Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

[zalacain]

Re:

To those who believe Brailsford is a 'dead man walking', that Brailsford is 'going down' ... may I ask just who you think is going to pull the trigger and put him out of our misery?

Is it going to be the Murdochs? The same Murdochs who sent Rebekah Brooks off on a very expensive gap year and then took her back into the fold on an even more generous new salary?

Is it going to be Disney, who did **** all about Harvey Weinstein when they owned Miramax?

Maybe it'll be Comcast, if their takeover of Sky goes ahead? Comcast, the owners of NBC, who nixed Ronan Farrow's Weinstein exposé?

Just who do you expect to actually turn off the life support machine here, people? Are you expecting Travis Tygart to come charging in on his white horse just like Richard Gere at the end of Pretty Woman?

Bob Iger if Disney take over

 

[King Boonen]

Mod hat on:


We have removed a very large number of posts from this thread that were either against the rules or part of the conversation. We are trying very hard to allow conversation to flow and not limit it and this includes allowing some personality in people's posting style. You are free to write what you want and respond to what you want within the forum rules. However, the large number of arguments and reports recently mean we will be keeping a very close eye on these discussions. Please bare this in mind when you post.

Cheers,

KB.

 

[macbindle]

Only just seen this article, it's 5 days old but some may enjoy...


"What crisis-ridden Team Sky must do to restore their shredded credibility"

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/11/team-sky-chris-froome-dave-brailsford-report-crisis?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

tldr=Brailsford must go

 

[thehog]

Re:

JTL was badly supported by team sky...how come he never squealed like a.......?

Mark L

You do realised JTL has provided significant testimony to UKAD and CMS from his take at Sky, yes? He also outlined the use of Tramandol (which he refused) at the Worlds in 2012 to the BBC

Do research anything before you type it?

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

JTL was badly supported by team sky...how come he never squealed like a.......?

Mark L

You do realised JTL has provided significant testimony to UKAD and CMS from his take at Sky, yes? He also outlined the use of Tramandol (which he refused) at the Worlds in 2012 to the BBC

Do research anything before you type it?

According to you, he was doped by Sky, resulting in ABP violation (EPO) and yet he refused (legal) Tramadol.

Seems a confused young man.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

JTL was badly supported by team sky...how come he never squealed like a.......?

Mark L

You do realised JTL has provided significant testimony to UKAD and CMS from his take at Sky, yes? He also outlined the use of Tramandol (which he refused) at the Worlds in 2012 to the BBC

Do research anything before you type it?

According to you, he was doped by Sky, resulting in ABP violation (EPO) and yet he refused (legal) Tramadol.

Seems a confused young man.

No. That’s not what I said. His ABP was spread across his time at Endura, British Cycling and Sky. Aportioning the blame solely at Endura would not be reasonable.

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

Oh ok.

Looks like you've changed your mind since you made all these posts...

Was the lack of internal testing done by Sky on JTL before signing him not one of the things they were getting kicked for?

Alcohol testing?

I prefer to stick to the facts. He was doped to the eyeballs under BC/Brailsford and training with Sky for most of that year.

This is most concerning. I'm sure David Walsh will get to the bottom of it

What kind of team would hire a rider without looking at his blood profile today?

No chance that Sky wasn't aware.

I think more to the point; how did he dope for the WCs in Italy without Brailford knowing. Unless Brailsford doped him.

I don't imagine JTL transported his EPO to Italy nor took it prior to leaving.

http://blogs.bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/anti-doping-roundup

Doesn't sound like Garmin's testing amounted to much. They were about to sign off one test?

Thinking it about it some more.... Vaughters is hardly the bastion of truth to be honest. I'm leaning towards believing Smith on this one. Only because Vaughters has a history or only telling half the story.

I'm still on the side that Sky doped JTL or at the very least knew he was doping and didn't care. But Brailsford is a piece of work. Nothing surprises me with him.

http://road.cc/content/news/119640-...ys-delay-bio-passport-hearing-isn’t-his-fault

It was after that Tour of Britain win that Tiernan-Locke, then riding for Endura Racing, first began undergoing regular blood testing. Endura insists that in the period in question he was training under Sky’s supervision before joining them.

Interesting quote here from Endura that JTL was under Sky's "supervision" during the alleged doping.

Find it hard how JTL would have doped alone whilst training with Sky. Let's hope the real story comes out.

 

[thehog]

I forgot the bikeradar fan club spend all their time reviewing old posts TailWindHome is a blast from the last, don’t see those guys around since Sky were proven to be dopers and liars

My position remains the same. It is indeed possible that he doped at all three entities and not Endura alone. It really is that simple not matter how much time you want to spend digging through old posts

 

[pastronef]

I forgot the bikeradar fan club spend all their time reviewing old posts TailWindHome is a blast from the last, don’t see those guys around since Sky were proven to be dopers and liars

My position remains the same. It is indeed possible that he doped at all three entities and not Endura alone. It really is that simple not matter how much time you want to spend digging through old posts

some spend their time on old posts, some spend their time on old faxes. it´s a hobby at the end of the day

 

[macbindle]

I forgot the bikeradar fan club spend all their time reviewing old posts TailWindHome is a blast from the last, don’t see those guys around since Sky were proven to be dopers and liars

My position remains the same. It is indeed possible that he doped at all three entities and not Endura alone. It really is that simple not matter how much time you want to spend digging through old posts

Just did a search with you as author and the terms "JTL Sky Doping". Took me about 90 seconds to s
parse and quote. There may well be more.

Don't read bikeradar forums ever, occasionally read the journo output. Is that permissible?

So as I said, according to you, Sky doped him but he refused Tramadol. Seems unlikely, No?

It's no biggie. I'm broadly in agreement with most of what you post. Just don't like it when you are a bit disingenuous, that's all. Puts me off reading these threads.

After all, it is hardly necessary to exaggerate in these circumstances, is it?

 

[thehog]

Re:

I forgot the bikeradar fan club spend all their time reviewing old posts TailWindHome is a blast from the last, don’t see those guys around since Sky were proven to be dopers and liars

My position remains the same. It is indeed possible that he doped at all three entities and not Endura alone. It really is that simple not matter how much time you want to spend digging through old posts

Just did a search with you as author and the terms "JTL Sky Doping". Took me about 90 seconds to s
parse and quote. There may well be more.

Don't read bikeradar forums ever, occasionally read the journo output. Is that permissible?

So as I said, according to you, Sky doped him but he refused Tramadol. Seems unlikely, No?

It's no biggie. I'm broadly in agreement with most of what you post. Just don't like it when you are a bit disingenuous, that's all. Puts me off reading these threads.

After all, it is hardly necessary to exaggerate in these circumstances, is it?

I’m sure it took you longer than 90 seconds but I do appreciate the effort you went to. Don’t be put off please.

JTL said to BBC that he was offered Tramadol at the worlds and refused it. Said he gave his testimony to UKAD. Not sure there’s anything disingenuous with that statement.

 

[macbindle]

Accepted. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your intent.

 

[thehog]

The life and times of JTL:

Tiernan-Locke also revealed that the Great Britain team, at the 2012 World Championships, offered riders Tramadol "freely around," but he did not take it. "I wasn't in any pain so I didn't need to take it, and that was offered freely around. It just didn't sit well with me at the time. I thought, 'I'm not in any pain', why would I want a painkiller?'"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/former-sky-rider-tiernan-locke-says-great-britain-offered-tramadol-freely/

 

[mrhender]

So Froome is clean, because he got caught. Yep

 

[mrhender]

JTL Was a mule. Only difference between him and Froome is the latter accidently almost won the TDF at a moment the winner only won because of politics.
It's absurd.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Interesting to compare Brailsfraud clinging on at Team Sky in the face of widespread calls for him to be sacked or resign with other scandals currently rumbling on:

- Cambridge Analytica's CEO has been suspended after (with delightful irony) being caught on a hidden camera offering a menu of dirty tricks to an undercover journalist

- The Weinstein Company has filed for bankruptcy and has announced that the many individuals who were paid to sign NDAs will be released from their contractual obligations to remain silent

In the context of Cambridge Analytica's CEO being suspended, it is remarkable that Team Sky's board have just given Brailsfraud an employment contract rather than suspending or sacking him

In the context of the Weinstein Company releasing counter-parties from NDAs, this explains why Team Sky's board are being so spineless in not suspending or sacking him - they know that if Brailsfraud goes the team will most likely fold, and if that happens those under NDAs will be able to speak out. At that point the whole house of cards comes crashing down

Echoes of British Cycling's board knowing about Brailsfraud/Sutton's culture of fear management style in 2012, suppressing Peter King's report and so being complicit in those bad behaviours continuing for another Olympic cycle

 

[macbindle]

Jean-René Bernaudeau?

 L'Équipe 17 August 1982 : « Je considère les contrôles dans les critériums comme une atteinte à la liberté du travail. »

"I consider doping controls at the criteriums as an attack on working freedom"

Some say that duplicity is a French national pastime.

I'd just say that cycling hasn't changed that much in 36 years. Brailsford fits in just nicely.

 

[Robert5091]

So where is Tour Racing Limited's Knight of the Realm? Awfully quiet ...

 

[poupou]

If only people who had not said something wrong had the right to talk, no one would talk! And at anytime discuss the messagen not the messager!

Why did the riders protested at that time? Because the criterium were not races, just a show! Why should riders tested when there were no OOCC in those days? At the end of TDF, riders were tired, sometimes ill and they wanted, mostly, to be able to take the medicine they needed( and maybe more) .

 

[pastronef]

Re:

If only people who had not said something wrong had the right to talk, no one would talk! And at anytime discuss the messagen not the messager!

Why did the riders protested at that time? Because the criterium were not races, just a show! Why should riders tested when there were no OOCC in those days? At the end of TDF, riders were tired, sometimes ill and they wanted, mostly, to be able to take the medicine they needed( and maybe more) .

or the "medicines" they took during the TDF were still in their body and could be found if controlled

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

Jean-René Bernaudeau?

 L'Équipe 17 August 1982 : « Je considère les contrôles dans les critériums comme une atteinte à la liberté du travail. »

"I consider doping controls at the criteriums as an attack on working freedom"

Some say that duplicity is a French national pastime.

I'd just say that cycling hasn't changed that much in 36 years. Brailsford fits in just nicely.

First and foremost. let's be clear: JRB doped. But...Callac was a mess. Hinault, Le Bigaut, Vallet, Clerc, and Bernaudeau were unlucky. Critériums before then - and for a long time after - were outside of the testing regime. And people doped like crazy for them (and to get to and from them). Something similar happened a few years later on the track at Bercy in 1986: the Winter track circuit was like the critériums, entertainment more than racing, and so had been free from doping control, but in 1986 les flics took an interest.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

If only people who had not said something wrong had the right to talk, no one would talk! And at anytime discuss the messagen not the messager!

Why did the riders protested at that time? Because the criterium were not races, just a show! Why should riders tested when there were no OOCC in those days? At the end of TDF, riders were tired, sometimes ill and they wanted, mostly, to be able to take the medicine they needed( and maybe more) .

or the "medicines" they took during the TDF were still in their body and could be found if controlled

Not likely. There was a lot of doping for crits. (You're read Kimmage? The three occasions he used dope were all crits.)

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

If only people who had not said something wrong had the right to talk, no one would talk! And at anytime discuss the messagen not the messager!

Why did the riders protested at that time? Because the criterium were not races, just a show! Why should riders tested when there were no OOCC in those days? At the end of TDF, riders were tired, sometimes ill and they wanted, mostly, to be able to take the medicine they needed( and maybe more) .

A rather rose-tinted view: oh, the poor riders were tired, they just wanted to take some medicine to recover. They doped for the critérium circuit because there was a lot of money to be made on it and it was outside the doping control regime.

 

[macbindle]

Re:

If only people who had not said something wrong had the right to talk, no one would talk! And at anytime discuss the messagen not the messager!

Why did the riders protested at that time? Because the criterium were not races, just a show! Why should riders tested when there were no OOCC in those days? At the end of TDF, riders were tired, sometimes ill and they wanted, mostly, to be able to take the medicine they needed( and maybe more) .

We ARE talking about the message.

So I get it. It's ok for French riders to dope...and then criticise others for doing the same (asthma puffer) at a later date.

There is a time limit on hypocrisy...but only if you are French. If you work or ride for Team Sky your hypocrisy lasts forever.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

If only people who had not said something wrong had the right to talk, no one would talk! And at anytime discuss the messagen not the messager!

Why did the riders protested at that time? Because the criterium were not races, just a show! Why should riders tested when there were no OOCC in those days? At the end of TDF, riders were tired, sometimes ill and they wanted, mostly, to be able to take the medicine they needed( and maybe more) .

We ARE talking about the message.

So I get it. It's ok for French riders to dope...and then criticise others for doing the same (asthma puffer) at a later date.

There is a time limit on hypocrisy...but only if you are French. If you work or ride for Team Sky your hypocrisy lasts forever.

With all due respect, you are missing the fact that times changed. Doping in JRB's day was the norm. There was little real outcry over it. You got busted, you got a suspended suspension. You got busted again, if you played it right you got a winter ban. The media didn't care about it: doping stories were buried down the column on page 94 of l'Équipe. The fans didn't really care: at best were ambivalent, at worst we believed the lies about it being necessary. As for the UCI, it did little to counter the problem, in fact encouraged it. Today, times have changed: the attitude of the fans and the media is clearly different. The culture within the peloton has changed. It's not clean but doping is not what it was. Are people who doped back when it was the norm really supposed to just STFU now? Does condemning doping now having participated in doping then automatically make you a hypocrite? Do you really believe only Simon Pures should speak against doping? Really?

Here's the real question for you: is JRB today encouraging doping? Do you believe that he still operates a culture of the pill and the potion across the teams he runs? If he does and he's damning Sky, then yes, that makes him a hypocrite. Is that what you are saying is going on here?