Dan Martin discussion thread

[drebelo]

Re:

2.5 minutes lost in the Dauphine TTT today, with a similar length one due up in the Tour. Have UAE sent anyone in particular to Suisse that could turn that around? Kristoff? Swift? It really looks like an uphill battle even if Martin was in good form which, all indications are, he isn’t.

Well besides them the team still have Rui Costa which most likely will go to the tour and isn´t exactly the worse TTer and the young Ganna that maybe will not be part of the Tour team but could be a valueable ally for the TTT and perhaps the roubaix stage. But honestly and unfortunately I think that Dan Martin will not even be of any relevance whatsoever in terms of GC in the Tour . The entire UAE team have been a giant flop this season

 

[Leinster]

Even adding Costa or Ganna, it’s not exactly building up to a world class setup. You suspect Dumoulin or Froome could beat them solo.

The team really has been a flop this season.

 

[tobydawq]

Apparently, he got a massive confidence boost from yesterday's ride. Not just a regular-sized confidence boost but a massive one indeed.

I wonder what should have happened for him not getting one what with their being number 20 out of 22 and losing 4 seconds per kilometre.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Apparently, he got a massive confidence boost from yesterday's ride. Not just a regular-sized confidence boost but a massive one indeed.

I wonder what should have happened for him not getting one what with their being number 20 out of 22 and losing 4 seconds per kilometre.

Hey Dan, you got dropped on Mont Noir today and lost 15 minutes. What where your sensations today? Yeah well, the results don't matter at this very moment and I had great sensations out there so getting dropped by Castroviejo with 50 riders still remaining was definitely a huge boost for my morale.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

Apparently, he got a massive confidence boost from yesterday's ride. Not just a regular-sized confidence boost but a massive one indeed.

I wonder what should have happened for him not getting one what with their being number 20 out of 22 and losing 4 seconds per kilometre.

Hey Dan, you got dropped on Mont Noir today and lost 15 minutes. What where your sensations today? Yeah well, the results don't matter at this very moment and I had great sensations out there so getting dropped by Castroviejo with 50 riders still remaining was definitely a huge boost for my morale.

I’m also very happy that all my team got dropped 5km before I did, as it meant I rode the whole second half of the climb without any support, which is something I’m going to have to get used to in the Tour.

 

[drebelo]

Re: Re:

Apparently, he got a massive confidence boost from yesterday's ride. Not just a regular-sized confidence boost but a massive one indeed.

I wonder what should have happened for him not getting one what with their being number 20 out of 22 and losing 4 seconds per kilometre.

Hey Dan, you got dropped on Mont Noir today and lost 15 minutes. What where your sensations today? Yeah well, the results don't matter at this very moment and I had great sensations out there so getting dropped by Castroviejo with 50 riders still remaining was definitely a huge boost for my morale.

I’m also very happy that all my team got dropped 5km before I did, as it meant I rode the whole second half of the climb without any support, which is something I’m going to have to get used to in the Tour.

An in form Emirates could give him way better support that he had at quick stepp, but yeah with how the things are going for the team this year the guy will be alone pretty soon in the climbs

 

[yaco]

Martin showed good form today - he's used to having little support at the TDF - He suffers from the Porte curse of only wanting to ride the TDF - Love to see him make the Giro and the Vuelta his focus.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Martin showed good form today - he's used to having little support at the TDF - He suffers from the Porte curse of only wanting to ride the TDF - Love to see him make the Giro and the Vuelta his focus.

He tried Giro earlier in his career but his pollen allergies went completely berserk. He described that race as like breathing through a straw. He hasn’t been back since. More generally I think Ardennes- Tour - Lombardia provides a better season structure for him than targeting other GTs. Although he could conceivably win a Vuelta if he targeted it as main goal for a season and was moderately fortunate with parcours and field.

Good to see him showing form again. He looks likely to be good at the Tour.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Martin showed good form today - he's used to having little support at the TDF - He suffers from the Porte curse of only wanting to ride the TDF - Love to see him make the Giro and the Vuelta his focus.

He tried Giro earlier in his career but his pollen allergies went completely berserk. He described that race as like breathing through a straw. He hasn’t been back since. More generally I think Ardennes- Tour - Lombardia provides a better season structure for him than targeting other GTs. Although he could conceivably win a Vuelta if he targeted it as main goal for a season and was moderately fortunate with parcours and field.

Good to see him showing form again. He looks likely to be good at the Tour.

I don't think so...

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Dan Martin has ruined my fantasy team this year - him and Vuillermoz

I remember wavering between those two, and then Roglic and Latour..... dammit

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Martin showed good form today - he's used to having little support at the TDF - He suffers from the Porte curse of only wanting to ride the TDF - Love to see him make the Giro and the Vuelta his focus.

He tried Giro earlier in his career but his pollen allergies went completely berserk. He described that race as like breathing through a straw. He hasn’t been back since. More generally I think Ardennes- Tour - Lombardia provides a better season structure for him than targeting other GTs. Although he could conceivably win a Vuelta if he targeted it as main goal for a season and was moderately fortunate with parcours and field.

Good to see him showing form again. He looks likely to be good at the Tour.

I don't think so...

Pretty much anyone who can top 10 a Tour can conceivably win a Vuelta. All that varies is how fortunate they have to get with the field and route. A Vuelta parcours that’s heavy on the muritos, light on the TT and has bonus seconds in play should suit a Martin down to the ground and is well within the range of usual Vuelta types. Make it his season’s target and put him up against a moderate to weak field, as the condition of opponents at that race is highly variable in a way it isn’t at the other two GTs, and there’s no reason why he couldn’t win. Sometimes you have to be a Froome to win a Vuelta, sometimes you just have to be a Cobo, Horner or Aru.

While their optimal parcours would vary, I’d say the same about anyone in last year’s Tour top 10. The only ones I’d be a little unsure about would be Meintjes and Barguil and even in their cases I’d be reluctant to declare that they definitely couldn’t. The Vuelta is a funny race.

 

[Netserk]

Can you name any previous edition where Martin would have been a main contender if he had focused entirely on the Vuelta?

 

[tobydawq]

But how often in the last couple of years has Valverde shown that he is superior at everything compared to Martin?

And Valverde doesn't win that many Vueltas (he probably could win this year, though), so I don't think what you say has that much truth in it.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Can you name any previous edition where Martin would have been a main contender if he had focused entirely on the Vuelta?

Maybe the Aru Vuelta.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Can you name any previous edition where Martin would have been a main contender if he had focused entirely on the Vuelta?

Maybe the Aru Vuelta.

If he was fresh and surprisingly consistent, he could perhaps end up around Majka. I'd consider that his best case scenario.

And that is still far away from winning a Vuelta.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

Let's see how he does the rest of the race, but looks pretty good so far.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

But how often in the last couple of years has Valverde shown that he is superior at everything compared to Martin?

And Valverde doesn't win that many Vueltas (he probably could win this year, though), so I don't think what you say has that much truth in it.

I actually think that Valverde has underperformed in the Vuelta and at Lombardia and - counter intuitively I know - even the WCRR. He is usually heavily overraced by the late season. He has an incredibly high level without being on a peak so he is still good, but in my view a Valverde who races much less and really targets the late season has multiple Vueltas, Lombardias and WCRRs on his palmares instead of 1/0/0. So I see no problem in both accepting that Valverde is better than Martin and also thinking that a Martin who really targeted the late season would have better than 0/1/0 in the big late races.

My view is that the late season level across the field is simply much lower at the end of the racing year. A Zaugg will never win Liege. A Cobo will never win the Tour. Odd things become possible when a rider is simply in better form than his key rivals, something that happens in minor races throughout the year and sometimes big races at the end of the year. For that reason, I’m of the opinion that anyone who can top 10 the Tour, without it being some very weird fluke, could have everything fall right for them in the Vuelta and actually win it if they themselves have Tour form. Similarly most who can top 10 LBL could conceivably get lucky at Lombardia.

 

[vedrafjord]

Re: Re:

I’m of the opinion that anyone who can top 10 the Tour, without it being some very weird fluke, could have everything fall right for them in the Vuelta and actually win it if they themselves have Tour form.

How dare you deny the greatness of true champions like Chris Horner, Juan José Cobo, Aitor González, and Ángel Casero.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

Can you name any previous edition where Martin would have been a main contender if he had focused entirely on the Vuelta?

Maybe the Aru Vuelta.

If he was fresh and surprisingly consistent, he could perhaps end up around Majka. I'd consider that his best case scenario.

And that is still far away from winning a Vuelta.

He was sitting in 3rd, 23 seconds behind Dumoulin, 24 ahead of Aru, when he crashed out on stage 8. And he had a stronger group of climbers in support than Dumoulin had. With Froome and Nibali DNFing and Quintana being off the pace, that race ended up being wide open.

 

[Netserk]

And he would have been blown away in Andorra. Not to mention the ITT.

 

[Leinster]

He wouldn’t have lost time to Dumoulin in Andorra. He might have lost time to Aru in the TT, but he had plenty of other stages to gain some of that back. Similarly for every stage where he would have lost time to Purito and Majka, there’s another he could’ve snatched some back. Obviously this is all guessing, but it was a Vuelta where Aru won, so there are no absolutes when determining possible past outcomes.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Martin showed good form today - he's used to having little support at the TDF - He suffers from the Porte curse of only wanting to ride the TDF - Love to see him make the Giro and the Vuelta his focus.

He tried Giro earlier in his career but his pollen allergies went completely berserk. He described that race as like breathing through a straw. He hasn’t been back since. More generally I think Ardennes- Tour - Lombardia provides a better season structure for him than targeting other GTs. Although he could conceivably win a Vuelta if he targeted it as main goal for a season and was moderately fortunate with parcours and field.

Good to see him showing form again. He looks likely to be good at the Tour.

I don't think so...

Pretty much anyone who can top 10 a Tour can conceivably win a Vuelta. All that varies is how fortunate they have to get with the field and route. A Vuelta parcours that’s heavy on the muritos, light on the TT and has bonus seconds in play should suit a Martin down to the ground and is well within the range of usual Vuelta types. Make it his season’s target and put him up against a moderate to weak field, as the condition of opponents at that race is highly variable in a way it isn’t at the other two GTs, and there’s no reason why he couldn’t win. Sometimes you have to be a Froome to win a Vuelta, sometimes you just have to be a Cobo, Horner or Aru.

While their optimal parcours would vary, I’d say the same about anyone in last year’s Tour top 10. The only ones I’d be a little unsure about would be Meintjes and Barguil and even in their cases I’d be reluctant to declare that they definitely couldn’t. The Vuelta is a funny race.

What a nonsense!

 

[drebelo]

Well well well maybe the guy can be a contender for the Tour.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Well well well maybe the guy can be a contender for the Tour.

I hope so, he’s not been far off in the past. That TTT is going to really hurt him though.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Well well well maybe the guy can be a contender for the Tour.

Of course he cant with that TTT and ITT. He can win a stage and end top-5.