discussion!!! contador

[Ramira]

You use the word "fanboys" as if you're not one.

Nope I'd gladly admit I'm a Schleck brothers fanboy. But yes maybe I should not have used that word because I actually had it myself. I guess what I meant and should have said is:

While what Contador has shown over the last years is incredibly impressive and there's no doubt he's both the best and most successful of the currently active Grand Tour riders I believe that his feats and ability has been greatly overestimated by some of his supporters on this forum. While I think he's the best right now I just don't think he is "that" much better then Andy Schleck (and the "fanboy" in me thinks he's not better at all but I will have to wait till next years tour to truly know that for certain)

 

[shadowblue]

[...]
Samu's performance is even more exceptional when one remembers that he crashed hard on a descent earlier in the stage on a slick roundabout, hard enough that he got up, and then lied back down in an almost fetal position.

samu didn't crash. that was urtasun.

 

[BYOP88]

True you're right that part was my personal interpretation of the way Andy seems to ride his TT's. But take out that one sentence and my argument still stands and so does the data I used to support it.

Hey it's ok not trying to pick a fight or anything after all this is only the interwebz. You support Schleck so you're going to make the best case for him, if I was a fan of him I'd be doing the same too.

 

[Angliru]

Ok i'll admit I'm wrong, I guess I got swept away in my reaction going into "annoyed at internet posters" a bit to soon and I apologize for that. I wanted to start a discussion about how big the gap between Contador and Andy truly is (and yes while I believe Andy is very close to him I'll gladly admit until Andy beats him in a direct duel he will have the upper hand. Although I do believe if Andy wins this year he and Contador should be seen as about equals next year, with a small edge to Contador). And in my dissapointment with your response I both made the mistake misattributing a quote to you and of taking a post made in yest personal (I took the grin as something you clearly did not mean it to be).

Once again I apologize for snapping like that, and I guess next year we'll see who is right. While I do not claim to know for certain Andy will win it I do think he will seriously take the fight to Contador and it will be very exciting, I just hope the parcours will allow a true duel.

We're good. You, Jobiwan and the other guy (DWLsonic or something like that) are brave souls. Andy will need all the support he can get when he's crying in Frank's arms after another disappointment. Be sure to send him much love. Contador will pat his cheek (not that one!) to show him the love is still there because that's the kind of guy that he is. Bang Bang!!

 

[Ramira]

Hey it's ok not trying to pick a fight or anything after all this is only the interwebz. You support Schleck so you're going to make the best case for him, if I was a fan of him I'd be doing the same too.

Huh? I thought the intrawebs was only about picking fights. Anyway as I stated before I got carried away a bit and I apologize for that.

I guess I can get annoyed a bit to easily by the whole Contador hyping, yes he's the best but he's not superman, which is what I was trying to say, and it can just frustrate me when any discussion ends up in "yeah but in the end Contador will win easily because he's Contador".

 

[shadowblue]

I doubt he had much of a choice. Do you think they're paying him those millions to just ride in the Giro? The Giro was ridden because there was doubt as to his being cleared to ride the Tour. They (the sponsors) had to get something large out of their cash cow and they did with his Giro win. When the Tour cleared him to ride there was no doubt that he would be taking part even with his own stated reservations about his form leading up to the Tour's start.

contador agreed to ride the 2011 giro before the 2010 tdf was finished.

 

[Angliru]

samu didn't crash. that was urtasun.

See what happens when you go on Liggett and Sherwin's commentary? You lose all credibility!

 

[Ramira]

We're good. You, Jobiwan and the other guy (DWLsonic or something like that) are brave souls. Andy will need all the support he can get when he's crying in Frank's arms after another disappointment. Be sure to send him much love. Contador will pat his cheek (not that one!) to show him the love is still there because that's the kind of guy that he is. Bang Bang!!

Glad we're good I'd hate to get into a fight over a silly mistake on my part.

I guess someone has to fight the good (or bad depending on the beholder) fight even if it's not an easy one (although the fanclub is growing fast!).

I'm sure Andy will be just fine if they end up losing, the Leopard boys seem to be a tight bunch, whether they'll win or lose they'll be just fine together. Then again I think they'll end up celebrating because Contador is firing blanks this tour so his bang bang will end up being more of a thud thud .

 

[BYOP88]

Huh? I thought the intrawebs was only about picking fights. Anyway as I stated before I got carried away a bit and I apologize for that.

I guess I can get annoyed a bit to easily by the whole Contador hyping, yes he's the best but he's not superman, which is what I was trying to say, and it can just frustrate me when any discussion ends up in "yeah but in the end Contador will win easily because he's Contador".

Dammit!!!!!! You mean I've been using the interwebz wrong all this time

Well that's the hype thing isn't it, if it wasn't Contador it would be someone else I guess. Contador and A.Schleck are good riders but only time will tell if they are great riders.

 

[Ramira]

Dammit!!!!!! You mean I've been using the interwebz wrong all this time

Fo sho! The interwebz without picking fights is like cycling without wheels!

Well that's the hype thing isn't it, if it wasn't Contador it would be someone else I guess. Contador and A.Schleck are good riders but only time will tell if they are great riders.

Well here I'm going to have to disagree with you. While I disagree with the hype on Contador I think his 6 straight GT's is enough to say he's a great rider, just not one of the greatest ever yet. Andy on the other hand is just an incredibly talented guy at the moment, with the potential to become great or the potential to fade away into history, I'm just hoping it will be the former.

 

[Ramira]

See what happens when you go on Liggett and Sherwin's commentary? You lose all credibility!

Hehe I can imagine, then again I just got my hands on the second part of the stage to Luz Ardiden and while the commentary might be worthless the graphics are pretty nice, visually Versus is quite good, to bad the audio is like listening to kittens getting tortured.

 

[Angliru]

contador agreed to ride the 2011 giro before the 2010 tdf was finished.

I wish you'd find something else to do other than making me look bad!
Is there a link for that? It seems odd to commit to it unless he knew what the route would be. I doubt they could hold him to it considering all the time riders have backed out of events for whatever reason.

 

[airstream]

Angliru, you don't like cycling obv, you adore urself in your sympathy to contador. That's so unsportsmanlike.
Contador will win TdF for sure though.

 

[Ramira]

Is there a link for that? It seems odd to commit to it unless he knew what the route would be. I doubt they could hold him to it considering all the time riders have backed out of events for whatever reason.

While I can't find a link I do seem to recall he said he wanted to ride the 2011 Giro during the 2010 tour, that being said he could easily have backed out if he wanted to I reckon.

I think even without pressure from Saxo he would have wanted to ride the Giro-Tour double, but I think he might have backed out if he didn't feel up for it if there was no sponsor pressure whatsoever (though I think pre-crash he felt good enough form-wise to believe he had a chance to win it, whether he was right or not I guess we'll never know unless he comes back and wins it).

 

[No_Balls]

No my opinion =/ fact. Prior performances do. Nothing in Contador's prior performances indicates he can destroy the Schlecks something I supported by quite a lot of data, but I guess when data doesn't support ones point of view it is turned into opinion. I'm thinking it's time for me to leave this thread because I have no interest in having a discussion with people who's response to my data is not to show their own data to prove me wrong but to attack me personally.

If you show me some data that show that Contador has ever taken more then 1-2 minutes on Schleck in the mountains or more then 2 minutes in a TT and I will gladly concede that he can destroy Andy. However based on the last 2 times both he and Andy rode the TDF and the amount of time he took on his contenders in the other GT's there is and has never been any indication he can do anything but beat Andy by going to his very limit. Which is very impressive indeed but very different from what many of the Contador fanboys claim he can do.

Then again I've a gone bit into some of your previous posts and you seem to hate Andy more than the devil himself so I guess none of this should have come as a surprise to me.

The only "data" you should know:

Andy=0 Gt
AC= 6 GT

 

[No_Balls]

** edited by mod ***

 

[M Sport]

If you show me some data that show that Contador has ever taken more then 1-2 minutes on Schleck in the mountains or more then 2 minutes in a TT and I will gladly concede that he can destroy Andy. However based on the last 2 times both he and Andy rode the TDF and the amount of time he took on his contenders in the other GT's there is and has never been any indication he can do anything but beat Andy by going to his very limit. Which is very impressive indeed but very different from what many of the Contador fanboys claim he can do.

I don't think Contador would ever have taken nearly two minutes on a climb that Andy didn't have a problem on, that is simply an unrealistic expectation for people to think the best climber in the world to beat arguably the second best by. He has (Contador) smashed the next best climbers including Andy on more than one occasion though. Verbier and Arcalis are two examples that spring to mind, 50 seconds on a short climb is a lifetime to beat your opponent by

In the TT's it's not even a contest, in that same year I know he beat Andy by nearly two minutes.

I think my comments before each of the last four GT's that Contador has entered were along the lines of 'he would have to fall off to lose' nothing else would stop him. Turns out I was slightly wrong, he had to fall off three times to lose.

I don't think he will win now, I hope he does but the cold hard facts are pointing to Andy or Frank. So be it, good luck to them.

 

[warmfuzzies]

The only "data" you should know:

Andy=0 Gt
AC= 6 GT

No, the passage of another year, the exclusion of Spanish steak from AC's diet, the two falls, and the Giro participation are NOT worth considering.

 

[Apollonius]

All I've seen in this thread is a lot of Contador glory hunters panicking that he's not going to bring them any glory this time.
Don't worry boys, you've still got the Giro result and that's a much better race that Le Tour

 

[GJB123]

Most telling for me was that after Luz Ardiden Andy declared they now knew Contador was not unbeatable. That clearly shows the reputation Contador has even with his closest rival.

 

[webvan]

A bit like Armstrong in 2003...we'll soon know for sure.

 

[Thomsena]

Had no problems today. Looks better and better. Might need a few days more to be fully fit?..

 

[Captain_Obvious]

Bertie did good today. He looked much better dancing on the pedals. Hope he recovers well in the following days and is able to do one big attack in the alps.

 

[webvan]

Yes a bit better, won't win the tour like that though.

 

[El Pistolero]

I expect something from Contador on Galibier now.