Doping In Athletics

[wansteadimp]

Re: Re:

Didnt know where to put this, but thought this was a decent read;

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/12/not-just-russia-britain-corruption-allegations-athletics-sport?CMP=share_btn_tw

Thanks Martin. That is a good article.

I thought the guardian was meant to be progressive though. So much blind dumb nationalism in the comments section. Even looks like Vickers might have taken his accounts there.

Great Britain is probably the least corrupt least cheaty nation is sport there is. To the point that we could be described as pretty naive. There are countries which can't afford the medical specialists to do it very well. We can, but we don't. There are countries where the expectations of success are low enough so they don't feel the pressure to cheat. We have high expectations and yet, in general, as a nation we don't. And there are nations where cheating "legardemain" is culturally more acceptable than the UK. Being caught here is to be shamed.

A lot of less progressive people arrived after some of the right wing papers disappeared behind a pay wall. Also, if you want an argument and the progressives won't come to your paper go to theirs.

 

[Cake]

Re: Re:

A lot of less progressive people arrived after some of the right wing papers disappeared behind a pay wall. Also, if you want an argument and the progressives won't come to your paper go to theirs.

Where is it written that people of all political views can't post on any given newspaper's website? As for the idea that they all decamped when "the right wing newspapers" went paywall, the Telegraph's paywall, for example, is laughably permeable. Perhaps the posters on the Graun website accurately reflect the readership and people aren't as liberal as you think they are?

 

[Benotti69]

what's the old saying about those who buy the Guardian, 'they talk left but vote right!'

 

[wansteadimp]

Re: Re:

A lot of less progressive people arrived after some of the right wing papers disappeared behind a pay wall. Also, if you want an argument and the progressives won't come to your paper go to theirs.

Where is it written that people of all political views can't post on any given newspaper's website? As for the idea that they all decamped when "the right wing newspapers" went paywall, the Telegraph's paywall, for example, is laughably permeable. Perhaps the posters on the Graun website accurately reflect the readership and people aren't as liberal as you think they are?

Where did I say anyone was prevented from writing on any website?

My views on the change in dynamic of the users of the Guardian's website are through my use of the comments section of the website.

I grew up in rural Lincolnshire and have lived in East London since then, I'm under no illusion that people are liberal, quite the opposite I'm surprised when I come across one.

 

[tantocomo]

I took this to mean in all sports, but this is the best place to post it since it's from the comments on a Seb Coe article on the Guardian website:

Lord_James_of_Luton 24h ago
Athletics is becoming farcical as we reach the limit in many events of what is humanly possible.

macaronic Lord_James_of_Luton 24h ago
Contemporary high-performance athletics now borders on the very limit of human physical capabilities, having evolved to an extent where it no long longer resembles sport in the old-fashioned competition sense, but more a scientific experiment on how far the body can go. The margins of a win or of breaking a record have become so miniscule that it is difficult to speak of a "victory over an adversary" but more of an incremental increase in the human body's physical resistance to strain.

Drugs (permissible or otherwise) are often seen an indispensable means to accept this strain during training or athletic competition, or to let the body wind down from th exertion in physical comfort. In the past, where the sport could be described as a surrogate war between nations, some sport observers now describe high-performance athletics as a "proxy chemical war".

 

[blackcat]

I took this to mean in all sports, but this is the best place to post it since it's from the comments on a Seb Coe article on the Guardian website:

Lord_James_of_Luton 24h ago
Athletics is becoming farcical as we reach the limit in many events of what is humanly possible.

macaronic Lord_James_of_Luton 24h ago
Contemporary high-performance athletics now borders on the very limit of human physical capabilities, having evolved to an extent where it no long longer resembles sport in the old-fashioned competition sense, but more a scientific experiment on how far the body can go. The margins of a win or of breaking a record have become so miniscule that it is difficult to speak of a "victory over an adversary" but more of an incremental increase in the human body's physical resistance to strain.

Drugs (permissible or otherwise) are often seen an indispensable means to accept this strain during training or athletic competition, or to let the body wind down from th exertion in physical comfort. In the past, where the sport could be described as a surrogate war between nations, some sport observers now describe high-performance athletics as a "proxy chemical war".

thanks TantoComo

this is the type of comments that THASP Tennis Has A Steroid Problem and aconyms
usually had, albeit, this is just from a punter, not someone of note

 

[The Carrot]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/11996319/The-person-who-pays-for-everything-is-the-athlete.html

Another athlete 'picking up the tab'.

Couldn't help but think of this piece again:

http://sabotagetimes.com/football/team-gb-are-the-new-east-germany

 

[armchairclimber]

Not seen the Sab Times piece before... dead good.

 

[The Hitch]

I took this to mean in all sports, but this is the best place to post it since it's from the comments on a Seb Coe article on the Guardian website:

Lord_James_of_Luton 24h ago
Athletics is becoming farcical as we reach the limit in many events of what is humanly possible.

macaronic Lord_James_of_Luton 24h ago
Contemporary high-performance athletics now borders on the very limit of human physical capabilities, having evolved to an extent where it no long longer resembles sport in the old-fashioned competition sense, but more a scientific experiment on how far the body can go. The margins of a win or of breaking a record have become so miniscule that it is difficult to speak of a "victory over an adversary" but more of an incremental increase in the human body's physical resistance to strain.

Drugs (permissible or otherwise) are often seen an indispensable means to accept this strain during training or athletic competition, or to let the body wind down from th exertion in physical comfort. In the past, where the sport could be described as a surrogate war between nations, some sport observers now describe high-performance athletics as a "proxy chemical war".

Very well written that.

 

[armchairclimber]

An excellent Q&A: Renee Anne Shirley with Ross Tucker http://sportsscientists.com/2015/11/interview-with-renee-anne-shirley/

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Whenever RAS speaks, I stop and listen. I wish more had happened in the JADCO case she uncovered, but she is the one the one administrator in sport I trust the most. I just wish her twitter feed had a few less retweets. I can't follow her, it's too much...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

Whenever RAS speaks, I stop and listen. I wish more had happened in the JADCO case she uncovered, but she is the one the one administrator in sport I trust the most. I just wish her twitter feed had a few less retweets. I can't follow her, it's too much...

Being able to ignore retweets and Facebook shares would make social media life much more pleasant

 

[Cake]

That Renae Anne Shirley interview deserves more attention in the mainstream media. Particularly her comments about the "threads in the spider's web", linking corrupt athletes & coaches, to corrupt administrators.

 

[The Carrot]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3322426/Police-body-missing-former-Olympic-sprinter-Yulia-Balykina-wrapped-cellophane-hidden-forest-Belarus.html

Not good

 

[5h1teHawk]

Sonia O'Sullivan on doping & losing emotional attachment to women's athletics:
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/sonia-o-sullivan-many-countries-have-sub-standard-drug-testing-1.2435084

 

[del1962]

Re:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3322426/Police-body-missing-former-Olympic-sprinter-Yulia-Balykina-wrapped-cellophane-hidden-forest-Belarus.html

Not good

Yep not good at all.

 

[Benotti69]

Sonia O'Sullivan...doper?

So I never said anything or questioned anyone because I felt this would only take energy away from me. And I knew I was doing the right thing. Some athletes were getting away with doing the wrong thing, over and over again, so that they believed that is what it took to be the best.

When she spouts crap like that. Definitely!

 

[armchairclimber]

Another sanction http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34873287

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Sonia O'Sullivan...doper?

So I never said anything or questioned anyone because I felt this would only take energy away from me. And I knew I was doing the right thing. Some athletes were getting away with doing the wrong thing, over and over again, so that they believed that is what it took to be the best.

When she spouts crap like that. Definitely!

for Australians, Sonia is married to the Australian journo and owner of Melbourne Track Club, think it was quasi based on a Santa Monica TRack Club, and basically underwritten by rent-seeking from Gov't, Australian Atheltics, Australian Sports Commission, Nike etc...

and if you google the comments Nic Bideu or Bideau made on Collingwood's preseason training at altitude in the last decade over in Arizona, he also managed and was the partner of Cathy Freeman for about 5 years, and when she "won 2000 Olympics..." yeah right... and he managed Craig Mottram and the other female sprinter Lauren Hewitt.

anyway.... Nic knows how the game is played. I think Sonia raced in Australian colours for the last decade of her career, I think she won a gold medal in the 10k at the MCG in the 2006 Commonwealth Games...

 

[beatthatrat]

Re: Re:

Sonia O'Sullivan...doper?

So I never said anything or questioned anyone because I felt this would only take energy away from me. And I knew I was doing the right thing. Some athletes were getting away with doing the wrong thing, over and over again, so that they believed that is what it took to be the best.

When she spouts crap like that. Definitely!

for Australians, Sonia is married to the Australian journo and owner of Melbourne Track Club, think it was quasi based on a Santa Monica TRack Club, and basically underwritten by rent-seeking from Gov't, Australian Atheltics, Australian Sports Commission, Nike etc...

and if you google the comments Nic Bideu or Bideau made on Collingwood's preseason training at altitude in the last decade over in Arizona, he also managed and was the partner of Cathy Freeman for about 5 years, and when she "won 2000 Olympics..." yeah right... and he managed Craig Mottram and the other female sprinter Lauren Hewitt.

anyway.... Nic knows how the game is played. I think Sonia raced in Australian colours for the last decade of her career, I think she won a gold medal in the 10k at the MCG in the 2006 Commonwealth Games...

Wow, that's very "misinformed".

 

[beatthatrat]

Re: Re:

Sonia O'Sullivan...doper?

So I never said anything or questioned anyone because I felt this would only take energy away from me. And I knew I was doing the right thing. Some athletes were getting away with doing the wrong thing, over and over again, so that they believed that is what it took to be the best.

When she spouts crap like that. Definitely!

for Australians, Sonia is married to the Australian journo and owner of Melbourne Track Club, think it was quasi based on a Santa Monica TRack Club, and basically underwritten by rent-seeking from Gov't, Australian Atheltics, Australian Sports Commission, Nike etc...

and if you google the comments Nic Bideu or Bideau made on Collingwood's preseason training at altitude in the last decade over in Arizona, he also managed and was the partner of Cathy Freeman for about 5 years, and when she "won 2000 Olympics..." yeah right... and he managed Craig Mottram and the other female sprinter Lauren Hewitt.

anyway.... Nic knows how the game is played. I think Sonia raced in Australian colours for the last decade of her career, I think she won a gold medal in the 10k at the MCG in the 2006 Commonwealth Games...

Wow, that's very "misinformed".

Upon request from IronDan I'll elaborate on that.
O'Sullivan did not run in Australian colours for the last decade of her career. She did not win a gold medal in the 10k at the MCG in the 2006 Commonwealth Games.
I'm afraid a simple fact check would have helped you out there.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Sonia O'Sullivan...doper?

So I never said anything or questioned anyone because I felt this would only take energy away from me. And I knew I was doing the right thing. Some athletes were getting away with doing the wrong thing, over and over again, so that they believed that is what it took to be the best.

When she spouts crap like that. Definitely!

for Australians, Sonia is married to the Australian journo and owner of Melbourne Track Club, think it was quasi based on a Santa Monica TRack Club, and basically underwritten by rent-seeking from Gov't, Australian Atheltics, Australian Sports Commission, Nike etc...

and if you google the comments Nic Bideu or Bideau made on Collingwood's preseason training at altitude in the last decade over in Arizona, he also managed and was the partner of Cathy Freeman for about 5 years, and when she "won 2000 Olympics..." yeah right... and he managed Craig Mottram and the other female sprinter Lauren Hewitt.

anyway.... Nic knows how the game is played. I think Sonia raced in Australian colours for the last decade of her career, I think she won a gold medal in the 10k at the MCG in the 2006 Commonwealth Games...

Wow, that's very "misinformed".

Upon request from IronDan I'll elaborate on that.
O'Sullivan did not run in Australian colours for the last decade of her career. She did not win a gold medal in the 10k at the MCG in the 2006 Commonwealth Games.
I'm afraid a simple fact check would have helped you out there.

Bideau worked for Nike. He had a lot of trouble from the various members of the (female) track squad, he was with Freeman when she was about 18, he was much much older.

Won't say much else on that one.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

for Australians, Sonia is married to the Australian journo and owner of Melbourne Track Club, think it was quasi based on a Santa Monica TRack Club, and basically underwritten by rent-seeking from Gov't, Australian Atheltics, Australian Sports Commission, Nike etc...

and if you google the comments Nic Bideu or Bideau made on Collingwood's preseason training at altitude in the last decade over in Arizona, he also managed and was the partner of Cathy Freeman for about 5 years, and when she "won 2000 Olympics..." yeah right... and he managed Craig Mottram and the other female sprinter Lauren Hewitt.

anyway.... Nic knows how the game is played. I think Sonia raced in Australian colours for the last decade of her career, I think she won a gold medal in the 10k at the MCG in the 2006 Commonwealth Games...

folks, you really need to harden up and stop reporting my posts. This post was from my memory, I believe all the facts were correct but could not be bothered to google it, feel free to google them yourselves and correct them. For what its worth, I think it is a post worthy of Libertine Seguros' cycling knowledge and memory. I resent having my posts reported when I make a good faith post in contribution.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Wow, that's very "misinformed".

which is why I added the caveat,

if she was still running under ireland colours, she was married to Bideau, so it could be easily conflated. I thought she won a medal in Melbourne at the Commonwealth Games. My memory may well be incorrect.

If you add up all of the information I have provided in good faith to the board, then I think you would concede my memory having this incorrect, but not too far incorrect, I was a cycling person, not an athletics person.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Upon request from IronDan I'll elaborate on that.
O'Sullivan did not run in Australian colours for the last decade of her career. She did not win a gold medal in the 10k at the MCG in the 2006 Commonwealth Games.
I'm afraid a simple fact check would have helped you out there.

but that is not how this part of the forum works, it is like an extemporaneous conversation, if everyone had to "fact check" each and every submission to the forum, they would not have such a temporal relay of thoughts and exchange of posts.

this is how I got it conflated, since I am from Melbourne, i did know of the embroglio over the racing colours, here is the wiki reference

2006[edit]
In January 2006, O'Sullivan applied for dual citizenship, which would allow her to compete for both Ireland and Australia. This request was granted and she intended to represent Australia at the 2006 Commonwealth Games in Melbourne, but to represent Ireland in all other competitions. She was chosen for the Australian Commonwealth team for the 5000 m. However she wasn't able to compete due to a hamstring injury.

so I was wrong, big deal, for all my positive contributions to this forum in good faith, you have three posts and no major history which lacks all context asserting my motivation. It was a post in good faith, it was not accurate on details, but I was adding to the overarching meta truth.