Bauer on the front driving it about a minute before the split happened, with Martin nowhere near him. They didn't look they were on the same page at any point during the crucial section.

When I came in, Martin was off the back of the MJ group, with Meintjes and a few others, and Bauer went to the front of that group and went full gas. I think a BMC rider held Bauer's wheel, but Martin couldn't (and nobody else came over the top to close the gap). Bauer motored on for another km at least, trying to catch the lead group, not realizing the whole time that he didn't have his team leader with him. Then he was seen sitting up and banging on his handlebars as if it was someone else's fault than he hadn't checked that he was pacing the guy he was supposed to be pacing.

I thought it was meintjes on Bauers wheel, could be wrong tho

 

[Galic Ho]

While changing teams would appear to look good for Martin, Quickstep are a good environment.

Uran, almost won the Giro on that squad.

Joining Garmin/Cannondale, saw his quality in races deteriorate. Sure, he's doing great this Tour, but Martin was on that squad.

Their roles and fortunes appeared to reverse dramatically when both riders switched teams and positions.

Martin, whilst he hasn't won in the Ardennes, has been super consistent and help at bay by Valverde, a once in a generation rider. Remove Valverde, and Dan's palmares would be really juicy right now.

He's on a good team. The squad works for him and Alaphilippe (I know that spelling is probably wrong) during April, and yes, they did not work for Gilbert. That's saying something when Gilbert, on form, is on your squad.

Could he get more GC help? Yes.

But Dan right now, is pretty much the gutsiest GC rider. He actually has been making moves.

I remember a time at Garmin when if there was a crash, my first question was "Is Dan Martin down?" ... such was the frequency of his misfortune.

Glad that's over. He is a changed rider. He attacks, he tries, he doesn't complain and still, with plenty of excuses to not try...tries his hardest and gets time.

So yes, perhaps on Astana or Katusha he'd get a bit more support. But I do like Quickstep and something in that environment has brought him change. I suggest, that unless it's broken and the team is overall happy, then he should stay with them. Maybe ride the Vuelta afterwards. Go with the young fellas they are sending and try his pedigree there.

All the other GC rivals, could learn something from him.

Nibali, Contador and Martin...all seem to want to gain time and win. More than their rivals.

Froome is not in the same category...he's often leading already and maintains it. He has that fire to win...whether we like it or not is irrelevant, it works. Dan tries to push himself and get time from a different place in the race, but the self belief is similar.

It's simple; riding for Quickstep, he believes in himself. Really believes in himself. You can see it in how he rides. It's called Panache. Some people have a lot of it (Valverde and Sagan...Kittel this year)...others have small doses that drip from a tap...Dan Martin squeezes the pipes and forces as much out as he can get. Doesn't have as much as Valverde or Sagan, but he milks what he has.

Fans notice this. Fans cheer for this. That is what makes cycling great to watch and participate in. Thanks Dan Martin for believing...keep it up. You'll strike gold soon.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I still fail to see how this is Bauer's fault. His job is to catch the front peloton and Martin's job is to stay on his wheel.

Yeah but he should probably check to make sure the guy is actually on his wheel before drilling to catch the peloton... Not saying it's wasn't Dan's fault but Bauer should probably have checked.

Yeah Bauer was going through too hard and making it difficult for Martin. That's not helpful for a rider who is already struggling. It was a bad error to be caught out but all it takes is for one rider to leave a gap and the break is on and that's what happened.

 

[Eagle]

Re:

While changing teams would appear to look good for Martin, Quickstep are a good environment.

Uran, almost won the Giro on that squad.

Joining Garmin/Cannondale, saw his quality in races deteriorate. Sure, he's doing great this Tour, but Martin was on that squad.

Their roles and fortunes appeared to reverse dramatically when both riders switched teams and positions.

Martin, whilst he hasn't won in the Ardennes, has been super consistent and help at bay by Valverde, a once in a generation rider. Remove Valverde, and Dan's palmares would be really juicy right now.

He's on a good team. The squad works for him and Alaphilippe (I know that spelling is probably wrong) during April, and yes, they did not work for Gilbert. That's saying something when Gilbert, on form, is on your squad.

Could he get more GC help? Yes.

But Dan right now, is pretty much the gutsiest GC rider. He actually has been making moves.

I remember a time at Garmin when if there was a crash, my first question was "Is Dan Martin down?" ... such was the frequency of his misfortune.

Glad that's over. He is a changed rider. He attacks, he tries, he doesn't complain and still, with plenty of excuses to not try...tries his hardest and gets time.

So yes, perhaps on Astana or Katusha he'd get a bit more support. But I do like Quickstep and something in that environment has brought him change. I suggest, that unless it's broken and the team is overall happy, then he should stay with them. Maybe ride the Vuelta afterwards. Go with the young fellas they are sending and try his pedigree there.

All the other GC rivals, could learn something from him.

Nibali, Contador and Martin...all seem to want to gain time and win. More than their rivals.

Froome is not in the same category...he's often leading already and maintains it. He has that fire to win...whether we like it or not is irrelevant, it works. Dan tries to push himself and get time from a different place in the race, but the self belief is similar.

It's simple; riding for Quickstep, he believes in himself. Really believes in himself. You can see it in how he rides. It's called Panache. Some people have a lot of it (Valverde and Sagan...Kittel this year)...others have small doses that drip from a tap...Dan Martin squeezes the pipes and forces as much out as he can get. Doesn't have as much as Valverde or Sagan, but he milks what he has.

Fans notice this. Fans cheer for this. That is what makes cycling great to watch and participate in. Thanks Dan Martin for believing...keep it up. You'll strike gold soon.

Gilbert was leader for Amstel Gold Race and then didn't race Fleche and Liege due to injury.

I think you are also over rating his attacking, he's only gained time on the flats when he hasn't been marked as much as the others. Has he even attacked on a climb yet?

 

[Leinster]

I got to watch it again last night and I may have been a bit harsh on Bauer and QS in general. Before the echelons opened up, you can clearly see Bauer and Brambilla maneuvering around Martin keeping him protected. 2 support men should have been plenty if he had the legs.

There was definitely some lack of communication after the splits, though. Bauer at least twice opened up a gap without Martin on his wheel. He kept going to about 3.5/4 km to go, but a bit of smarter riding might have seen him last a little longer.

 

[Akuryo]

Re: Re:

While changing teams would appear to look good for Martin, Quickstep are a good environment.

Uran, almost won the Giro on that squad.

Joining Garmin/Cannondale, saw his quality in races deteriorate. Sure, he's doing great this Tour, but Martin was on that squad.

Their roles and fortunes appeared to reverse dramatically when both riders switched teams and positions.

Martin, whilst he hasn't won in the Ardennes, has been super consistent and help at bay by Valverde, a once in a generation rider. Remove Valverde, and Dan's palmares would be really juicy right now.

He's on a good team. The squad works for him and Alaphilippe (I know that spelling is probably wrong) during April, and yes, they did not work for Gilbert. That's saying something when Gilbert, on form, is on your squad.

Could he get more GC help? Yes.

But Dan right now, is pretty much the gutsiest GC rider. He actually has been making moves.

I remember a time at Garmin when if there was a crash, my first question was "Is Dan Martin down?" ... such was the frequency of his misfortune.

Glad that's over. He is a changed rider. He attacks, he tries, he doesn't complain and still, with plenty of excuses to not try...tries his hardest and gets time.

So yes, perhaps on Astana or Katusha he'd get a bit more support. But I do like Quickstep and something in that environment has brought him change. I suggest, that unless it's broken and the team is overall happy, then he should stay with them. Maybe ride the Vuelta afterwards. Go with the young fellas they are sending and try his pedigree there.

All the other GC rivals, could learn something from him.

Nibali, Contador and Martin...all seem to want to gain time and win. More than their rivals.

Froome is not in the same category...he's often leading already and maintains it. He has that fire to win...whether we like it or not is irrelevant, it works. Dan tries to push himself and get time from a different place in the race, but the self belief is similar.

It's simple; riding for Quickstep, he believes in himself. Really believes in himself. You can see it in how he rides. It's called Panache. Some people have a lot of it (Valverde and Sagan...Kittel this year)...others have small doses that drip from a tap...Dan Martin squeezes the pipes and forces as much out as he can get. Doesn't have as much as Valverde or Sagan, but he milks what he has.

Fans notice this. Fans cheer for this. That is what makes cycling great to watch and participate in. Thanks Dan Martin for believing...keep it up. You'll strike gold soon.

Gilbert was leader for Amstel Gold Race and then didn't race Fleche and Liege due to injury.

I think you are also over rating his attacking, he's only gained time on the flats when he hasn't been marked as much as the others. Has he even attacked on a climb yet?

Yes.