Dimension Data

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Don't think there is a thread on Team Dimension Data. Cav winning a stage merely highlights that. There is no testing in Africa or accredited WADA labs at present IIRC. So that is handy.

Yes, because they only ever ride or train in Africa... :idea:

Not many WADA accredited labs elsewhere and Lausanne has been discredited a long time ago.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

But here we suddenly have the UCI president's son on the payroll as a DS.

Are you **** kidding me?
Is cycling so **** up and corrupt these days that we should just move on from this? SSDD?

How can Cookson's antidoping efforts be taken seriously whilst his son is among those he should be policing?

Part one (bolded), yep, the good ol' boys are still alive, well, and scheming. Promoting their own interests. Lining their pockets.

For Cookson's efforts being taken seriously, I don't think anyone does believe or trust him anymore.

I understand your outcry. What a joke...

 

[King Boonen]

So are people saying Cav and EBH weren't doping at Sky and Sky/OPQS? Even though Sky were desperate for wins where EBH specialised and OPQS specifically bought Cav for wins at GTs and are pretty much considered by everyone to be so dirty they're not even worth discussing? Or do DD have access to some wonder drug no one has ever heard of? Is so why haven't they been winning more? They can't be any more "protected" at DD than at Sky based on the general thoughts in the clinic about Cookson's and Sky's interactions, so it's hardly likely they were kept off the drugs at that team if there was a program.

Cookson's son as a DS is really weird, but I thought people wanted anti-doping to be made independent as it's a conflict of interest when any cyclist on any team is caught doping, doesn't really matter if his son is involved or not. Still really weird though.

 

[gooner]

But how can you deal with the Oli Cookson situation?

You can ask Brian to declare his conflicts and remove them but can you stop his son from working in professional cycling based on the fact he is president.

Of course, it warrants attention, yet there isn't much you can do about it. He's entitled to work in the sport.

(not directed at you, KB)

 

[King Boonen]

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Organisation/17/41/07/RegisterofinterestsB.Cooksonamended_Neutral.pdf

He has declared his conflicts as he is required to do and must remove himself from situations and decisions should they arise.

Other than that, no, you can't ban his son from working in cycling just because he is president of the UCI. What are Oliver Cookson's qualifications though? Specifically for a DS role?

 

[thehog]

Re:

But how can you deal with the Oli Cookson situation?

You can ask Brian to declare his conflicts and remove them but can you stop his son from working in professional cycling based on the fact he is president.

Of course, it warrants attention, yet there isn't much you can do about it. He's entitled to work in the sport.

(not directed at you, KB)

Oli was in Columbia with Heano which is a clear conflict and should not have gone, along with Cookson Snr being brought to the ethics committee.

Employing family members for favoable treatment has been used since the beginning of gime, put simply Oli has no qualifications to hold the positions he has at two cycling teams.

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Investment management firm Goldman Sachs is looking into the hiring of the daughter of one of Prime Minister Najib Abdul Razak's close associates around the time when the firm was in talks with 1MDB, The Wall Street Journal reported .

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He quit the company in February and has since been subpoenaed to facilitate investigations into 1MDB by the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

The prime minister has denied misusing public funds for personal gain.

 

[sniper]

Re:

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Organisation/17/41/07/RegisterofinterestsB.Cooksonamended_Neutral.pdf

He has declared his conflicts as he is required to do and must remove himself from situations and decisions should they arise.

Other than that, no, you can't ban his son from working in cycling just because he is president of the UCI. What are Oliver Cookson's qualifications though? Specifically for a DS role?

Correction. We've discussed this document before. Cookson does the exact opposite of declaring his conflict of interest. He denies there are any.
"I don't believe that this represents a conflict of interest".

 

[sniper]

Re:

But how can you deal with the Oli Cookson situation?

You can ask Brian to declare his conflicts and remove them but can you stop his son from working in professional cycling based on the fact he is president.

Of course, it warrants attention, yet there isn't much you can do about it. He's entitled to work in the sport.

(not directed at you, KB)

If Brian cant remove the COIs, he shouldnt be president of the UCI.
Simples, imo.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...

Oli was in Columbia with Heano which is a clear conflict and should not have gone, along with Cookson Snr being brought to the ethics committee.

Employing family members for favoable treatment has been used since the beginning of gime, put simply Oli has no qualifications to hold the positions he has at two cycling teams.

...

exactemundo.

And to repeat, the conflicts of interest between UCI and Dimension Data run pretty deep:
viewtopic.php?p=1956321#p1956321

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Organisation/17/41/07/RegisterofinterestsB.Cooksonamended_Neutral.pdf

He has declared his conflicts as he is required to do and must remove himself from situations and decisions should they arise.

Other than that, no, you can't ban his son from working in cycling just because he is president of the UCI. What are Oliver Cookson's qualifications though? Specifically for a DS role?

Correction. We've discussed this document before. Cookson does the exact opposite of declaring his conflict of interest. He denies there are any.
"I don't believe that this represents a conflict of interest".

Don't correct my posts thank you very much. He has clearly declared that his son is involved with a team (a possible conflict of interest), how he feels he is separated from this and that he will remove himself from any matter should a conflict arise.

You are entitled to your own opinion about whether he will do it or not, as is everyone else, but don't try and twist that into anything other what it is. An opinion.

 

[Mr.38%]

Zemke has his history for sure but who hasn't these days?

The question is: With the exception of Cummings' stunts, I see no evidence or something eyebrow-raising in the team's performances. Do we accuse anyone just for the sake of accusing (and opening another thread)?

Find a dodgy doctor in the team and we'll start talking. And yes, SA was a doping heaven but where is the actual evidence? The argument about missing WADA labs is laughable, though.

 

[Armchaircyclist]

Re:

So are people saying Cav and EBH weren't doping at Sky and Sky/OPQS? Even though Sky were desperate for wins where EBH specialised ..

quote]

Interesting that you did not notice how Sky turned EBH into a useless "super-domestique"... He has made his money now though, and is back to training the way he knows works for him, and is in super shape for this season.
He has not been training in africa, Norway has plenty of testing going on, not that it would make the clinic "believe"...

 

[sniper]

Re:

Zemke has his history for sure but who hasn't these days?

in procycling, indeed nearly all have their history.

Which should tell you a thing or two about procycling.

What I don't get is people using that as an excuse to apologize/exonerate these guys along the lines of "well they're all dodgy, so actually no-one's dodgy".

The question is: With the exception of Cummings' stunts, I see no evidence or something eyebrow-raising in the team's performances. Do we accuse anyone just for the sake of accusing ?

strawman.

(and opening another thread)

If you're ok with Oliver working for them, you can just ignore the thread.

Find a dodgy doctor in the team and we'll start talking.

why dont you help us out here.

And yes, SA was a doping heaven but where is the actual evidence?

evidence for what?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

So are people saying Cav and EBH weren't doping at Sky and Sky/OPQS? Even though Sky were desperate for wins where EBH specialised ..

quote]

Interesting that you did not notice how Sky turned EBH into a useless "super-domestique"... He has made his money now though, and is back to training the way he knows works for him, and is in super shape for this season.
He has not been training in africa, Norway has plenty of testing going on, not that it would make the clinic "believe"...

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean? As a domestique I always thought EBH rode as you would expect him to ride, strong early on but falling away when the mountains got high.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
Don't correct my posts thank you very much.

lol. deal with it.
you said he "has declared his conflicts".
he's done the opposite.
that's nothing to do with opinion.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

...
Don't correct my posts thank you very much.

lol. deal with it.
you said he "has declared his conflicts".
he's done the opposite.
that's nothing to do with opinion.

Tell me which conflicts have not been declared in that document then? He has clearly stated his son works for DD. He has said that currently he does not believe it represents a problem but will remove himself if it does. That is pretty much a text book example declaring a possible conflict of interest.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
Don't correct my posts thank you very much.

lol. deal with it.
you said he "has declared his conflicts".
he's done the opposite.
that's nothing to do with opinion.

Tell me which conflicts have not been declared in that document then? He has clearly stated his son works for DD. He has said that currently he does not believe it represents a problem but will remove himself if it does.

you're now bending it like beckham. He doesn't say "he does not believe it represents a problem", he says "he does not believe it represents a conflict of interest". So he denies that there is a conflict of interest, whereas, objectively, there is/was one. Again, that's fact, not opinion.

That is pretty much a text book example declaring a possible conflict of interest.

denying a conflict of interest is declaring one? i'm confused.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

...
Don't correct my posts thank you very much.

lol. deal with it.
you said he "has declared his conflicts".
he's done the opposite.
that's nothing to do with opinion.

Tell me which conflicts have not been declared in that document then? He has clearly stated his son works for DD. He has said that currently he does not believe it represents a problem but will remove himself if it does.

you're now bending it like beckham. He doesn't say "he does not believe it represents a problem", he says "he does not believe it represents a conflict of interest". So he denies that there is a conflict of interest, whereas, objectively, there is/was one. Again, that's fact, not opinion.

That is pretty much a text book example declaring a possible conflict of interest.

denying a conflict of interest is declaring one? i'm confused.

From the document:

"4. The following facts and circumstances might be subject to possible conflict of interests:
None."

That's what it would look like if he thought it would never be a conflict of interest. Clearly it doesn't look like that.


His son working for a cycling team is not a permanent conflict of interest. When he signs off on what races will be in the WT, what pens to buy in Aigle and the myriad other decisions that have absolutely nothing to do with Dimension Data and their riders there is no conflict of interest. IF he is involved in a decision which directly affects Dimension Data that is a conflict of interest and that is fully covered in his statement:

"... and I undertake to exclude myself from involvement in any matter which might do so, should circumstances arise."

This is exactly how a statement of possible conflict of interest works. Whether he will adhere to it is open to speculation, but the statement isn't.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

"Correcting" other people's posts to change the sense of what they said is poor netiquette.

 

[Mr.38%]

Re: Re:

Zemke has his history for sure but who hasn't these days?

in procycling, indeed nearly all have their history.

Which should tell you a thing or two about procycling.

What I don't get is people using that as an excuse to apologize/exonerate these guys along the lines of "well they're all dodgy, so actually no-one's dodgy".

The question is: With the exception of Cummings' stunts, I see no evidence or something eyebrow-raising in the team's performances. Do we accuse anyone just for the sake of accusing ?

strawman.

(and opening another thread)

If you're ok with Oliver working for them, you can just ignore the thread.

Find a dodgy doctor in the team and we'll start talking.

why dont you help us out here.

And yes, SA was a doping heaven but where is the actual evidence?

evidence for what?

Look, you have nothing and still open a thread. Not even funky performances. This is ridiculous.

Why not wait until you have something that can be remotely interesting or valuable?

Oh wait, maybe there is one of your classic "rumors in the peloton"? Yeah, strawman...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Zemke has his history for sure but who hasn't these days?

in procycling, indeed nearly all have their history.

Which should tell you a thing or two about procycling.

What I don't get is people using that as an excuse to apologize/exonerate these guys along the lines of "well they're all dodgy, so actually no-one's dodgy".

The question is: With the exception of Cummings' stunts, I see no evidence or something eyebrow-raising in the team's performances. Do we accuse anyone just for the sake of accusing ?

strawman.

(and opening another thread)

If you're ok with Oliver working for them, you can just ignore the thread.

Find a dodgy doctor in the team and we'll start talking.

why dont you help us out here.

And yes, SA was a doping heaven but where is the actual evidence?

evidence for what?

Look, you have nothing and still open a thread. Not even funky performances. This is ridiculous.

Why not wait until you have something that can be remotely interesting or valuable?

Oh wait, maybe there is one of your classic "rumors in the peloton"? Yeah, strawman...

Every pro team is suspicious. The culture is to dope and cheat. This is no strawman, while we dont have positives no reason not to discuss it.

 

[sniper]

@Mr38%, again, if you don't find it "remotely interesting or valuable", feel free to put it (or me, or both) on your ignore list. I promise, no offense taken.
Now you're just wasting everybody's time.

@checkmypecks: agreed.

@kingboonen: it is not permanent, no, because Cookson can resign. As long as he doesn't, the conflict of interest pertains. And leave out the word "possible".

 

[King Boonen]

How does his son working for Dimension Data present a conflict of interest when deciding what pens to buy for Aigle?


Oh, I'm still waiting for someone to explain why supposedly doped riders riding on doped teams were rubbish (compared to expected performances) but are now good because of doping?

 

[sniper]

Re:

How does his son working for Dimension Data present a conflict of interest when deciding what pens to buy for Aigle?

That's just silly.

Oh, I'm still waiting for someone to explain why supposedly doped riders riding on doped teams were rubbish (compared to expected performances) but are now good because of doping?

Nobody claims this. strawman.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

How does his son working for Dimension Data present a conflict of interest when deciding what pens to buy for Aigle?

it's not about deciding what pens to buy.
but then you knew that.

Thank you, so you can now see that there is no permanent conflict of interest. Good to get that sorted.

Oh, I'm still waiting for someone to explain why supposedly doped riders riding on doped teams were rubbish (compared to expected performances) but are now good because of doping?

Nobody claims this. strawman.

Cav for a hattrick, at least.

No. No-one at all...