Did Lance try to come back clean?

[ChrisE]

He was probably doped in 2009. Being out of the sport for 3 years, his age, and the collarbone and he still placed 3rd. His talent it unquestionable.

Another year of training/racing and he would have won 2010 easily if he was on a program. He was probably the cleanest in the peloton in 2010 and still finished decently.

 

[Benotti69]

He was probably doped in 2009. Being out of the sport for 3 years, his age, and the collarbone and he still placed 3rd. His talent it unquestionable.

Another year of training/racing and he would have won 2010 easily if he was on a program. He was probably the cleanest in the peloton in 2010 and still finished decently.

Keep dreaming. Him and Ferarri are only friends of course. I imagine it will all be made clear when the money trail shows how much he paid Ferarri in 2009 and then in 2010. His talent from a syringe is absolutely unquestionable.

 

[Siriuscat]

He came back doped to the gills, 09 was about legacy and number 8, he was beaten by greater talent despite the crap him and the hog pulled on Contador.

I'd agree that 2010 he was cleaner but not out of choice purely because of the heat that was following him.

If we think that Armstrong had any intentions of racing clean we are deluding ourselves!

 

[ChrisE]

Keep dreaming. Him and Ferarri are only friends of course. I imagine it will all be made clear when the money trail shows how much he paid Ferarri in 2009 and then in 2010. His talent from a syringe is absolutely unquestionable.

I know you are but what am I?

 

[ChrisE]

He came back doped to the gills, 09 was about legacy and number 8, he was beaten by greater talent despite the crap him and the hog pulled on Contador.

I'd agree that 2010 he was cleaner but not out of choice purely because of the heat that was following him.

If we think that Armstrong had any intentions of racing clean we are deluding ourselves!

Ahh yes, the old "hide his wheels" and "be mean to him at dinner" card. How could somebody recover from that?

Another doper 13 years younger than him beat him. What does that prove?

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Year one of the comeback, as dirty as ever before the race and during it.

Year two, dirty preperation, but during the race i think he eased off a bit, and coupled with the feds threat messing up with his brain it all went a bit wrong.

His performance in that second tour was at times embarrasing.

Sounds plausible.

He started that 2010 Tour with a bang. Came in 4th in the prologue, beating Contador among others. Course, road conditions were favorable, but still, his best performance since his comeback apart from his stellar ride up Ventoux the year prior. That 4th placing seems indicative of a dirty preparation, but then again, he wasn't caught, so...

After that prologue he showed no peak form whatsoever, even before he crashed. That cobbles stage... he had his share of bad luck, but it was obvious that he didn't have any power relative to some other GC contenders.

 

[MacRoadie]

Ahh yes, the old "hide his wheels" and "be mean to him at dinner" card. How could somebody recover from that?

I think it was more the "Yes, you're the undisputed team leader, oh wait, no you're not the leader, and the leader will be decided on the road" and the "You're not allowed to ride the race to win, or deviate from our plan that calls for you to wait for Lance" cards...

 

[BroDeal]

I think he was using insulin maybe combined with HGH in the first half of 2010. He had a serious case of roid gut. His subcutaneous fat percent was very low, but it looked like he was carrying a lot of visceral fat.

"I don't have roid gut. I'm just big boned!"

 

[masking_agent]

Yeah

The transfusion kits they found were just plastic lunch bags, He talked with Ferrari all the time because he is a "Family Friend", He let the testers wait for an hour because he needed to take a shower, or have some coffee.

The better question is what was he taking in 2009 that got him so skinny? It was unnatural how thin he was at the Tour

yes !!! I was asking the same thing after watching the 2000 tour.. holee gaunt

 

[AngusW]

Ahh yes, the old "hide his wheels" and "be mean to him at dinner" card. How could somebody recover from that?

Another doper 13 years younger than him beat him. What does that prove?

Are you referring to Andy Schleck? Contador is 11 years younger than LA.

 

[AngusW]

He doped to the core the first year back. The second year I think there was too much he to be sure that he could get away with it. Nobody drops from making the podium to being complete cannon fodder in one year.

Cadel Evans did so in 2009 (30th) after being on the podium in 2008 (2nd).

Christ, on some of the previous teams Postal teams, he would have been worse than the 9th man.

Last man for Discovery/Postal 1999-2005

1999 140. Pascal Deramé (Fra) US Postal
2000 110 Frankie Andreu (USA) US Postal Service
2001 101 Steffen Kjaergaard (Nor) US Postal Service
2002 89 Benoit Joachim (Lux) US Postal Service
2003 102 Pavel Padrnos (Cze) US Postal-Berry Floor
2004 80 Viatcheslav Ekimov (Rus) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
2005 107 Benjamin Noval (Spa) Discovery Channel

 

[Altitude]

The better question is what was he taking in 2009 that got him so skinny? It was unnatural how thin he was at the Tour

Is that sarcasm? He still had quite a bit of unnecessary muscle in 2009

 

[Siriuscat]

Ahh yes, the old "hide his wheels" and "be mean to him at dinner" card. How could somebody recover from that?

Another doper 13 years younger than him beat him. What does that prove?

Now I thought the basis of all teams was to work with each other to ensure the riders were at their best.....of course with Armstrong all that conceptual teamwork thinking goes straight out the window.

What does that prove?? On the assumption that they all dope to a greater or lesser extent, a greater raw talent beat him, simples, there was no way Armstrong turned up at the 2009 tour without the best "preparation" possible to allow him to win.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I don't think there was any difference to his preparation between 2009 and 10, as highlighted by his 4th in the prologue. Then there was disappointment on cobbles and all the crashes in the first high mountains stages, ending any chances of a high GC finish. No major risks would have been taken after that.

I still reckon that Lance finishing 3rd in '09 was incredible at his age; even given the poor attitude he Johan displayed towards Contador. On Romme and Venteoux he was still amongst the top 6 climbers in the field - not a bad achievement.

Of course Lance wasn't quite as strong in that comeback. He was 4 years older. Wouldn't have thought the doping side of things had much to do with that.

Since he has left us again the doping does seem to have dropped off - highlighted by this years TDF, with Voekler hanging with the head of states and the times on PDB and Alp being relatively human. Must increase the temptation further for someone to go all out though next year...

 

[McLovin]

I think the Ramaz stage blew his plans, and I'm not talkin about that fall. If only the first mountain stage came after the rest day. Then, on Madeleine he was on things again, maybe he was thinkin at a stage win. By the Pau stage, he had problems stayin' with no-names on Aubisque. So, I think he ended his program the day before Madeleine, and we saw the real Lance all the way to Paris.

 

[Swabian Lass]

2009? I think that was same old, same old. Yes, he had his usual "support".

2010? Harder to say. I like the theory that his prep was the same (I think this is very likely) he started off on the juice, and dropped it when he crashed out of contention/because it was too risky. On the other hand, he would have been fresh for the prologue. Maybe nothing changed, but for some people there comes an age when even transfusions don't cut it anymore.

 

[thehog]

I don't think there was any difference to his preparation between 2009 and 10, as highlighted by his 4th in the prologue. Then there was disappointment on cobbles and all the crashes in the first high mountains stages, ending any chances of a high GC finish. No major risks would have been taken after that.

I still reckon that Lance finishing 3rd in '09 was incredible at his age; even given the poor attitude he Johan displayed towards Contador. On Romme and Venteoux he was still amongst the top 6 climbers in the field - not a bad achievement.

Of course Lance wasn't quite as strong in that comeback. He was 4 years older. Wouldn't have thought the doping side of things had much to do with that.

Since he has left us again the doping does seem to have dropped off - highlighted by this years TDF, with Voekler hanging with the head of states and the times on PDB and Alp being relatively human. Must increase the temptation further for someone to go all out though next year...

I would say 2009 was out of control. Yes he was a 7 time winner but the fact that he could have 4 years out drink a lot of beer then come back, break a collarbone and finish 3rd is pulling the chain of a lot of people. Even for a seasoned professional a broken collarbone really spells the end of the season. This fact alone that I really didn’t buy it at all. Also a watered down Tour route assisted and the fact Astana forced the peloton to soft-pedal over the Tourmalet etc. meant Armstrong could pick his moments. There is a youtube vid out there of one stage in the 09 Tour whereby Armstrong is dropped but then rides back to the leaders in a 5km solo attack. It was beyond human norms. I’ll find the link. I agree with others here The minute you he came back the rest of the field knew they had to dial back into the dope again. That’s my worry about 2012 and Shleck. Riis and Contador must be sitting there thinking we can’t afford not to have the preparation ready in case Andy starts TT’ing like Big Mig.

 

[ChrisE]

Now I thought the basis of all teams was to work with each other to ensure the riders were at their best.....of course with Armstrong all that conceptual teamwork thinking goes straight out the window.

What does that prove?? On the assumption that they all dope to a greater or lesser extent, a greater raw talent beat him, simples, there was no way Armstrong turned up at the 2009 tour without the best "preparation" possible to allow him to win.

Better raw talent proven by beating somebody 11 years older who has been out of the sport for 3 years, equally as doped. Gotcha.

Could AC beat a 2001 LA? I doubt it, but who knows.

 

[poupou]

Better raw talent proven by beating somebody 11 years older who has been out of the sport for 3 years, equally as doped. Gotcha.

Could AC beat a 2001 LA? I doubt it, but who knows.

II have no doubt that most of the riders are able to beat a clean version of 2001 LA on a GT, or any race with 3 mountain stages!

 

[ChrisE]

II have no doubt that most of the riders are able to beat a clean version of 2001 LA on a GT, or any race with 3 mountain stages!

Well good for you, poopoo.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Could AC beat a 2001 LA? I doubt it, but who knows.

Put them on the same juice, and i can promise you that a Ferrari Enzo
with an V12 couldnt follow Contador...

 

[Soloist]

I would say 2009 was out of control. Yes he was a 7 time winner but the fact that he could have 4 years out drink a lot of beer then come back, break a collarbone and finish 3rd is pulling the chain of a lot of people. Even for a seasoned professional a broken collarbone really spells the end of the season. This fact alone that I really didn’t buy it at all. Also a watered down Tour route assisted and the fact Astana forced the peloton to soft-pedal over the Tourmalet etc. meant Armstrong could pick his moments. There is a youtube vid out there of one stage in the 09 Tour whereby Armstrong is dropped but then rides back to the leaders in a 5km solo attack. It was beyond human norms. I’ll find the link. I agree with others here The minute you he came back the rest of the field knew they had to dial back into the dope again. That’s my worry about 2012 and Shleck. Riis and Contador must be sitting there thinking we can’t afford not to have the preparation ready in case Andy starts TT’ing like Big Mig.

Right, and if you check the calendar for that year, his solo attack was the day after a rest day. Hmmm.

 

[poupou]

Well good for you, poopoo.

You just have to look how strong was Lance from 1993-1996 on mountain stages.
Wasn't Lance physiologicaly tested for Olympic Games in 1996 ? May you recall us who had concluded that Lance has to focus on one-day races because of his lack of recovering ?

 

[hrotha]

Even for a seasoned professional a broken collarbone really spells the end of the season.

Wait, what?

 

[craig1985]

Wait, what?

That's what I thought. Most pro's who break a collarbone get surgery the next day or the day after, and are back on the bike after three weeks (on the road that is). Brad McGee broke his collarbone and was competing at the Sydney Olympics and won Gold IIRC after two weeks. And after Armstrong broke his collarbone he flew back to the States immediately and got it operated and was riding on the road after 10 days. I'm not disagreeing about him charging for the '09 race, but it's not like he had the same injury as Rubén Plaza. Hell Cadel Evans broke his CB three times in 2003!