Did Vino pay for this victory?

[red_flanders]

It's legitimate to insinuate both fraud and cheating when there is absolutely no evidence to back up such an assertion? Once again, high editorial standards are revealed...

Actually, except for obviously-biased users of internet forums, there's not even a credible suggestion of fraud or cheating.

It's unbelievable the tripe that is generated by a fine Vino win and it should be embarrassing for the owners/operators of this website/forum that the level of discourse is so low as to permit and, apparently, encourage such gutter-trolling.

And the following isn't a personal attack, but merely reports details of the last 20sec of my life and experience at this forum. I tried to move you onto my ignore list so that in the future I would be spared such disagreeable, incendiary, baseless and biased posting, but unfortunately because you're a moderator I couldn't. That hardly seems fair given how distasteful I find your support of obvious baiting and trolling to be.

I like Vino, and thought it was a great race. I am pretty surprised at the level of reaction in this post quite frankly. Whether I thought the final placings were suspect or not, I would not have closed this thread. There are a host of threads in this forum with unsubstantiated allegations against riders, and those aren't banned either. I tend to err on the side of letting discussions flow rather than over-moderate, but that's probably an aside.

I hope you can take a longer view of my participation here and maybe your opinion will change.

 

[The Barb]

It's unlikely - but certainly not implausible.

The Kolobnev controversy, coupled with how extraordinarily ineptly Uran played the finish, means people are entitled to wonder.

 

[Carstenbf]

This place is getting a tad jaded for my liking ..

 

[Trev_S]

I'm totally serious. Uran is looking at the left for three seconds, doesn't see anybody, where would Vino be

In a 2 up sprint like that it's fairly common to see the lead rider look back to see what the other is up to. They are about to sprint for the line, if he isn't aware then the other gets the jump.
Vino was just smarter and as soon as Uran looked one way Vino sprinted the other and of course gets an immediate gap before Uran can react.

The same thing has occurred often enough in other races. Why do you think they often ride up along the fence line?
So they only have to cover one side and not two.
Unfortunately for Uran he wasn't on the fence so Vino had a choice of which side to go when the opportunity presented itself.

 

[Benedict XVI]

I like Vino, and thought it was a great race. I am pretty surprised at the level of reaction in this post quite frankly. Whether I thought the final placings were suspect or not, I would not have closed this thread. There are a host of threads in this forum with unsubstantiated allegations against riders, and those aren't banned either. I tend to err on the side of letting discussions flow rather than over-moderate, but that's probably an aside.

I hope you can take a longer view of my participation here and maybe your opinion will change.

Isn't "Did he dope?" = "Did he cheat?" = "Did he pay for his win?" basically the same kind of conversation? Yet the doping question posters are banned and/or moved to Clinic. This is kinda discriminatory way to moderate.

Additionally, all the "XX depreciation threads" are renamed into "XX discussion" threads, because it is disrespectful to riders. Yet, here we are - inside a most disrespectful thread, speculating away.

This is just wrong. Make posters provide some proof (wait for a legal conclusion, if there is any), or do NOT let them post this garbage.

 

[BigChain]

So did Vino manage to pay off the other 30+ riders in the final break to not chase him down? How did he manage that in the sapce of 10 minutes?

 

[python]

So did Vino manage to pay off the other 30+ riders in the final break to not chase him down? How did he manage that in the sapce of 10 minutes?

i wondered the same.

if someone wants to talk about some odd maneuvers, that's where they should start...

and why stop there...the entire bike racing and the london olympics are full of odd maneuvers.

odd maneuvers ?

the borderline trolling thread is odd maneuvers.

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

i wondered the same.

if someone wants to talk about some odd maneuvers, that's where they should start...

and why stop there...the entire bike racing and the london olympics are full of odd maneuvers.

odd maneuvers ?

the borderline trolling thread is odd maneuvers.

Did OP paid for his thread?

 

[TourOfSardinia]

If im columbian I tell him he dosent have enough money to tempt me put my life on the line.(yes it maybe sweeping generalisation and bordering on racism but selling a gold medal if your columbian could get you shot)

Although Columbian Gold has another association by which you might get shot!

 

[CobbleStoner]

Poll: Who Understands Cycling?

this thread is a good indicator of who understands cycling and who doesn't.
edit: really surprised that Boeing and SlowOldMan are on that list, not surprised that a moderator is

 

[rata de sentina]

Did OP paid for his thread?

Must have, the mods have a history of taking bribes to let clown threads like this run their course. After all conjecture=evidence doesn't it?

 

[hrotha]

While I'm not particularly inclined to believe Vino bought this race, asking the question is not trolling or anything. Gee, someone wonders if a rider who already bought a race may have done it again because the finale looked weird? Clearly he doesn't know anything about cycling.

 

[CobbleStoner]

While I'm not particularly inclined to believe Vino bought this race, asking the question is not trolling or anything. Gee, someone wonders if a rider who already bought a race may have done it again because the finale looked weird? Clearly he doesn't know anything about cycling.

then why don't you ask that about every race? every rider in the pro peloton has made a deal at the end of a race sometime in their career, so every rider is suspect, using your logic.
IF there was a conversation before the finish, it probably sounded like this:
Vino: 'nice attack Rigo, and congrats on your silver medal. there is no way you are beating me in heads up sprint unless it is a mountain top finish and I don't see any mountains in London'
Uran: 'Duh, tell me something I don't know'

or IF there was a mention of cash, it probably went like this:
Vino: 'hey Rigo, I'll bet 10,000 euros that you can't beat me in this sprint'
Uran: 'I'm not taking that bet, I'm a happy climber getting a silver medal on a flat parcourse'

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

While I'm not particularly inclined to believe Vino bought this race, asking the question is not trolling or anything.

Did you paid for this post?

 

[hrotha]

then why don't you ask that about every race? every rider in the pro peloton has made a deal at the end of a race sometime in their career, so every rider is suspect, using your logic.
IF there was a conversation before the finish, it probably sounded like this:
Vino: 'nice attack Rigo, and congrats on your silver medal. there is no way you are beating me in heads up sprint unless it is a mountain top finish and I don't see any mountains in London'
Uran: 'Duh, tell me something I don't know'

or IF there was a mention of cash, it probably went like this:
Vino: 'hey Rigo, I'll bet 10,000 euros that you can't beat me in this sprint'
Uran: 'I'm not taking that bet, I'm a happy climber getting a silver medal on a flat parcourse'

Unlike Vino, not every other rider is confirmed to have bought a race. There's a difference between making arrangements to make sure both riders in the break cooperate until the finish line and then let the best one win, and buying a race.

For the nth time, Urán has a decent kick. He had his chances.

And in case you didn't notice, I started my post by saying I don't believe Vino bought this race. But he has previous, it was an extremely weird finale, so it's only natural some people will be suspicious.

 

[CobbleStoner]

Unlike Vino, not every other rider is confirmed to have bought a race. There's a difference between making arrangements to make sure both riders in the break cooperate until the finish line and then let the best one win, and buying a race.

For the nth time, Urán has a decent kick. He had his chances.

And in case you didn't notice, I started my post by saying I don't believe Vino bought this race. But he has previous, it was an extremely weird finale, so it's only natural some people will be suspicious.

what was so weird about it? Vino made Uran lead out the final kilo, Uran slowed a bit a waited for Vino to jump, he didn't, at about 200 meters Uran was getting nervous and he looked behind to see what Vino was doing, everybody that has to lead out a heads up sprint looks behind, Vino was smart enough to wait for Uran to look, then jump on the opposite side of the head turn, perfect cagy tactics from a veteran, by the time Rigo found him, it was too late and he knew it, but he had to try for the cameras so it looked pretty pathetic, but it was a text book heads up sprint between un-evenly matched sprinters, nothing weird or unusual about if you are an experienced racer

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

My guess is that Vino would have beaten Kolobney 8 out of 10 times in that finish anyways...

Hihihihiihi. Nice one.

but it was a text book heads up sprint between un-evenly matched sprinters, nothing weird or unusual about if you are an experienced racer

Gotta be friggin kiddin me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikOz8uHuKa4

Textbook buy. Got not prob with it.

 

[CatsNK]

So did Vino manage to pay off the other 30+ riders in the final break to not chase him down? How did he manage that in the sapce of 10 minutes?

Exactly.

Back to Uran, how many words did Vino even exchange with him, anyway? 10?

Vino won the race. People who don't like it need to get over it. Vino is 37. He's got a few years of racing in the bag - it's not surprising that he would have a good idea of how to cleverly win a race.

 

[richwagmn]

Exactly.

Back to Uran, how many words did Vino even exchange with him, anyway? 10?

Vino won the race. People who don't like it need to get over it. Vino is 37. He's got a few years of racing in the bag - it's not surprising that he would have a good idea of how to cleverly win a race.

This is what's so stupid about conspiracy theories in general. They very quickly fall apart under the weight of any critical questioning.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

This is what's so stupid about conspiracy theories in general. They very quickly fall apart under the weight of any critical questioning.

Omg, the best argument so far. Anyone able to count to four has seen enough.

 

[King Boonen]

I said yes to see what people's reactions were.

Are people actually saying it seriously?

 

[shalgo]

what was so weird about it? Vino made Uran lead out the final kilo, Uran slowed a bit a waited for Vino to jump, he didn't, at about 200 meters Uran was getting nervous and he looked behind to see what Vino was doing, everybody that has to lead out a heads up sprint looks behind, Vino was smart enough to wait for Uran to look, then jump on the opposite side of the head turn, perfect cagy tactics from a veteran, by the time Rigo found him, it was too late and he knew it, but he had to try for the cameras so it looked pretty pathetic, but it was a text book heads up sprint between un-evenly matched sprinters, nothing weird or unusual about if you are an experienced racer

Did you actually watch the race? Uran looked to his right, saw that Vinokourov was there, and yet inexplicably looked to his left one second later. Uran didn't have to look to his left to see where Vino was--he had just looked to his right and seen Vino there.

I'm with Hrotha on this. I don't think Vino bought it. At least, I'd like to think he didn't. But given the Kolobnev LBL story and Uran's bizarre behavior, it is a legitimate question.

 

[hrotha]

what was so weird about it? Vino made Uran lead out the final kilo, Uran slowed a bit a waited for Vino to jump, he didn't, at about 200 meters Uran was getting nervous and he looked behind to see what Vino was doing, everybody that has to lead out a heads up sprint looks behind, Vino was smart enough to wait for Uran to look, then jump on the opposite side of the head turn, perfect cagy tactics from a veteran, by the time Rigo found him, it was too late and he knew it, but he had to try for the cameras so it looked pretty pathetic, but it was a text book heads up sprint between un-evenly matched sprinters, nothing weird or unusual about if you are an experienced racer

Urán wasn't looking at Vino, but checking his distance with the chase group, according to what he said.

I've never raced, but I've seen a fair number of races. If you're an experienced racer and you still sincerely think what Urán did was normal after watching the replay again, I'll be amazed.

He didn't look back to keep tabs on Vino. He looked back, completely disregarding Vino, for 2-3 seconds. He even changes his direction, opening the door to Vino, ffs. It was an extremely dumb move.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Unlike Vino, not every other rider is confirmed to have bought a race. There's a difference between making arrangements to make sure both riders in the break cooperate until the finish line and then let the best one win, and buying a race.

For the nth time, Urán has a decent kick. He had his chances.

And in case you didn't notice, I started my post by saying I don't believe Vino bought this race. But he has previous, it was an extremely weird finale, so it's only natural some people will be suspicious.

really?
How can you be so sure? (look at my previous post in this thread, to lazy to write again)

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Hihihihiihi. Nice one.

Gotta be friggin kiddin me.

Do you even know who Vinokourov is I wonder?