Disc brakes on road bikes...

[kwikki]

PT teams aren't interested from what I understand. For them it's just a massive ballache to satisfy the equipment sponsors. Did we hear an outcry from riders and teams when discs were re-banned by the UCI?

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Re:

PT teams aren't interested from what I understand. For them it's just a massive ballache to satisfy the equipment sponsors. Did we hear an outcry from riders and teams when discs were re-banned by the UCI?

No outcry, but the credibility of Ventoso's claim left a big question mark out there. Neither he or Movistar would comment when asked how a rider gets cut by a disc rotor when nobody from the two teams that were testing disc that day were even around him during the 'slaughter'. Dead silence. Nevermind the atrocious handling of disc brake testing by the UCI technical committee. You're going to test superior brakes at a race where they don't use any? Ok, only the UCI could come up with that gem.

Watch this off season. Half or more of the PT teams are going to be testing disc regardless of the current ban.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

PT teams aren't interested from what I understand. For them it's just a massive ballache to satisfy the equipment sponsors. Did we hear an outcry from riders and teams when discs were re-banned by the UCI?

No outcry, but the credibility of Ventoso's claim left a big question mark out there. Neither he or Movistar would comment when asked how a rider gets cut by a disc rotor when nobody from the two teams that were testing disc that day were even around him during the 'slaughter'. Dead silence. Nevermind the atrocious handling of disc brake testing by the UCI technical committee. You're going to test superior brakes at a race where they don't use any? Ok, only the UCI could come up with that gem.

Watch this off season. Half or more of the PT teams are going to be testing disc regardless of the current ban.

The 'testing' by teams never stopped. All those disc brake equipped bikes didn't go back to the manufacturer. They are still sitting in the service course of these teams and they are still being ridden by the real pros. It's why a lot of these guys actually have an opinion about discs..and most of the opinions are 'meh?'...I know the wrenches aren't thrilled about them...Setup/build time has increased...a LOT..

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

The only mod needed for winter riding here in the UK is a set of mudguards [fenders]. Mechanical gears and calipers work just fine year round.

I have no similar recent experience. Over the last 20 years, modern brakes, pads and rims have served just fine in all seasons and conditions.

Confirmation bias. How does your own personal experience relate or equate to others? Curious if all detractors of disc brakes, never mind the pro peloton for a moment, have any real world experience at all with them. Or are these comments purely based on conjecture? I live in the wettest region of the US and have yet to see a customer bring back a disc equipped bike with the explanation; 'meh, my old rim brakes worked just fine'.

It's not about detractors, etc., it's about 'are they worth it'? Wet, sloppy, touring, tandems, cross, commute in slop..yup, better than caliper but the argument for me is the marketing mantra that they are better in all places, on all bikes, all the time..along with fatter is better, tires that is. 'BETTER".

Heavier, less standards(mount type, axle type, rotor size type), more complicated, more expensive. If they work better for you..groovey. If ya gotta have them for your sunday coffee shop points, fine and dandy..even if the ride is your 30 miles, once a week, on flat, dry roads.

BUT please, mr spam, don't tell me I GOTTA have 'em or....'you think doping in racing is OK'..which is what scam said.

'k?

At risk of repeating oneself means different things to different people. I'm not much of a Strava user, but looking back on my days in Colorado I still hold a bunch of top 10's and podium KOM's on tons of descents all over the dry and dusty Front Range. I'm not a climber, but I drop like a stone. These were all done on road disc. I never touched those spots doing it on my old rim brakes. Fatter is better apparently, Mr. Crampandgoslo. Did you not notice that the entire PT ditched 23c for 25c tires?

Regards,
Mr. Spam?

Spam=Sram...not anything to do wth you. And 2mm? wow..fatter tires indeed. I have been using 25mm tubulars for years. Once again, at risk of repeating myself, the INDUSTRY is all about disc brakes and the INDUSTRY(sram/scam/spam/slam) insists you can't ride a bike w/o discs..otherwise you are a untrained, uneducated, dope loving luddite...eh?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

The only mod needed for winter riding here in the UK is a set of mudguards [fenders]. Mechanical gears and calipers work just fine year round.

I have no similar recent experience. Over the last 20 years, modern brakes, pads and rims have served just fine in all seasons and conditions.

Confirmation bias. How does your own personal experience relate or equate to others? Curious if all detractors of disc brakes, never mind the pro peloton for a moment, have any real world experience at all with them. Or are these comments purely based on conjecture? I live in the wettest region of the US and have yet to see a customer bring back a disc equipped bike with the explanation; 'meh, my old rim brakes worked just fine'.

It's not about detractors, etc., it's about 'are they worth it'? Wet, sloppy, touring, tandems, cross, commute in slop..yup, better than caliper but the argument for me is the marketing mantra that they are better in all places, on all bikes, all the time..along with fatter is better, tires that is. 'BETTER".

Heavier, less standards(mount type, axle type, rotor size type), more complicated, more expensive. If they work better for you..groovey. If ya gotta have them for your sunday coffee shop points, fine and dandy..even if the ride is your 30 miles, once a week, on flat, dry roads.

BUT please, mr spam, don't tell me I GOTTA have 'em or....'you think doping in racing is OK'..which is what scam said.

'k?

There is no doubt that the pressure for pro teams to switch to discs is coming from bike and component manufacturers, and it presents a whole raft of issues for teams, with dubious benefit in terms of racing.

But race bikes with discs really interest me. I like riding super light and stiff machines as fast as I can, and discs offer more powerful and controllable braking in situations that don't occur in races, such as encountering a massive pothole near a corner, having to stop at an unexpected junction on a descent and most common of all encountering an oncoming vehicle on a windy single-track road.

If disc brakes makes JRA in the real world safer I'm not sure that this aspect doesn't apply to racing. Say that pothole around a corner is a mass pile up; aren't you more likely to avoid it with 30% better stopping power than rim brakes? If disc allows you to brake later into tight corners, you're going to carry more speed on the exit. PT teams spend crazy money chasing much less margins.

AND that 'enthusiast'(not pro), who sees that pothole or mass pileup, grabs 2 hand fulls of disc brakes..what will happen? PT teams and riders is one thing but the average 'enthusiast'..with uber strong brakes? How big is the tire patch touching the ground on even 28 or 32mm tires? I built a tri bike for a wee girl, about a buck 10, who had latest gen Magura hydraulic rim brakes..they were awful to install, and they were SO strong, they were almost useless for her.

 

[kwikki]

What happens? They don't skid because the discs are predictable and controllable.

I ride discs and rim brakes day in day out. For my use, the discs win.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Re: Re:

AND that 'enthusiast'(not pro), who sees that pothole or mass pileup, grabs 2 hand fulls of disc brakes..what will happen? PT teams and riders is one thing but the average 'enthusiast'..with uber strong brakes? How big is the tire patch touching the ground on even 28 or 32mm tires? I built a tri bike for a wee girl, about a buck 10, who had latest gen Magura hydraulic rim brakes..they were awful to install, and they were SO strong, they were almost useless for her.

Ok, I built a cross bike for my lady friend with TRP Hylex brakes, same stature as your tri woman. I take her on mixed surface rides in the mountains in the rain on 27c Challenge Roubaix tires, rides all the gnarly stuff I do, and somehow manages to stay upright. How that be? You make it sound as tho it's 1998 all over again when the few holdouts of the V-brake were yelling, CONSPIRACY!! TOO MUCH POWER!!! DISC BRAKES WILL BE THE DEATH OF US ALL!!! I think your contact patch argument with smaller size road tires has had enough time to reveal itself, there's enough people out there doing it with no issues. I'm just not seeing it.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Re: Re:

The only mod needed for winter riding here in the UK is a set of mudguards [fenders]. Mechanical gears and calipers work just fine year round.

I have no similar recent experience. Over the last 20 years, modern brakes, pads and rims have served just fine in all seasons and conditions.

Confirmation bias. How does your own personal experience relate or equate to others? Curious if all detractors of disc brakes, never mind the pro peloton for a moment, have any real world experience at all with them. Or are these comments purely based on conjecture? I live in the wettest region of the US and have yet to see a customer bring back a disc equipped bike with the explanation; 'meh, my old rim brakes worked just fine'.

It's not about detractors, etc., it's about 'are they worth it'? Wet, sloppy, touring, tandems, cross, commute in slop..yup, better than caliper but the argument for me is the marketing mantra that they are better in all places, on all bikes, all the time..along with fatter is better, tires that is. 'BETTER".

Heavier, less standards(mount type, axle type, rotor size type), more complicated, more expensive. If they work better for you..groovey. If ya gotta have them for your sunday coffee shop points, fine and dandy..even if the ride is your 30 miles, once a week, on flat, dry roads.

BUT please, mr spam, don't tell me I GOTTA have 'em or....'you think doping in racing is OK'..which is what scam said.

'k?

At risk of repeating oneself means different things to different people. I'm not much of a Strava user, but looking back on my days in Colorado I still hold a bunch of top 10's and podium KOM's on tons of descents all over the dry and dusty Front Range. I'm not a climber, but I drop like a stone. These were all done on road disc. I never touched those spots doing it on my old rim brakes. Fatter is better apparently, Mr. Crampandgoslo. Did you not notice that the entire PT ditched 23c for 25c tires?

Regards,
Mr. Spam?

Spam=Sram...not anything to do wth you. And 2mm? wow..fatter tires indeed. I have been using 25mm tubulars for years. Once again, at risk of repeating myself, the INDUSTRY is all about disc brakes and the INDUSTRY(sram/scam/spam/slam) insists you can't ride a bike w/o discs..otherwise you are a untrained, uneducated, dope loving luddite...eh?

My daily driver is a 16 year old Surly Cross Check with Campy Olympus cantis. So I must be one of those UUDLL's. Bummer. :lol:

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

I have no similar recent experience. Over the last 20 years, modern brakes, pads and rims have served just fine in all seasons and conditions.

Confirmation bias. How does your own personal experience relate or equate to others? Curious if all detractors of disc brakes, never mind the pro peloton for a moment, have any real world experience at all with them. Or are these comments purely based on conjecture? I live in the wettest region of the US and have yet to see a customer bring back a disc equipped bike with the explanation; 'meh, my old rim brakes worked just fine'. [/quote]

It's not about detractors, etc., it's about 'are they worth it'? Wet, sloppy, touring, tandems, cross, commute in slop..yup, better than caliper but the argument for me is the marketing mantra that they are better in all places, on all bikes, all the time..along with fatter is better, tires that is. 'BETTER".

Heavier, less standards(mount type, axle type, rotor size type), more complicated, more expensive. If they work better for you..groovey. If ya gotta have them for your sunday coffee shop points, fine and dandy..even if the ride is your 30 miles, once a week, on flat, dry roads.

BUT please, mr spam, don't tell me I GOTTA have 'em or....'you think doping in racing is OK'..which is what scam said.

'k?[/quote]

At risk of repeating oneself means different things to different people. I'm not much of a Strava user, but looking back on my days in Colorado I still hold a bunch of top 10's and podium KOM's on tons of descents all over the dry and dusty Front Range. I'm not a climber, but I drop like a stone. These were all done on road disc. I never touched those spots doing it on my old rim brakes. Fatter is better apparently, Mr. Crampandgoslo. Did you not notice that the entire PT ditched 23c for 25c tires?

Regards,
Mr. Spam?[/quote]

Spam=Sram...not anything to do wth you. And 2mm? wow..fatter tires indeed. I have been using 25mm tubulars for years. Once again, at risk of repeating myself, the INDUSTRY is all about disc brakes and the INDUSTRY(sram/scam/spam/slam) insists you can't ride a bike w/o discs..otherwise you are a untrained, uneducated, dope loving luddite...eh?[/quote]

My daily driver is a 16 year old Surly Cross Check with Campy Olympus cantis. So I must be one of those UUDLL's. Bummer. :lol:[/quote]

So you haven't been brainwashed by the industry..good for you. :surprised:

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Re: Re:

So you haven't been brainwashed by the industry..good for you. :surprised:

Well, more than half my stable are disc brake. Have thousands of miles riding and racing on disc. Thousands of hours wrenching on disc. I know for a fact they work better than rim brakes, so apparently I am brainwashed.

Only commute on the Surly because I could care less if it gets stolen. Sometimes I even encourage it by not locking up.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

So you haven't been brainwashed by the industry..good for you. :surprised:

Well, more than half my stable are disc brake. Have thousands of miles riding and racing on disc. Thousands of hours wrenching on disc. I know for a fact they work better than rim brakes, so apparently I am brainwashed.

Only commute on the Surly because I could care less if it gets stolen. Sometimes I even encourage it by not locking up.

Good for you..I'll pass, thanks.

 

[winkybiker]

Re: Re:

So you haven't been brainwashed by the industry..good for you. :surprised:

Well, more than half my stable are disc brake. Have thousands of miles riding and racing on disc. Thousands of hours wrenching on disc. I know for a fact they work better than rim brakes, so apparently I am brainwashed.

Only commute on the Surly because I could care less if it gets stolen. Sometimes I even encourage it by not locking up.

Is it the case that you "could" care less (that is, you care more than zero, so less caring is possible), or is it that you "couldn't care less" (that is you don't care at all so there is no lesser amount of caring possible). The 'murkan way of using this phrase always confuses me. (It doesn't actually confuse me...I just think it's wrong. Like the way that they use month-day-year date formats)

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Re: Re:

So you haven't been brainwashed by the industry..good for you. :surprised:

Well, more than half my stable are disc brake. Have thousands of miles riding and racing on disc. Thousands of hours wrenching on disc. I know for a fact they work better than rim brakes, so apparently I am brainwashed.

Only commute on the Surly because I could care less if it gets stolen. Sometimes I even encourage it by not locking up.

Is it the case that you "could" care less (that is, you care more than zero, so less caring is possible), or is it that you "couldn't care less" (that is you don't care at all so there is no lesser amount of caring possible). The 'murkan way of using this phrase always confuses me. (It doesn't actually confuse me...I just think it's wrong. Like the way that they use month-day-year date formats)

You're absolutely right, it's 'couldn't care less'. You'll have to excuse me because English is my second language and I must have learned it in the wrong place, Murica.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

So you haven't been brainwashed by the industry..good for you. :surprised:

Well, more than half my stable are disc brake. Have thousands of miles riding and racing on disc. Thousands of hours wrenching on disc. I know for a fact they work better than rim brakes, so apparently I am brainwashed.

Only commute on the Surly because I could care less if it gets stolen. Sometimes I even encourage it by not locking up.

Good for you..I'll pass, thanks.

What's the matter, this isn't your usual lambasting response. Are you finally getting tired of trying to convince everybody that disc brakes on road bikes means the end of the world as we know it?

...well, it is the end of the world as we know it, you know, the one where at one point function usually trumped fashion, so what's your point ?....and btw BK is dead-nuts-on about that latest bit of bike porn/jewellery ....

Cheers

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

So you haven't been brainwashed by the industry..good for you. :surprised:

Well, more than half my stable are disc brake. Have thousands of miles riding and racing on disc. Thousands of hours wrenching on disc. I know for a fact they work better than rim brakes, so apparently I am brainwashed.

Only commute on the Surly because I could care less if it gets stolen. Sometimes I even encourage it by not locking up.

Good for you..I'll pass, thanks.

What's the matter, this isn't your usual lambasting response. Are you finally getting tired of trying to convince everybody that disc brakes on road bikes means the end of the world as we know it?

...well, it is the end of the world as we know it, you know, the one where at one point function usually trumped fashion, so what's your point ?....and btw BK is dead-nuts-on about that latest bit of bike porn/jewellery ....

Cheers[/quote]

I don't think in this entire thread you've managed to come up with your own points but basically repeat and backslap everything Bustedknuckle says. How original. Now you're going to tell me disc brakes are too heavy and powerful for road bikes for the thousandth time, right?[/quote]

Ya like them, groovy, they are 'better' in all conditions on all bikes, in spite of a few drawbacks, ya say. It's the industry I can't stand. Along with BB 'standards', seat masts, compact frames, fat rims and tires, tapered forks and my favorite, ceramic bearings. It really started with threadless. painted as 'performance' when it was a way for frame and fork makers(mostly RockShox)to save money. Now, ya just can't ride that thing on a bit of dirt road w/o disc brakes, 1by(spam again), tapered fork and some sort of thru axle..it's silly in a silly, flat bike market. When some maker's sales go up 1%, somebody elses goes down 1%..got have the latest and 'greatest' whizmangery on the 201x models.

Are they heavier? yes. Are they more complicated, more expensive and less intercompatible w/o some adjustment? yes. Are they coming, are here? yes but so what. I don't have to
-sell 'em
-work on 'em
-use 'em..and I'm glad.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Re: Re:

Ya like them, groovy, they are 'better' in all conditions on all bikes, in spite of a few drawbacks, ya say. It's the industry I can't stand. Along with BB 'standards', seat masts, compact frames, fat rims and tires, tapered forks and my favorite, ceramic bearings. It really started with threadless. painted as 'performance' when it was a way for frame and fork makers(mostly RockShox)to save money. Now, ya just can't ride that thing on a bit of dirt road w/o disc brakes, 1by(spam again), tapered fork and some sort of thru axle..it's silly in a silly, flat bike market. When some maker's sales go up 1%, somebody elses goes down 1%..got have the latest and 'greatest' whizmangery on the 201x models.

Are they heavier? yes. Are they more complicated, more expensive and less intercompatible w/o some adjustment? yes. Are they coming, are here? yes but so what. I don't have to
-sell 'em
-work on 'em
-use 'em..and I'm glad.

Man, after all this back and forth you're still hung up on weight. I fully understand your frustration with Scram and your aversion to the industry, some of which I agree with. Surprised you didn't bring up that silly 'contact patch' argument again, that always seemed to be a high priority on your schidt list. But weight? There are something like a half dozen or more disc road bikes that are near, or pegged right at the UCI weight limit, a couple below. But still, you're insisting a disc brake system is..."heavier". A full bidon weighs more than the difference between rim and disc brakes.

 

[kwikki]

Can anybody tell me a situation where rim brakes work better than hydro discs?

I've yet to find one.

Sure there are penalties such as weight difference, expense, slightly more involved mechanics but that is often the case with stuff that works better.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

Ya like them, groovy, they are 'better' in all conditions on all bikes, in spite of a few drawbacks, ya say. It's the industry I can't stand. Along with BB 'standards', seat masts, compact frames, fat rims and tires, tapered forks and my favorite, ceramic bearings. It really started with threadless. painted as 'performance' when it was a way for frame and fork makers(mostly RockShox)to save money. Now, ya just can't ride that thing on a bit of dirt road w/o disc brakes, 1by(spam again), tapered fork and some sort of thru axle..it's silly in a silly, flat bike market. When some maker's sales go up 1%, somebody elses goes down 1%..got have the latest and 'greatest' whizmangery on the 201x models.

Are they heavier? yes. Are they more complicated, more expensive and less intercompatible w/o some adjustment? yes. Are they coming, are here? yes but so what. I don't have to
-sell 'em
-work on 'em
-use 'em..and I'm glad.

Man, after all this back and forth you're still hung up on weight. I fully understand your frustration with Scram and your aversion to the industry, some of which I agree with. Surprised you didn't bring up that silly 'contact patch' argument again, that always seemed to be a high priority on your schidt list. But weight? There are something like a half dozen or more disc road bikes that are near, or pegged right at the UCI weight limit, a couple below. But still, you're insisting a disc brake system is..."heavier". A full bidon weighs more than the difference between rim and disc brakes.

Wasn't on my schidt list, but thanks for bringing it up...

Only 2 things you can measure in a bike shop. Weight and price. Go into any LBS, anywhere..a person looks at any bike..what's the first thing they do? Yup, pick it up..I know it means nothing but put 2 bikes next to each other, and the lighter one sells faster than the 'heavier' one. And that pretty new bike owner..he's pretty decent, at home wrench. The bike falls over w/o the front wheel after getting it home, compresses the brake lever..all the fluid weasels out.all over the pad, too...well, he'll just...no, he'll go back to the bike shop for a bleed and new pads.

Ya like 'em, groovy, they have their place, yup..BUT not on my bike, but on the bikes the industry is now pushing...we'll see who comes out the other end. I predict a few years of this stuff, and somebody will come out with a 'retro' bike, with calipers...

Just a data point, from this-http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/article/which-bike-for-the-mavic-haute-route-rockies-47735/

"The following four days delivered more of the same: delicious high-mountain scenery, heaps of endorphin-boosting climbing and adrenalin-fueled descending, and ample servings of quiet dirt roads. I used the Trek for the two days with pitches over 20%, and the Giant for the rest.

While the hydraulic braking was nice, the bigger benefit to the disc bike was the possibility of running huge clinchers (it comes with 30mm Bontragers) and the ample clearance for mud, should the skies open like they did on stage 6 while on 18mi of dirt.

Could I do it all again but only take one bike, I’d bring the Giant, with a few modifications. While the Domane SLR is a fantastic bike — I wrote this gushy piece a few months ago, and stand by it — there is no getting around physics. Using one of AnalyticCycling’s cool calculators, I estimated that the Trek’s additional 5lbs / 2.27kg over the Giant would add 18 minutes to my time over the week.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Re: Re:

Ya like them, groovy, they are 'better' in all conditions on all bikes, in spite of a few drawbacks, ya say. It's the industry I can't stand. Along with BB 'standards', seat masts, compact frames, fat rims and tires, tapered forks and my favorite, ceramic bearings. It really started with threadless. painted as 'performance' when it was a way for frame and fork makers(mostly RockShox)to save money. Now, ya just can't ride that thing on a bit of dirt road w/o disc brakes, 1by(spam again), tapered fork and some sort of thru axle..it's silly in a silly, flat bike market. When some maker's sales go up 1%, somebody elses goes down 1%..got have the latest and 'greatest' whizmangery on the 201x models.

Are they heavier? yes. Are they more complicated, more expensive and less intercompatible w/o some adjustment? yes. Are they coming, are here? yes but so what. I don't have to
-sell 'em
-work on 'em
-use 'em..and I'm glad.

Man, after all this back and forth you're still hung up on weight. I fully understand your frustration with Scram and your aversion to the industry, some of which I agree with. Surprised you didn't bring up that silly 'contact patch' argument again, that always seemed to be a high priority on your schidt list. But weight? There are something like a half dozen or more disc road bikes that are near, or pegged right at the UCI weight limit, a couple below. But still, you're insisting a disc brake system is..."heavier". A full bidon weighs more than the difference between rim and disc brakes.

Wasn't on my schidt list, but thanks for bringing it up...

Only 2 things you can measure in a bike shop. Weight and price. Go into any LBS, anywhere..a person looks at any bike..what's the first thing they do? Yup, pick it up..I know it means nothing but put 2 bikes next to each other, and the lighter one sells faster than the 'heavier' one. And that pretty new bike owner..he's pretty decent, at home wrench. The bike falls over w/o the front wheel after getting it home, compresses the brake lever..all the fluid weasels out.all over the pad, too...well, he'll just...no, he'll go back to the bike shop for a bleed and new pads.

Ya like 'em, groovy, they have their place, yup..BUT not on my bike, but on the bikes the industry is now pushing...we'll see who comes out the other end. I predict a few years of this stuff, and somebody will come out with a 'retro' bike, with calipers...

Just a data point, from this-http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/article/which-bike-for-the-mavic-haute-route-rockies-47735/

"The following four days delivered more of the same: delicious high-mountain scenery, heaps of endorphin-boosting climbing and adrenalin-fueled descending, and ample servings of quiet dirt roads. I used the Trek for the two days with pitches over 20%, and the Giant for the rest.

While the hydraulic braking was nice, the bigger benefit to the disc bike was the possibility of running huge clinchers (it comes with 30mm Bontragers) and the ample clearance for mud, should the skies open like they did on stage 6 while on 18mi of dirt.

Could I do it all again but only take one bike, I’d bring the Giant, with a few modifications. While the Domane SLR is a fantastic bike — I wrote this gushy piece a few months ago, and stand by it — there is no getting around physics. Using one of AnalyticCycling’s cool calculators, I estimated that the Trek’s additional 5lbs / 2.27kg over the Giant would add 18 minutes to my time over the week.

If a customer isn't well informed by their LBS then of course weight and price is the only ammunition they have with the purchase. What about fit, riding style, regular terrain, race or not? This year hasn't been exactly kind to the uber lightweight road race machines anyway, people are gravitating towards bikes that are more versatile, utilitarian, and capable off pavement. Touring and adventure bikes is really the only segment of the industry that has seen much growth in this flat sales year, the majority of which are disc equipped.

Nice article by Delaney, and it's not like he had anything negative say about the Trek. On the other hand anytime you mention a disc brake it usually ends with catastrophe. Pretty clear that he's comparing apples to oranges with the bike choice, endurance vs race, but that was the premise of the review. Wonder what conclusions he would have come up with race vs race and the weight spread been grams, or even 1lbs instead of 5lbs. Like the disc version of that TCR, or a Focus Izalco Max, each pegged right at the UCI weight limit. I've tested both, the Giant with eTap and the Focus with Di2. Had more time on the Focus and it's probably the best road bike I've ridden in the last decade or more, regardless of brake type.

Re: "Retro". Did you happen to catch Pozzato at the TDF signing in on a copper color Wilier Superleggera? Such a beauty! How about the most successful lugged steel frame still in production, Colnago Master. Now if only Campagnolo would produce a modern-"retro" SR gouppo, that would be something. Should we get a petition going?

 

[Tim B]

I've been riding disc brakes on my new bike for a few months now and do like them - I love to decend and have never felt like I need better brakes on my good road bike, but just lately I have jumped back on my DuraAce rim brake bike and wow, feel like I don't have any brakes at times, have come into corners way too hot with the bike just not slowing down, have to completey recalibrate my braking points again. It's not that they don't work, they just take more distance to slow down than what I had gotten used to on the discs.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Re: "Retro". Did you happen to catch Pozzato at the TDF signing in on a copper color Wilier Superleggera? Such a beauty! How about the most successful lugged steel frame still in production, Colnago Master. Now if only Campagnolo would produce a modern-"retro" SR gouppo, that would be something. Should we get a petition going?

Yes! I'll gladly sign that.

Also, were there any photos of Pozzato? The thought of that Superleggera has me drooling

 

[King Boonen]

I didn't see any photos but here's the bike:

That's my kind of bike. Speaking of which, Colnago have started doing the Arabesque again!!

http://www.colnago.com/arabesque/

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Pozzato checking in stage 2 on the Superleggera

King Boonen, those Colnago Arabesque are super limited edition. Only going to last as long as the box of lugs they found collecting dust in Ernesto's basement. Maybe 600 units.

 

[King Boonen]

Massively out of my price range too

 

[King Boonen]

I'm putting together a hideous monstrosity that will no doubt get me kicked out of this forum forever. Build essentials:

Steel hardtail frame
rigid steel fork
Avid BB7 cable discs
drop bars and Tektro levers
friction bar end shifter (rear only...)
46T up front with 11-32T at the back (shifter I got for free only has 8-9 speed range with MTB RD)
26" wheels with a variety of tyres to tackle all terrains