• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Doping In Athletics

Page 41 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jul 5, 2012
85
0
0
Visit site
So Canova can remember the time between the end of the race and the time the sample was taken, 13 years later? Can he remember for all the other times he was there for all athletes over the last X years? Or do they both (him and PR) know the time gap because they were told the result was abnormal some days/weeks later? Is there not a time stamp with all samples so this can be cross checked?
 
Sep 29, 2012
12,197
0
0
dearwiggo.blogspot.com.au
Re:

Chipist said:
So Canova can remember the time between the end of the race and the time the sample was taken, 13 years later? Can he remember for all the other times he was there for all athletes over the last X years? Or do they both (him and PR) know the time gap because they were told the result was abnormal some days/weeks later? Is there not a time stamp with all samples so this can be cross checked?

Not even that. He would see her go in -- did he mention her coming back out again? Wait he didn't even see her enter the doping control area:
In the case of Vilamoura, I well remember that the presentation of the top 3 on the podium happened after no more than 5 minutes after the end of the race FOR THE FIRST GROUP OF ATHLETES (so the winners are on the podium while other athletes continue to arrive, same thing happens in every big Marathon), and the athletes MUST go to the control immediately after the winning ceremony, so no more than 20 minutes after the end of the race.

ie he has no idea the time between end of race and sample provided. None at all. The best he can do is say there was a 20 minute gap, but even that is dodgy.

He then goes on to say the athletes he chaperoned were waiting up to 6 hours or so (till 2am). He does not mention how long Paula was in the area or when she exited.
 
Re:

SeriousSam said:
Very interesting opinion here. Paula's physio. Clinic regulars will love this one, so many gems.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/09/paula-radcliffe-physical-therapist-gerard-hartman-clean-doping

For the lazy, some highlights:

-Would wager his life she's cleans
-There is no Floyd or Hamilton here because she's cleans
-Knows her well. Would have known if she doped.
-he concedes that her world record itself might raise eyebrows, but
--She worked harder than everyone else including other elite athletes.
--Paula apparently has the highest VO2max of any female in the literature!
-Paula wanted to sue Sunday times cos she cleans..
... but upon reflection, she instead wanted to approach the great David Walsh...
...who couldn't cooperate.

Hghh... I don't want to acknowledge the cronyism, but Radcliffe has claimed a VO2 of 73. That's that same as Grete Watiz, and less than Joan Benoit Samulson (78). A few XC skiers above (and well above) her. She is also matched by Paula Ivan, Russian 1500M Gold winner (Go google image her, I dare you), (71.0) Jarmila Krotochvilova,Czech Olympian 400M/800M winner, (72.8), both of whom may not be in good company to share.
 
Sep 29, 2012
12,197
0
0
dearwiggo.blogspot.com.au
Paula Ivan seems legit...

DCjUZKt.jpg


oOCmgKf.jpg
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
the Radcliffe camp screaming "unfair trial by media..." She could end it by releasing her values. Radcliffe had no problem screaming "dopers out" when it suited her and used the media to her own ends, but hardly any media are harassing her. Talk about kicking the PR machine into gear and so many invested in athletics coming out to defend her. Really shows all sport where people earn is truly dirty. Bet she wished Sky were her sponsors...........Murdoch machine could end this 'nightmare'...;)
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
3
0
Visit site
Asked if freeing data would clear her, she said: "I don't need to. I'm clean.

Radcliffe said she would not release her data to "protect a lot of other innocent athletes". She told the BBC: "I do not want to see another innocent athlete put through what I've been through in the last few months."

Radcliffe added: "Two of those are invalid because they were taken immediately post-race and they would not be looked at for that reason.
"But if they are looked at by qualified experts with the full context, they would say that is totally explainable, that's not even suspicious."

07-minister.jpg
 
Sep 29, 2012
12,197
0
0
dearwiggo.blogspot.com.au
Ross Tucker pulled up the data from a study. Condtions were not identical, but after 80 minutes of running the female runners had a slight decrease in Hgb readings.

General feeling is to get 2.8 increase in Hgb would take some pretty darn special circumstances. We could clear it all up -- including the dehydration argument -- pretty easily just by looking at the full result, but of course Paula is not interested for some, strange, twisted reason, in releasing that data, despite previously saying she would.

Meh.
 
Re:

Benotti69 said:
...all sport where people earn is truly dirty.

Of course. Should really not be a mystery to anyone. Whether the Radcliffe case "just shows" this ...is still debatable ... and this is ongoing.

"I think Radcliffe, Bolt, Froome, and on and on are dopers." Is that the core of your argument's contribution? That you think, you suspect, you're convinced, you know ...athletes dope. Your argument seems to suggest that you also distrust-loathe the institutions that oversee these athletes.

Would be refresshing, my learned colleague, to hear what you recommend to amelioriate the condition of professional sport. In other words, do you advocate a proletarian type overthrow of professional sport or do you envision some other process?
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
3
0
Visit site
Re:

Dear Wiggo said:
Ross Tucker pulled up the data from a study. Condtions were not identical, but after 80 minutes of running the female runners had a slight decrease in Hgb readings.

General feeling is to get 2.8 increase in Hgb would take some pretty darn special circumstances. We could clear it all up -- including the dehydration argument -- pretty easily just by looking at the full result, but of course Paula is not interested for some, strange, twisted reason, in releasing that data, despite previously saying she would.

Meh.

Paula was all about transparency and releasing blood values, until she found out she was on the list. If these values belong to some russian, she would be the first to throw stones and call it obvious doping like she has done many times in the past.

I think she is worse than Lance to be honest.
 
Re: Re:

the sceptic said:
Dear Wiggo said:
Ross Tucker pulled up the data from a study. Condtions were not identical, but after 80 minutes of running the female runners had a slight decrease in Hgb readings.

General feeling is to get 2.8 increase in Hgb would take some pretty darn special circumstances. We could clear it all up -- including the dehydration argument -- pretty easily just by looking at the full result, but of course Paula is not interested for some, strange, twisted reason, in releasing that data, despite previously saying she would.

Meh.

Paula was all about transparency and releasing blood values, until she found out she was on the list. If these values belong to some russian, she would be the first to throw stones and call it obvious doping like she has done many times in the past.

I think she is worse than Lance to be honest.

i think you just won the world hyperbole championships!
 
Oh Radcliffe is clearly worse than Lance. I don't remember him being anywhere near as big a hypocrite on the doping. I don't want to totally beatify him on this issue cos I do remember him attacking Di Luca after the RD but before it he didn't go around scapegoating his fellow dopers to get ahead in the world.

He wouldn't go out and slam say Vino or Basso etc as dopers to try and forward his own mythical clean reputation. Or pretend to be friends with clean athletes. In fact he was clear and open about it. - I want doping in the peloton. If you speak out against it I will make your life hell.
He even had that press conference at Cali where he was sitting next to Basso and straight up defended him from Kimmage.


As bad as he was, and as much pain as he caused, at least you knew where he stood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yblTtFnSVaA
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
3
0
Visit site
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
3
0
Visit site
Sky News ‏@SkyNews 40m40 minutes ago
EXCLUSIVE: We obtain blood data which proves Paula Radcliffe has not been involved in doping

really loving this tweet.

Ashenden doesn't know anything about blood doping, but Sky News journalists are experts.

"we obtain" is great too. Like, yeah, you guys just happened to come across those blood values today. What a coincidence.
 

snccdcno

BANNED
Aug 22, 2014
389
0
9,280
Visit site
Re:

the sceptic said:
Sky News ‏@SkyNews 40m40 minutes ago
EXCLUSIVE: We obtain blood data which proves Paula Radcliffe has not been involved in doping

really loving this tweet.

Ashenden doesn't know anything about blood doping, but Sky News journalists are experts.

"we obtain" is great too. Like, yeah, you guys just happened to come across those blood values today. What a coincidence.

Enjoyed the replies to that tweet as well.
 
Sep 10, 2015
10
0
0
Visit site
Re: Re:

Why am I cynically expecting we would never find out the true gap between finish and blood sample...



From antonio cabral on letsrun.Says he was there on the day


"Her doping test in the Half Marathon WC in Portugal, wasnt done immediately after the race. Its not true ! The tests of the all runners that were made on that occasion, were done after the race is finished, and all the female participants finished the race and remember she was the winner and the last one female to finished many minutes after Paula. What really happened there it was that she was nominated/elected to be present at the test right after to cross the finish line, and from that moment on, one female member of the judge follows her until the moment she was present to the doctor cabinet/room to collect the test. From the moment she finished and she was nominated to do ten test, passed more or less one hour and half."
 
Sep 29, 2012
12,197
0
0
dearwiggo.blogspot.com.au
Re: Re:

johndoe99 said:
Why am I cynically expecting we would never find out the true gap between finish and blood sample...



From antonio cabral on letsrun.Says he was there on the day


"Her doping test in the Half Marathon WC in Portugal, wasnt done immediately after the race. Its not true ! The tests of the all runners that were made on that occasion, were done after the race is finished, and all the female participants finished the race and remember she was the winner and the last one female to finished many minutes after Paula. What really happened there it was that she was nominated/elected to be present at the test right after to cross the finish line, and from that moment on, one female member of the judge follows her until the moment she was present to the doctor cabinet/room to collect the test. From the moment she finished and she was nominated to do ten test, passed more or less one hour and half."

Seriously?

Ok I found his post - thank you for bringing it to our attention. As always there's a pinch of salt for everything you read, and I am sure armchairclimber will be bitterly disappointed that he himself could not share this additional info (or not) but it's much appreciated.
 

TRENDING THREADS