Did Vino pay for this victory?

[Vino attacks everyone]

I don't think it's too likely he sold it, mostly 'cause I can't imagine what someone would have to pay a person to do it, but it was a very unusual sprint with a lot of talking beforehand. The question certainly came to my mind knowing how often these thing happen. But for crying out loud, who would sell olympic gold to get a silver. I dunno. Never will. Vino's emotion on the podium seemed heartfelt, hard to imagine feeling that way if you bought the final placing.

thank you, O' wise one

 

[mewmewmew13]

What an idiotic question, this doesn't even warrant a response.

Exactly.

Stop trying to make trouble where there is none

 

[Caruut]

Uran worked a lot in a situation where he was likely to get second. On the face of it, this is a little odd, but the Olympics are a bit different. While I think that the Olympics is roughly the same prestige as a Monument or Worlds win, 2nd and 3rd are far more prestigious than a Monument or Worlds 2nd or 3rd for me. The incentive to work for 2nd place is quite high.

We saw this illustrated quite well in the women's race. When the escape group of 4 were out, they weren't working very well together. Once Olds was dropped Vos, Armistead and Zabelinskaya started working really well together - everyone knew they would get a medal if they could stay away, whereas with 4 someone wouldn't so there was less cohesion.

Likewise, Uran knew he was guaranteed silver if he worked to stay away with Vino, and that silver was a great result for him. The move was a little odd, but he's not an experienced finisher and Vino is hugely experienced.

 

[pkreed71]

I am no English native so please explain...

Don't worry. I speak English and have never heard YMMV used before.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Out of interest, Uran spent this June in Vancouver studying English and riding his bike around town.

I'm sure Vino can negotiate in any language but there's no way Uran sold out a gold medal!

The history of the sport is working against your opinion. I mean, the post-TdF criteriums are still pre-determined in 2012.

Uran's got three choices:
1. Perhaps a gold against a strong finisher and no payout.
2. Definitely a silver and no payout.
3. Definitely a silver and a payout.

How much does the IOC payout for second place?

Do I believe without a doubt it was bought? No. Preponderance of evidence works against an honest outcome.

 

[gatete]

The scenario that goes along the lines of Vino paying Uran is complete bs... I mean really? How much could Vino have offered? 100 grand? 200? 1mill?
Winning the Olympics would have rocketed Uran into stardom. His yearly paycheck would have increased considerably (undoubtedly more than than the Vino's bribe - if we're to keep it under reasonable terms) plus... HE WOULD HAVE WON THE FRIGGIN' OLYMPICS!

rant over

But now with Vino's win, he's going to be showered with deals... oh wait....

 

[Viking]

Let's add some sanity to this thread...

 

[Dedelou]

The history of the sport is working against your opinion. I mean, the post-TdF criteriums are still pre-determined in 2012.

Uran's got three choices:
1. Perhaps a gold against a strong finisher and no payout.
2. Definitely a silver and no payout.
3. Definitely a silver and a payout.

How much does the IOC payout for second place?

Do I believe without a doubt it was bought? No. Preponderance of evidence works against an honest outcome.

preponderance of evidences? Only a fool would buy what he can get for nothing. Are you saying that there is a huge amount of evidence that Vino is a fool? I don't know how often you go shopping in Kazakhstan but the merchants there don't generally buy what they can get for free. No sir. if you were to tell me that Uran tried to buy himself a victory from Vino i might believe you. (he could use something for his palmares. I can't recal him winning a single race yet as a pro)That man was beaten the moment he broke away from the chase group, Vino was on him, used him to put distance on the hesitant chasers and drop him like a sac with 247 meters to go.

 

[Nederick]

To the posters calling Uran's moment of inattention the dumbest move ever in cycling, how do you label the rest of the riders in the lead bunch who didn't get either a silver, or a bronze medal in this race? Especially the ones who had team-members to burn to make the catch? And how would you label Team GB? Good trolling poll, I must say....

 

[joe_papp]

gutter-trolling

I don't see where this is trolling. Bike races have historically been bought and paid for, and there was a lot of discussion at the end of the race, and a very odd maneuver by Uran at the end.

Not saying it was paid for, but the question is legit.

It's legitimate to insinuate both fraud and cheating when there is absolutely no evidence to back up such an assertion? Once again, high editorial standards are revealed...

Actually, except for obviously-biased users of internet forums, there's not even a credible suggestion of fraud or cheating.

It's unbelievable the tripe that is generated by a fine Vino win and it should be embarrassing for the owners/operators of this website/forum that the level of discourse is so low as to permit and, apparently, encourage such gutter-trolling.

And the following isn't a personal attack, but merely reports details of the last 20sec of my life and experience at this forum. I tried to move you onto my ignore list so that in the future I would be spared such disagreeable, incendiary, baseless and biased posting, but unfortunately because you're a moderator I couldn't. That hardly seems fair given how distasteful I find your support of obvious baiting and trolling to be.

Exactly.

Stop trying to make trouble where there is none

And yet that is exactly the kind of incendiary behavior that apparently is desired and encouraged here. Ridiculous.

Perhaps I'll start a poll asking if Bradley Wiggins took two infusions of blood or three during his recent Tour de France win.

 

[DirtyWorks]

That man was beaten the moment he broke away from the chase group, Vino was on him, used him to put distance on the hesitant chasers and drop him like a sac with 247 meters to go.

That's plausible too. I actually agree this is the likely interpretation given a wiley old fox was finishing 200k with a young rider.

Maybe another way to say it, in the unlikely event it came out in the press that Vino bought his gold, **nobody** that's followed UCI's pro cycling for a decade or more should be surprised. That kind of thing threatens the Olympic illusion. It would be supressed.

Joe and others Vino's history super-charges any suspicions too. I agree it could be a real win, but the sport has been buying and selling wins for a very long time.

 

[the asian]

Don't think so. Colombia has won only one Gold Medal in it's history and It's highly unlikely Uran would trade away a gold medal and the opportunity to be a national hero, even if a lucrative contract at Astana was on the offer.

 

[Praetor]

I think Uran must have come close to fracturing his neck, I didn't know someone could look away that hard. And obviously intensly checking the side where you know Vinokourov is not going to attack.

It was fairly obvious.

 

[hrotha]

To the posters calling Uran's moment of inattention the dumbest move ever in cycling, how do you label the rest of the riders in the lead bunch who didn't get either a silver, or a bronze medal in this race? Especially the ones who had team-members to burn to make the catch? And how would you label Team GB? Good trolling poll, I must say....

Yeah no that's silly. The others in the break were beaten the same way we've seen countless times. What Urán did? Not normal. Not smart.

Obviously he did great to be up there with Vino in the first place, but don't try to convince us that taking your eyes off your rival (especially if it's Vino) for any length of time with ~250 m to go is not a dumb move.

 

[WindLessBreeze]

Designers Wanted

Of course I will not dignify a response to those serious allegations; unfounded, and without merit. I think SKY pays good money to all their riders, plus Colombia would have paid a premium bonus for the GOLD. It's just bashing by spoiled kids used to perks, benefits, and privileges.Gone*Blank....Rigo was just outfoxed by a dude more experienced in those kinds of situations. Please rewrite History one more time. Wrong tactics by both UK and Germany. (They though they were racing alone: Manxman-Goss-Greipel: Be like Marianne. Do your own thing)

 

[ItsWitz]

Winning gold in the olympics is once in a lifetime, I doubt any cyclist would take some money over olympic gold.

i bet that if alexi grewal had had a crystal ball before the olympics in L.A. ..... he would have sold his gold to Bauer ...!

 

[Nederick]

I never said it wasn't a dumb move. I just take issue with some calling it the dumbest ever move. That's a huge call to make.

Yeah no that's silly. The others in the break were beaten the same way we've seen countless times. What Urán did? Not normal. Not smart.

Obviously he did great to be up there with Vino in the first place, but don't try to convince us that taking your eyes off your rival (especially if it's Vino) for any length of time with ~250 m to go is not a dumb move.

 

[Hmmmmm]

In case you didn't know, Vino's done it before. Therefore, fair accusation to make in light of the strange finish.

Please provide proof. A link would be beneficial. Thank you.

 

[Bala Verde]

Please provide proof. A link would be beneficial. Thank you.

According to L'illustre

http://www.illustre.ch/Alexandre-Vi...me-Liege-Bastogne-Liege-Kolobnev_162322_.html

and

http://www.illustre.ch/cyclisme-cor...dre-Vinokourov-Alexandr-Kolobney_135723_.html

Oui, le cycliste Alexandre Vinokourov avait bien acheté sa victoire lors de Liège-Bastogne-Liège 2010. Mais l’Union cycliste internationale refuse d’enquêter. Les faits sont pourtant là: «L’illustré» publie la preuve du versement de 100 000 euros au Russe Kolobnev le 12 juillet 2010 sur un compte à Locarno.

Nous sommes aujourd’hui en mesure de publier la dernière preuve manquante: la copie du versement de 100 000 euros (virement AA4849135) envoyé par Vinokourov le 12 juillet 2010 depuis son compte du Crédit foncier de Monaco sur celui de la BSI à Locarno appartenant à Alexandr Kolobnev. Mais les choses ne s’arrêtent pas là: le 28 décembre 2010, Vinokourov fait parvenir un second versement à son ami Kolobnev de 50 000 euros (virement AA5537304)…

150K in total.

and the emails:

According to the magazine, Kolobnev admits to having let him win, “not so much because of our agreement, but mostly because of my feelings towards you and towards your situation.

"Even my wife was not too uneasy by the fact that I was second, because you were the first,” he continued.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/emails-between-vinokourov-and-kolobnev-published

<<Même ma femme n’était pas trop chagrinée par le fait que j’aie été deuxième, parce que tu étais le premier, poursuit Kolobnev dans son mail à Vinokourov. Si à ta place il y avait eu un autre que toi, j’aurais couru après la victoire, la gloire et les bonus (que j’ai dans mon contrat pour ces classiques). Ce jour-là, je me sentais plus fort que jamais. Maintenant, il ne me reste plus qu’à attendre patiemment pour savoir si tout cela n’était pas vain. Mon seul réconfort sur mon âme: c’est toi qui as gagné et pas un aborigène quelconque. Voici la copie de toutes mes coordonnées bancaires et efface ce mail de ta boîte, sinon je risque de me faire couper les couilles>>

----CN translated ----

If he had been up against someone else, “I would have gone for the victory, glory and bonus (in my contract that I have for these classics). That day I felt stronger than ever. Now it only remains for me to wait patiently to see if all this was not vain. My only comfort is that you won and not one of the natives (Belgian riders, ed.)

“Here is a copy of all my bank information and clear it from your mail box, or my balls may be cut off.”

Make of it what you will.

The Race

 

[Arnout]

What's the proof of that 100,000 by the way (not that I don't believe it), I don't see any reference to Kolobnev?

I also think Vino still won fair and square, just rewatch it. Kolobnev was genuinely spent or a very very good actor.

 

[Dedelou]

i bet that if alexi grewal had had a crystal ball before the olympics in L.A. ..... he would have sold his gold to Bauer ...!

how much are you willing to bet?

 

[Bala Verde]

What's the proof of that 100,000 by the way (not that I don't believe it), I don't see any reference to Kolobnev?

I also think Vino still won fair and square, just rewatch it. Kolobnev was genuinely spent or a very very good actor.

According to Illustre [see my previous post], who looked at bank transfers, 100K went into an account owned by Kolobnev, from a Vino account. I don't have a subscription to L'illustre, but I would assume they have the correspondent account for Kolobnev, where the 100K and then 50K occur.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

If we assume that the money and blah blah blah... Where is the evidence that it was for the victory and not just for colaborating all the way to the finish? My guess is that Vino would have beaten Kolobney 8 out of 10 times in that finish anyways...

 

[Le breton]

And I am sure that in your little paranoid world you got proof for this. And you are not just throwing out accusations in the air?

No, no, no accusation thrown in the air. I accuse myself of (trying to ) buy one once race (unfortunately one of the idiots in our breakaway made me fall soon after; it wasn't very expensive actually, I told them I had done all the work so they better not try to finish ahead of me).
I also occasionally arranged the finishing order with my friends even though we were not in the same team, like I let you win today but you help me in such and such race.

 

[The Hitch]

If we assume that the money and blah blah blah... Where is the evidence that it was for the victory and not just for colaborating all the way to the finish? My guess is that Vino would have beaten Kolobney 8 out of 10 times in that finish anyways...

yeah the money would presumably have been for Kolobnev to put in a lot of work in the first place.


Afterall the Vino Kolobnev group was holding off a group of the 3 pre race favorites working together, and then paried with ease a Gilbert attack, so devestating that El Pistrollero nearly had a seizure.

Kolobnev was genuinely spent or a very very good actor.

Of course he was genuinly spent. He was going toe to toe with Gilbert Valverde and Evans in a 250km monument.

Especially if Vino did pay him to put more effort into the pulls.