- Sep 29, 2012
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He's giving the people what they want - an opportunity to be proud. It's not genius, it's entry level marketing 101.
Re:
I should have worked in some sarcasm in my post about calling him a genius as the Brailsford is not intelligent enough to have strategically planned all this, he isn't even clever enough to keep his story straight. He has however ridden his luck well and exploited his opportunities:
1. Arrived when GB ploughed money into Olympic sports that very few nations give a monkey's about.
2. Used success from point 1 to get sponsored by one of the world's biggest media empires, that's PR sewn up then.
3. Gets looked after by the remainder of the (British) media who are desperate for a good news sports story.
From there on in, it's one big money spinning ride for him.
Incidentally, I think Froome got the better of him in 2011 though, his transformation put Brailsford between a 'Rock and a hard place'.
Lyon said:
I should have worked in some sarcasm in my post about calling him a genius as the Brailsford is not intelligent enough to have strategically planned all this, he isn't even clever enough to keep his story straight. He has however ridden his luck well and exploited his opportunities:
1. Arrived when GB ploughed money into Olympic sports that very few nations give a monkey's about.
2. Used success from point 1 to get sponsored by one of the world's biggest media empires, that's PR sewn up then.
3. Gets looked after by the remainder of the (British) media who are desperate for a good news sports story.
From there on in, it's one big money spinning ride for him.
Incidentally, I think Froome got the better of him in 2011 though, his transformation put Brailsford between a 'Rock and a hard place'.
Re:
so if those people want to enjoy and have no interest in questioning and are harming noone, why is everybody trying to shatter their dream and what they enjoy day after day after day?
if they dont want to know sky dopes and tells lies (as the others) why the flip are people set their goal ant tasks to PROVE them they are wrong?
let them believe, sky will fold one day, and they will believe in someone else and so on.
Dear Wiggo said:
so if those people want to enjoy and have no interest in questioning and are harming noone, why is everybody trying to shatter their dream and what they enjoy day after day after day?
if they dont want to know sky dopes and tells lies (as the others) why the flip are people set their goal ant tasks to PROVE them they are wrong?
let them believe, sky will fold one day, and they will believe in someone else and so on.
Re: Re:
so let´s forbid ALL fans of Alberto, Nibali, Valverde, Ryder to root for their favourite riders because they are cheater and they harm somebody?
because that´s what I see here. people are trying to tell Sky fans they are WRONG.
even if they are WRONG, *** let them root for the rider they want
oh yes, many would say, but the other riders fans dont deny their fav riders are dopers, they understand.
so? it´s the same doping.
oh la la, so it´s not a DOPING problem, because I see here that everybody is ok with other riders fans
it´s that people can´t bear that Sky fans blindly root for them
Sky fans, rooting for their riders DO NOT HARM anyone.
as Alberto, NIbali, Valverde, Ryder fans do not harm anyone while rooting for them
Benotti69 said:
so let´s forbid ALL fans of Alberto, Nibali, Valverde, Ryder to root for their favourite riders because they are cheater and they harm somebody?
because that´s what I see here. people are trying to tell Sky fans they are WRONG.
even if they are WRONG, *** let them root for the rider they want
oh yes, many would say, but the other riders fans dont deny their fav riders are dopers, they understand.
so? it´s the same doping.
oh la la, so it´s not a DOPING problem, because I see here that everybody is ok with other riders fans
it´s that people can´t bear that Sky fans blindly root for them
Sky fans, rooting for their riders DO NOT HARM anyone.
as Alberto, NIbali, Valverde, Ryder fans do not harm anyone while rooting for them
- Mar 13, 2009
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Re: Re:
I dont think anyone has an aim to cause harm. I think folks just resent the fantasies, and offer to rebut them with the truth. folks get indignant when people talk about marginal gains and SKY. I was empathetic to Wiggins and his life story, but for heavens sake, if people want to throw it in their face, and deny the history and doping in the sport, and say they are riding without dope. I would be happy for Froome and Sky, as long as they do not say they are clean and it is their marginal gains BS
pastronef said:
I dont think anyone has an aim to cause harm. I think folks just resent the fantasies, and offer to rebut them with the truth. folks get indignant when people talk about marginal gains and SKY. I was empathetic to Wiggins and his life story, but for heavens sake, if people want to throw it in their face, and deny the history and doping in the sport, and say they are riding without dope. I would be happy for Froome and Sky, as long as they do not say they are clean and it is their marginal gains BS
Re: Re:
Folks are just jealous, bitter haters because they couldn't get in to Gordonstoun. You know it's true.
blackcat said:
Folks are just jealous, bitter haters because they couldn't get in to Gordonstoun. You know it's true.
Re: Re:
I know doping harms clean riders.
so I repeat, let´s use the same level of criticism to Sky fans and Contador, Astana, Hesjedal, Valverde fans.
the fact the Sky fans do not want to see the doping, while the other fans are aware and admit it, DOES NOT change the harm cheaters are doing to clean riders.
it´s the same doping. just the way it is perceived, or not, is different
yet Sky fans are more criticised for their point of view, than the others.
while all the riders I wrote dope and harm clean riders
is it a doping problem or a fan problem. why are we giving a free pass¤ to Contador/Valverde fans, while they harm the clean riders just as Froome?
¤I asked a few times why Sky thread had 87654323 pages: people answered "because sky bots say they are clean, while alberto/valverde fans admit they dope, so we say ok, and go on, argument finished"
again, the doping is the same, the harm is the same
Benotti69 said:
I know doping harms clean riders.
so I repeat, let´s use the same level of criticism to Sky fans and Contador, Astana, Hesjedal, Valverde fans.
the fact the Sky fans do not want to see the doping, while the other fans are aware and admit it, DOES NOT change the harm cheaters are doing to clean riders.
it´s the same doping. just the way it is perceived, or not, is different
yet Sky fans are more criticised for their point of view, than the others.
while all the riders I wrote dope and harm clean riders
is it a doping problem or a fan problem. why are we giving a free pass¤ to Contador/Valverde fans, while they harm the clean riders just as Froome?
¤I asked a few times why Sky thread had 87654323 pages: people answered "because sky bots say they are clean, while alberto/valverde fans admit they dope, so we say ok, and go on, argument finished"
again, the doping is the same, the harm is the same
Nah, it's not the same doping. Nibali's team has been getting chased around by the UCI and threatened with losing it's license. Contador isn't the same any more (in GTs, but especially at the Tour) since his ban. The UCI went after Katusha's license, and managed to pop a guy during the Tour. Piti could go whole hog in Spain, but he used to drop off the 3rd week of the Tour as if he was keeping things a bit more natural at the big show (although this year is different).
Only Sky seem to have carte blanche from the ASO and UCI to make all sorts of suspicious performances and unexpected transformations, yet never a whiff of suspicion from the UCI. McQuaid and Cookson have both publicly supported them against doping questions. It helps that there are entangled business interests.
It's not the same doping. It's not the same fraud. People are doubly pissed that the UCI appears not to have cleaned up its act after the USADA-Lance revelations.
Then there's the small matter that the guys mentioned in the first paragraph actually showed some promise, whereas Sky keeps transforming guys who showed little on the road into world-beaters. The level of transformation and cheating is off the charts, in many fans' minds. It's too much.
- Mar 13, 2009
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Re: Re:
pastronef, how many years have you been on cycling forums, not cyclingnews forum. I have been across p'raps a dozen fora, and know of Race Radio's handle on about 4 other fora.
all those riders and teams you speak of have been thru this same criticism.
pastronef said:
pastronef, how many years have you been on cycling forums, not cyclingnews forum. I have been across p'raps a dozen fora, and know of Race Radio's handle on about 4 other fora.
all those riders and teams you speak of have been thru this same criticism.
- Feb 14, 2014
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Re: Re:
The difference between Sky fans and fans of Contador, Valverde et al. is that Sky fans seem religiously convinced that their riders are clean and won't listen to any argument that says otherwise. If you tell a Bertie fan that he's probably still doping you'll get a "Yeah, but who isn't?" in return. There's a staggering difference in delusion between the two.
I root for Quintana because I like his riding style. Doesn't mean I'm not totally convinced that he's on something.pastronef said:
The difference between Sky fans and fans of Contador, Valverde et al. is that Sky fans seem religiously convinced that their riders are clean and won't listen to any argument that says otherwise. If you tell a Bertie fan that he's probably still doping you'll get a "Yeah, but who isn't?" in return. There's a staggering difference in delusion between the two.
Re:
And worse to come: poor Vroom will be relegated to VueltaWarrior as Brailsfraud has to pay back with The New Young Clean French Tour Champ
Beech Mtn said:
And worse to come: poor Vroom will be relegated to VueltaWarrior as Brailsfraud has to pay back with The New Young Clean French Tour Champ
Re:
+1
But since when did the Clinic ever care about tactics or skill?
FWIW, I think this years victory was incredibly close, if Porte hadn't recovered enough to help Froome on the Alpe, he'd have lost.......what would the clinic get upset about then
ebandit said:
+1
But since when did the Clinic ever care about tactics or skill?
FWIW, I think this years victory was incredibly close, if Porte hadn't recovered enough to help Froome on the Alpe, he'd have lost.......what would the clinic get upset about then
- Sep 29, 2012
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Re: Re:
Does anyone wish to calculate the draft wattage savings of someone as big as Froome behind someone as small as Porte, doing 20km/hr up an 8% gradient?
At a guess, it would be rounding errors on the measured power.
coinneach said:ebandit said:
+1
But since when did the Clinic ever care about tactics or skill?
FWIW, I think this years victory was incredibly close, if Porte hadn't recovered enough to help Froome on the Alpe, he'd have lost.......what would the clinic get upset about then
Does anyone wish to calculate the draft wattage savings of someone as big as Froome behind someone as small as Porte, doing 20km/hr up an 8% gradient?
At a guess, it would be rounding errors on the measured power.
- Jul 15, 2013
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Re: Re:
You do realise that only 15 riders finished within 1 hour of Froome. 4 of them GT winners. Last time only 15 riders could finish under an hour down on the winner, 1997.
But since when skyfans ever look past what Sky tell them.
coinneach said:ebandit said:
+1
But since when did the Clinic ever care about tactics or skill?
FWIW, I think this years victory was incredibly close, if Porte hadn't recovered enough to help Froome on the Alpe, he'd have lost.......what would the clinic get upset about then
You do realise that only 15 riders finished within 1 hour of Froome. 4 of them GT winners. Last time only 15 riders could finish under an hour down on the winner, 1997.
But since when skyfans ever look past what Sky tell them.
Re: Re:
That indicates not more but less doping, in the epo era racing was much closer compared to the 60's, 70's, 80's. We now have gaps similar to the 60's-80's era, seems positive to me.Benotti69 said:coinneach said:ebandit said:
+1
But since when did the Clinic ever care about tactics or skill?
FWIW, I think this years victory was incredibly close, if Porte hadn't recovered enough to help Froome on the Alpe, he'd have lost.......what would the clinic get upset about then
You do realise that only 15 riders finished within 1 hour of Froome. 4 of them GT winners. Last time only 15 riders could finish under an hour down on the winner, 1997.
But since when skyfans ever look past what Sky tell them.
Re: Re:
But if the clinic can consider things like skill and tactics, maybe even morale could be an element to consider?
Froome got more than draft wattage savings from sitting behind LRP
Dear Wiggo said:coinneach said:ebandit said:
+1
But since when did the Clinic ever care about tactics or skill?
FWIW, I think this years victory was incredibly close, if Porte hadn't recovered enough to help Froome on the Alpe, he'd have lost.......what would the clinic get upset about then
Does anyone wish to calculate the draft wattage savings of someone as big as Froome behind someone as small as Porte, doing 20km/hr up an 8% gradient?
At a guess, it would be rounding errors on the measured power.
But if the clinic can consider things like skill and tactics, maybe even morale could be an element to consider?
Froome got more than draft wattage savings from sitting behind LRP
Re: Re:
What has changed in Sky tactics this year?coinneach said:ebandit said:
+1
But since when did the Clinic ever care about tactics or skill?
FWIW, I think this years victory was incredibly close, if Porte hadn't recovered enough to help Froome on the Alpe, he'd have lost.......what would the clinic get upset about then
- Sep 29, 2012
- 12,197
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Re: Re:
Reads 1997. Interprets as 60s-80s.
Light goes on.
So even if Brailsford doesn't tell them what to think, they will think it anyway.
Amazeballs.
Ramon Koran said:That indicates not more but less doping, in the epo era racing was much closer compared to the 60's, 70's, 80's. We now have gaps similar to the 60's-80's era, seems positive to me.Benotti69 said:coinneach said:ebandit said:
+1
But since when did the Clinic ever care about tactics or skill?
FWIW, I think this years victory was incredibly close, if Porte hadn't recovered enough to help Froome on the Alpe, he'd have lost.......what would the clinic get upset about then
You do realise that only 15 riders finished within 1 hour of Froome. 4 of them GT winners. Last time only 15 riders could finish under an hour down on the winner, 1997.
But since when skyfans ever look past what Sky tell them.
Reads 1997. Interprets as 60s-80s.
Light goes on.
So even if Brailsford doesn't tell them what to think, they will think it anyway.
Amazeballs.
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