Did Lance try to come back clean?

[benlondon]

I've had this theory for a while that when Armstrong came back he tried to do it clean. I imagine is was nagging away at him during his first retirement - the fact that for every one of his Tour wins he was living a lie & doped to the eyeballs.
When he came back he seemed to be back in the pack. I don't remember a single outstanding TT performance for example when before he'd been winning time trials by big chunks of time.
So my theory is he tried to win clean and couldn't.

 

[Zweistein]

He doped to the core the first year back. The second year I think there was too much he to be sure that he could get away with it. Nobody drops from making the podium to being complete cannon fodder in one year. Christ, on some of the previous teams Postal teams, he would have been worse than the 9th man.

 

[python]

benlondon, it's hard for me to entertain if you are serious or how much of the '2nd coming' you actually followed, but his fiasco with catlin, that 'individual monitoring program' lauded to the whole world and ending with catlin's dismissal by the fraud, should answer your question conclusively.

if he ever seriously intended to at least provide a plausible cover to his farce, he'd do everything possible to keep his word to catlin. common sense, really.

But as soon as catlin's reputation was sucked dry at that 1 h press-conference, he was dumped by the king of unscrupulous just as every one else who outlived their usefulness.

 

[Benotti69]

in a word, NO.

Not even in his second year did he ride clean in my opinion, his performance was completely affected by what was happening with the Feds, which led to his poor placings, with the exception TdS (2nd).

 

[Race Radio]

Yeah

The transfusion kits they found were just plastic lunch bags, He talked with Ferrari all the time because he is a "Family Friend", He let the testers wait for an hour because he needed to take a shower, or have some coffee.

The better question is what was he taking in 2009 that got him so skinny? It was unnatural how thin he was at the Tour

 

[Benotti69]

Yeah

The transfusion kits they found were just plastic lunch bags, He talked with Ferrari all the time because he is a "Family Friend", He let the testers wait for an hour because he needed to take a shower, or have some coffee.

The better question is what was he taking in 2009 that got him so skinny? It was unnatural how thin he was at the Tour

and how it wasn't detected!

 

[palmerq]

I will add my vote to definently not, not that there is much doubt for anyone :S.... I think doping is a bit harder these days and you cant just take whatever you want so in myopinion his doping was less than his 7 in a row but the whole of astana were blood doping that year and probably most of the other teams. Maybe the 2nd year of the comeback he wasnt doping..

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Lance did post his test results up for all to see and after people noted that it was suspicious that the hematocrit values would decrease then jump back up to around 43% and that he finished the Tour with more hematocrit than he started it, he took the numbers down.

 

[Anonymous]

Year one of the comeback, as dirty as ever before the race and during it.

Year two, dirty preperation, but during the race i think he eased off a bit, and coupled with the feds threat messing up with his brain it all went a bit wrong.

His performance in that second tour was at times embarrasing.

 

[Polish]

If there was any doubt that Lance was the most tested athlete ever, the comeback smashed those doubts.
Tested here, tested there, tested tested everywhere.

Remember when Inspector Bordry took pee/blood/fingernail/hair samples?
Clean, clean, clean, and clean.
Did Bordry take hair samples from Alberto? Of course not. Not most tested.
"But Lance had exclusive access to Dr Ferrari Special Shampoo"
Sure, whatever guys.

The USADA and the AFLD were OBSESSED with catching Lance.
Failed.

Must have drove Mr Bordry crazy.
Forced him into early "retirement".
Gave him that nevous eyetwitch thing. Yikes.

 

[Polish]

Year one of the comeback, as dirty as ever before the race and during it.

Year two, dirty preperation, but during the race i think he eased off a bit, and coupled with the feds threat messing up with his brain it all went a bit wrong.

His performance in that second tour was at times embarrasing.

Three Final Podium appearances in Paris those two years.
The crowds loved it.
How did Bradley do btw?

 

[hrotha]

I believe it's possible that he briefly attempted to come back clean, yes.

Wait, we're talking about 1998, right?

 

[Zweistein]

I believe it's possible that he briefly attempted to come back clean, yes.

Wait, we're talking about 1998, right?

But why would he endanger his life for a bike race?

 

[thehog]

Vaughters called him out. He thought more doping in the 09 Tour than before.

The Catlin program was used to get a soft landing back into the sport.

Armstrong has been doping since he was 17 - he knows no other way. Even in 2010 he was still working with Ferrari. It wasn't tll Floyd starting emailing him did he get fat & stopped racing in Europe and wasnt sure which way to turn. At the Tour he was finished. He was out of ideas without dope to fall back upon. He couldn't risk a transfusion during the race - he was being followed & he knew it.

 

[The Hitch]

On the other hand, Lance didnt appear to suspicious in that suspicion list

Year one of the comeback, as dirty as ever before the race and during it.

Year two, dirty preperation, but during the race i think he eased off a bit, and coupled with the feds threat messing up with his brain it all went a bit wrong.

His performance in that second tour was at times embarrasing.

His best performances came after rest days. Loses 10 minutes on Morzine but stays in Basso group on Madeline.

He failed to beat a bunch of good 1 day riders in a high mountain stage (yes 60k from the finish, but far more suited to him still than anyone else) even with Horner working for him in the break, the day before the rest day. Came in 5th or something.

Barredos attack from that group near the end, showed more heart than Lances entire comeback.

Rest day comes and goes, and a Lance, tired after the day in the break, posts a very good time up Tourmalet.

 

[Neworld]

Did Bordry take hair samples from Alberto? Of course not. Not most tested?

Facts and detailed support please. Could you list the number and type of samples from LA, AC and BW for example.

If you know LA was the most tested then you MUST have access and knowledge of the other competitors and their sampling. Please share that data set with us.

cricket, cricket

NW

 

[Big Doopie]

without a doubt he was doping.

he only came back because he got the green light from ferrari that he would be able to dope. i suspected as much at the time and said so here and on other boards. now it has been officially confirmed.

2009 he was doped to the gills, lost a lot of weight very suddenly, and had stellar perfs during the tour coming out of rest days. we also know that he was being protected by the uci.

2010 landis and feds made it tough. however, armstrong's unbelievable improvement from tour of gila itt to 4th in the tour prologue showed that ferrari had prepped him well going into the tour. we now know that he met ferrari just days before the tour which (very importantly) started outside of france.

his perf at the 2010 tour went steadily downhill from the prologue to being not so powerful along the cobbles, to looking strained on the first medium mountain stage, to losing a ton of time on the next day. refill day (that should always be held after some mountains like it was that year) came a little late and he couldn't risk too much with the scrutiny, nor was it worth it by then.

as for hrotha's claim/joke about 1998. Yes, i agree that i think he tried to come back initially without epo. and that led him to leave paris-nice. it was his cynical decision to go back to epo and ferrari in may of that year that lead to the fraud -- though myth had it that it was due to a week in the hills of carolina with bob roll.

 

[BroDeal]

Did Armstrong dope during his return?

 

[zlev11]

His best performances came after rest days. Loses 10 minutes on Morzine but stays in Basso group on Madeline.

keep in mind he crashed about 3 times on the Morzine-Avoriaz stage. i feel like he was planning on going full tilt with the doping until that stage, where after that he had lost so much time there was no reason to anymore.

 

[thehog]

keep in mind he crashed about 3 times on the Morzine-Avoriaz stage. i feel like he was planning on going full tilt with the doping until that stage, where after that he had lost so much time there was no reason to anymore.

What? Flushed his own bloodbag down the toilet?

 

[mewmewmew13]

He's no dummy.
Don't think he would even entertain the idea that he could come back to try for a win without his usual 'diet'...he knew da** well that most of the other top contenders would not be clean...

..anyway, I don't believe he has done that many (if any) sporting events in his adult life without being 'helped'.

 

[craig1985]

in a word, NO.

Not even in his second year did he ride clean in my opinion, his performance was completely affected by what was happening with the Feds, which led to his poor placings, with the exception TdS (2nd).

I also think crashing quite a lot (compared to 1999-2005, and 2009 where he barely even crashed) also played a part as well. That and being a couple months short of 39.

I would say he was cleaner in 2010 compared to 2009.

 

[Benotti69]

I also think crashing quite a lot (compared to 1999-2005, and 2009 where he barely even crashed) also played a part as well. That and being a couple months short of 39.

I would say he was cleaner in 2010 compared to 2009.

I think RaceRadio put 2010 in perspective when he suggested Tex was being watched, hence no blood bags during the TdF and maybe he wasn't able to get with his full program due to this. Horner seemed to be doing Ok at 39. Would have been interesting to see what Horner could've done at this years TdF given his age. Maybe he would've really embarrassed his boss's effort of 2010 with top 5 or 10 finish.

I dont think Tex was planning on riding 2010 cleaner if he was indeed doing so.

 

[poupou]

There is still somewhere his famous "clean" blood values showing that blood extraction and reinfusion were probably done, expecially prior and during Giro and TDF.
Did he has scheduled a new attempt of hour world record to work again with Dr. Ferrari?

 

[pedaling squares]

The suspicious blood values, the performances after rest days, the delays in the bus and in the shower... I think we can rest assured that he did not try to come back clean. I wonder though, if we can draw somewhat of a comparison between Armstrong's 2010 performance and Schleck's 2011 performance. I suspect they eased off the pedal a bit.