Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

[sniper]

You're not smelling that coffee, are you.

The new found facts regarding Sky's PED experimentation and their lying about it are solid reasons to re-examine the Vuelta-2010 episode in general and Txema's death in particular. There's not much more to say about it.
It's awkward, if not worrying, that you're not interested in getting to the bottom of what happened there.
But an investigation probably won't happen anyway, so you can rest assured.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

You're not smelling that coffee, are you.

The new found facts regarding Sky's PED experimentation and their lying about it are solid reasons to re-examine the Vuelta-2010 episode in general and Txema's death in particular. There's not much more to say about it.
It's awkward, if not worrying, that you're not interested in getting to the bottom of what happened there.
But an investigation probably won't happen anyway, so you can rest assured.

Nope I'm not, because you haven't brewed any. The basis for the argument is that because no-one (hospital, doctors, family, etc.) contradicted the reason given for death (bacterial infection) then there must be a Sky cover up. There is no sound basis for that at all - none.

The fact that we have found out that Wiggo had a Kenacort injection under TUE does not add any evidence to the claim that Txema Gonzalez was experimenting on himself with PEDs. None at all.

 

[sniper]

Stop putting words and thoughts in people's mouths to suit your agenda.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

Stop putting words and thoughts in people's mouths to suit your agenda.

I'm not - I'm quoting other people's posts to have a reasoned debate about how / whether the death has any link to Wiggo's TUE and Sky's so called PED experimentation, and whether there was in fact a huge cover up, which people are implying without a shred of clear evidence. Its all supposition and speculation.

 

[sniper]

you're not quoting anybody.
just bending other people's words and thoughts.
nobody has said or even implied anything you say they did.
agenda much?

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

you're not quoting anybody.
just bending other people's words and thoughts.
nobody has said or even implied anything you say they did.
agenda much?

We don't know whether Gonzalez was examined after his death. It was announced as caused by a Virus. Well if that is not true and the hospital knew he died of other causes then the family would know and unless Sky gave a huge sum of money, we would know.

Quote of other poster - tick
Accusation of bung - tick

What's your agenda?

 

[sniper]

that's underscoring my previous post.
cheers for that.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

You're not smelling that coffee, are you.

The new found facts regarding Sky's PED experimentation and their lying about it are solid reasons to re-examine the Vuelta-2010 episode in general and Txema's death in particular. There's not much more to say about it.
It's awkward, if not worrying, that you're not interested in getting to the bottom of what happened there.
But an investigation probably won't happen anyway, so you can rest assured.

There isn't if Txema had been experimenting with PED's the hospital staff would of recognised the fresh injection sites and that would likely of bought the guardia civil and more into it as that would make it a suspicious death.

This is why I don't take you people seriously, the man died of bacterial infection he likely picked up in a hotel.

 

[sniper]

should of would of could of.

it's worrisome that you prefer to bury rather than re-examine a case where somebody possibly died of PEDs.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

that's underscoring my previous post.
cheers for that.

Not really - its highlighting that I am quoting and commenting on another posters words. So I'm playing the post not the poster. Something that most people here always ask for.

If people have clear evidence of a cover up of (or even existence of) Txema's self testing of PEDs they should post it, otherwise they should acknowledge that it is speculation. I don't have a problem with that, but presenting speculation as truth or overwhelming evidence is nonsense (or opinion). Either way they should allow counter arguments without presenting them as deflections, agendas, blocking, etc.

 

[MmeDesgrange]

Re: Re:

Somebody who had previously worked with Txema Gonzalez at Saunier Duval is David Millar.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/txema-gonzalez-a-tribute-from-david-millar/
From that tribute, it's clear David saw Txema as an outstanding, self-respecting soigneur.

This is from Millar's Racing through the Dark:

His [Desbiens'] plight demonstrated the risks riders ran if they 'experimented' on their own. It was usually the soigneurs who dealt with rider medication. Every self-respecting soigneur would have his own comprehensive medical bag and, if the doctor was not at the race, which was often the case, then the soigneurs would assume that role - often with relish.

Smell the coffee.

Which says what - that a soigneur would be prepared to experiment on him/herself? Having a comprehensive medical bag is very different from being willing to stick the needle in your own arm.

To be fair, as Willy Voet makes plain in Breaking the Chain, that's exactly what a lot of them did

 

[MmeDesgrange]

Gonzalez died of septicaemia after contracting a bacterial infection. Steve Peters was at pains to point out that it was not the same as the virus afflicting Swift, Flecha and Augustyn though he was hospitalised for symptoms that were apparently the same as the 3 riders who abandoned. Sky quit the Vuelta the next day.

Food poisoning or similar was reported for the riders, Peters was at great pains to draw a distinction between that virus that tore through the team and Conzalez's bacterial infection that led to septic shock.

Is the whole incident fishy? It certainly has a whiff of the PDM team about it

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Somebody who had previously worked with Txema Gonzalez at Saunier Duval is David Millar.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/txema-gonzalez-a-tribute-from-david-millar/
From that tribute, it's clear David saw Txema as an outstanding, self-respecting soigneur.

This is from Millar's Racing through the Dark:

His [Desbiens'] plight demonstrated the risks riders ran if they 'experimented' on their own. It was usually the soigneurs who dealt with rider medication. Every self-respecting soigneur would have his own comprehensive medical bag and, if the doctor was not at the race, which was often the case, then the soigneurs would assume that role - often with relish.

Smell the coffee.

Which says what - that a soigneur would be prepared to experiment on him/herself? Having a comprehensive medical bag is very different from being willing to stick the needle in your own arm.

To be fair, as Willy Voet makes plain in Breaking the Chain, that's exactly what a lot of them did

Yes - that's what some of them did 16 years ago, 12 years before Txema. Doesn't mean he did.

 

[heart_attack_man]

Re: Re:

Yes - that's what some of them did 16 years ago, 12 years before Txema. Doesn't mean he did.

Not to sound inflammatory, but it also doesn't mean he didn't...

Not saying that I believe this, but I always found it more than odd that the soigneur was the one that died - I thought it was vaguely common knowledge that the soigneurs often led the way in experimental PED usage...

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

Yes - that's what some of them did 16 years ago, 12 years before Txema. Doesn't mean he did.

John Hendershot. Lots of human experimenters out there that made/make good money at it.

The infamous Dr. Brown is still operating in Track and Field in the U.S.

I'm not sure why you are hanging on so hard. It's a dirty sport.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Gonzalez died of septicaemia after contracting a bacterial infection. Steve Peters was at pains to point out that it was not the same as the virus afflicting Swift, Flecha and Augustyn though he was hospitalised for symptoms that were apparently the same as the 3 riders who abandoned. Sky quit the Vuelta the next day.

Food poisoning or similar was reported for the riders, Peters was at great pains to draw a distinction between that virus that tore through the team and Conzalez's bacterial infection that led to septic shock.

Is the whole incident fishy? It certainly has a whiff of the PDM team about it

cheers, i knew this but had forgotten about it.
most interesting.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Yes - that's what some of them did 16 years ago, 12 years before Txema. Doesn't mean he did.

John Hendershot. Lots of human experimenters out there that made/make good money at it.

The infamous Dr. Brown is still operating in Track and Field in the U.S.

I'm not sure why you are hanging on so hard. It's a dirty sport.

It always was and still is a dirty sport!

 

[MmeDesgrange]

Re: Re:

Gonzalez died of septicaemia after contracting a bacterial infection. Steve Peters was at pains to point out that it was not the same as the virus afflicting Swift, Flecha and Augustyn though he was hospitalised for symptoms that were apparently the same as the 3 riders who abandoned. Sky quit the Vuelta the next day.

Food poisoning or similar was reported for the riders, Peters was at great pains to draw a distinction between that virus that tore through the team and Conzalez's bacterial infection that led to septic shock.

Is the whole incident fishy? It certainly has a whiff of the PDM team about it

cheers, i knew this but had forgotten about it.
most interesting.

So reminiscent of doping from days past - think my favourite was when a team pulled out with food poisoning (50s?) and blamed the bad fish. Hotel chef was most indignant - particularly as he hadn't served fish that night

Most of Sky went sick on that race - perhaps that was the fish, too?

 

[MmeDesgrange]

Of course I mean "food poisoning" - from my earliest days as a fan I learned that stomach troubles were never quite what they seemed...

 

[Benotti69]

Dave Brailsford have turned into David Brent!

In every interview he gives reems and reems of management speak and wont answer the question.

Richard Moore interviewed Brailsford and let him ramble off away from an answer.

 

[Benotti69]

oh dear

'I've never ever ever spoken to any rider, any nationality, either at British cycling, or team sky about doping.' Brailsford.

That is a big fat lie.

 

[Benotti69]

Brailsford in 2010..

"we have got nothing to hide..."

https://twitter.com/Digger_forum/status/787722332643221504

More lies.

 

[TeflonDub]

Here's Dave's formula for wriggling out of difficult questions without committing to anything. Pick any 4-digit number, but it's almost creepy how well any number ending in '9' works!

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Here's Dave's formula for wriggling out of difficult questions without committing to anything. Pick any 4-digit number, but it's almost creepy how well any number ending in '9' works!

Brilliant. :lol:

 

[TourOfSardinia]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-refuses-to-clarify-contents-of-team-skys-medical-package

"I don't think at this moment in time it helps to say by the way it was 'x'"

If only the packet had been transparent we might have been able to see what was inside.



it's all falling to bits gloriously
(Public Image 1978)