Doping In Athletics

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Re: Re:

del1962 said:
Nellyspania said:
SeriousSam said:
Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.
While Radcliffe is obviously highly suspicious due to her blood vales, you have to understand the difference between 400m and Marathon

A 400m will run quite a lot of 400m and close to their potential best 400m as they can run quite a number over a season, however a top class marathon runner might run one or two a year and the conditions or the fact that it is a championship will effect the time, so even if a runner has a period of 5 years at their best there is a good chance they won't run their optimal time.

So comparing sprints to a distance like the marathon is not really a good comparison
All good & well but back in the 80s the Soviet countries didn't compete in non-championship events. They had no need as they didn't earn money and were paid by the state. Koch was running a minimal amount of 400m per year other than in events in East Germany which were not recognized by the IAAF.

In saying that they did persuade East Germany to run in a World Cup event in Canberra Australia where she set the world record.

So please get your facts straight. It's embarrassing.
 
lol and that logic doesn't apply to Paula?

How can you know Paula run here optimal time herself. If all those other athletes never run their optimal times because they didn't do that many marathons every year, maybe Paula who also didn't do that many marathons every year. also has an optimal ability even higher than the one she put out?

Its just the usual "oh but maybe the foreign athletes never were able to actually reach their potential but the British athlete was" argument from posters who don't hesitate to condemn someone based on next to nothing when the athlete represents any other country but suddenly become human rights lawyers the second the conversation shifts to a British athlete.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Re: Re:

Let's compare marathon to marathon then. I put together some quick charts that illustrate how extraordinary Paula was.

Men:

Women, excluding Paula:

Women, with Paula:


NB: Paula's data points in red!
 
Sep 8, 2015
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Seen visually like that, makes me ask: what would a similar map of all the other T&F records look like; are there any other similar ludicrous outliers? And what about track cycling records? Also swimming would be interesting....

PS I thank you for, and I'm sure everyone on here will appreciate you for, taking the time to create those, as seeing it distils a hard to explain concept into something very intuitive!
 
Sep 14, 2011
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Re: Re:

thehog said:
del1962 said:
Nellyspania said:
SeriousSam said:
Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.
While Radcliffe is obviously highly suspicious due to her blood vales, you have to understand the difference between 400m and Marathon

A 400m will run quite a lot of 400m and close to their potential best 400m as they can run quite a number over a season, however a top class marathon runner might run one or two a year and the conditions or the fact that it is a championship will effect the time, so even if a runner has a period of 5 years at their best there is a good chance they won't run their optimal time.

So comparing sprints to a distance like the marathon is not really a good comparison
All good & well but back in the 80s the Soviet countries didn't compete in non-championship events. They had no need as they didn't earn money and were paid by the state. Koch was running a minimal amount of 400m per year other than in events in East Germany which were not recognized by the IAAF.

In saying that they did persuade East Germany to run in a World Cup event in Canberra Australia where she set the world record.

So please get your facts straight. It's embarrassing.
The fact that Koch ran less races makes her world record more suspicious using Del's logic so maybe you should be the one to get your facts straight?
 
Re: Re:

Bernie's eyesore said:
thehog said:
del1962 said:
Nellyspania said:
SeriousSam said:
Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.
While Radcliffe is obviously highly suspicious due to her blood vales, you have to understand the difference between 400m and Marathon

A 400m will run quite a lot of 400m and close to their potential best 400m as they can run quite a number over a season, however a top class marathon runner might run one or two a year and the conditions or the fact that it is a championship will effect the time, so even if a runner has a period of 5 years at their best there is a good chance they won't run their optimal time.

So comparing sprints to a distance like the marathon is not really a good comparison
All good & well but back in the 80s the Soviet countries didn't compete in non-championship events. They had no need as they didn't earn money and were paid by the state. Koch was running a minimal amount of 400m per year other than in events in East Germany which were not recognized by the IAAF.

In saying that they did persuade East Germany to run in a World Cup event in Canberra Australia where she set the world record.

So please get your facts straight. It's embarrassing.
The fact that Koch ran less races makes her world record more suspicious using Del's logic so maybe you should be the one to get your facts straight?
I would put Radcliffe in the group with Kratochvilova such was the sudden leap in performances and times.

Radcliffe is absurdly suspicious to the point of down right laughable. Only made worse by her supposed anti-doping stance throughout her career. She is the Lance Armstrong of athletics.

If only there was a anti-doping journalist willing to stop at nothing to uncover Radcliffes doping :rolleyes:

Kratochvilova never failed a drugs test but her build, and her sudden progress late in her track and field life (she didn't break 53sec for 400m until the age of 27 and was 32 when she broke the 800m record)
 
Dec 11, 2013
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Re: Re:

SeriousSam said:
Let's compare marathon to marathon then. I put together some quick charts that illustrate how extraordinary Paula was.

Men:

Women, excluding Paula:

Women, with Paula:


NB: Paula's data points in red!
How many of those 3 red times (and the other 17 for that matter) were achieved using male pace runners and how significant do you think that was?
 
Interesting interview with Koch (autocorrect) from 2011, she raises some interesting points :p

Montsho won in a time of 49.56 seconds, almost two seconds slower than the spectacular 47.60 seconds Koch set in Canberra, Australia more than two-and-a-half decades ago.

The 1980 Olympic champion from what was then East Germany (GDR) had missed the 1984 Olympics because of her country's boycott but made up for that disappointment with one of sport's most spectacular records.

"In the 100 metres there have also been many victories with times that have been far less spectacular," the 54-year-old added.

"At big events, times are not as important as winning. I myself have won major races with times above 48 or 49 seconds," she said.
http://protrack.easyforumlive.com/t1110-400m-wr-holder-47-60-marita-koch-gives-a-rare-interview
 
Interesting Juliet Macur article about organizer's keeping Russian runners out of tomorrow's NY City Marathon.

It seems the race organizers get to call the shots about past or suspected dopers even if the IAAF hasn't acted. How different from cycling--maybe because there are no trade teams in the same fashion as in pro cycling? Also seems to be a powerful anti-eastern European bias at work.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/sports/new-york-city-marathon-road-runners-russia-doping.html?ref=sports&_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/sports/new-york-city-marathon-road-runners-russia-doping.html?smid=nytcore-ipad-share&smprod=nytcore-ipad
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Paris- French authorities have charged former IAAF president Lamine Diack with corruption linked to covering up doping cases, a legal source said on Wednesday.

The 82-year-old Senegalese, who gave up as International Association of Athletics Federation (IAAF) president in August, was charged in Paris on Monday, the source said.

His advisor, Habib Cisse, a lawyer, was also charged. A doctor linked with the federation's anti-doping measures was being questioned in custody, the source said.
http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/Athletics/International/Ex-IAAF-chief-Lamine-Diack-arrested-20151104
 

Irondan

Administrator
Moderator
gooner said:
Paris- French authorities have charged former IAAF president Lamine Diack with corruption linked to covering up doping cases, a legal source said on Wednesday.

The 82-year-old Senegalese, who gave up as International Association of Athletics Federation (IAAF) president in August, was charged in Paris on Monday, the source said.

His advisor, Habib Cisse, a lawyer, was also charged. A doctor linked with the federation's anti-doping measures was being questioned in custody, the source said.
http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/Athletics/International/Ex-IAAF-chief-Lamine-Diack-arrested-20151104
It's about time...
 
May 26, 2010
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irondan said:
gooner said:
Paris- French authorities have charged former IAAF president Lamine Diack with corruption linked to covering up doping cases, a legal source said on Wednesday.

The 82-year-old Senegalese, who gave up as International Association of Athletics Federation (IAAF) president in August, was charged in Paris on Monday, the source said.

His advisor, Habib Cisse, a lawyer, was also charged. A doctor linked with the federation's anti-doping measures was being questioned in custody, the source said.
http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/Athletics/International/Ex-IAAF-chief-Lamine-Diack-arrested-20151104
It's about time...
Is the IAAF any different from any other sport? I doubt it. I bet Hein/McQuaid 'assisted' a lot of 'unfortunate' athletes over their tenure.
 
Sep 8, 2015
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Benotti69 said:
Is the IAAF any different from any other sport? I doubt it. I bet Hein/McQuaid 'assisted' a lot of 'unfortunate' athletes over their tenure.
Given the current mess at FIFA, it makes you wonder about them too. Everyone in the big 5 European leagues plays pressing now, and the players run and run and never get tired!
 
Apr 23, 2015
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gooner said:
Paris- French authorities have charged former IAAF president Lamine Diack with corruption linked to covering up doping cases, a legal source said on Wednesday.

The 82-year-old Senegalese, who gave up as International Association of Athletics Federation (IAAF) president in August, was charged in Paris on Monday, the source said.

His advisor, Habib Cisse, a lawyer, was also charged. A doctor linked with the federation's anti-doping measures was being questioned in custody, the source said.
http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/Athletics/International/Ex-IAAF-chief-Lamine-Diack-arrested-20151104
And there's old Seb Coe on his first day at work saying suspicions of IAAF collusion were completely wrong http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33985484
I hope he's on ITV news sitting next to Paula for his next interview
 
Jul 21, 2012
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gooner said:
Paris- French authorities have charged former IAAF president Lamine Diack with corruption linked to covering up doping cases, a legal source said on Wednesday.

The 82-year-old Senegalese, who gave up as International Association of Athletics Federation (IAAF) president in August, was charged in Paris on Monday, the source said.

His advisor, Habib Cisse, a lawyer, was also charged. A doctor linked with the federation's anti-doping measures was being questioned in custody, the source said.
http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/Athletics/International/Ex-IAAF-chief-Lamine-Diack-arrested-20151104
Good thing Baron Coe is going to clean up this mess, just like Cookson did with cycling.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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the sceptic said:
Good thing Baron Coe is going to clean up this mess, just like Cookson did with cycling.
Although to be fair, Coe, unlike Cookson, did not run on an anti-corruption platform. Coe actually something more like a pro-corruption platform to save "his" sport from pseudo-scientists like Parisotto and Ashendon, scurrilous accusations from the media, blame cast on obvious innocents like Radcliffe etc.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

thehog said:
Cake said:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/05/gabriel-dolle-iaaf-criminal-investigation

the plot thickens
Lucky its only occurring in Russia :rolleyes:
I wonder are those who beat Russians into silver in medals currently preparing statements with their lawyers!
 

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