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Doping In Athletics

Page 42 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
May 26, 2010
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the Radcliffe camp screaming "unfair trial by media..." She could end it by releasing her values. Radcliffe had no problem screaming "dopers out" when it suited her and used the media to her own ends, but hardly any media are harassing her. Talk about kicking the PR machine into gear and so many invested in athletics coming out to defend her. Really shows all sport where people earn is truly dirty. Bet she wished Sky were her sponsors...........Murdoch machine could end this 'nightmare'...;)
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Asked if freeing data would clear her, she said: "I don't need to. I'm clean.

Radcliffe said she would not release her data to "protect a lot of other innocent athletes". She told the BBC: "I do not want to see another innocent athlete put through what I've been through in the last few months."

Radcliffe added: "Two of those are invalid because they were taken immediately post-race and they would not be looked at for that reason.
"But if they are looked at by qualified experts with the full context, they would say that is totally explainable, that's not even suspicious."
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Ross Tucker pulled up the data from a study. Condtions were not identical, but after 80 minutes of running the female runners had a slight decrease in Hgb readings.

General feeling is to get 2.8 increase in Hgb would take some pretty darn special circumstances. We could clear it all up -- including the dehydration argument -- pretty easily just by looking at the full result, but of course Paula is not interested for some, strange, twisted reason, in releasing that data, despite previously saying she would.

Meh.
 
Re:

Benotti69 said:
...all sport where people earn is truly dirty.
Of course. Should really not be a mystery to anyone. Whether the Radcliffe case "just shows" this ...is still debatable ... and this is ongoing.

"I think Radcliffe, Bolt, Froome, and on and on are dopers." Is that the core of your argument's contribution? That you think, you suspect, you're convinced, you know ...athletes dope. Your argument seems to suggest that you also distrust-loathe the institutions that oversee these athletes.

Would be refresshing, my learned colleague, to hear what you recommend to amelioriate the condition of professional sport. In other words, do you advocate a proletarian type overthrow of professional sport or do you envision some other process?
 
Jun 25, 2009
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Jul 21, 2012
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Re:

Dear Wiggo said:
Ross Tucker pulled up the data from a study. Condtions were not identical, but after 80 minutes of running the female runners had a slight decrease in Hgb readings.

General feeling is to get 2.8 increase in Hgb would take some pretty darn special circumstances. We could clear it all up -- including the dehydration argument -- pretty easily just by looking at the full result, but of course Paula is not interested for some, strange, twisted reason, in releasing that data, despite previously saying she would.

Meh.
Paula was all about transparency and releasing blood values, until she found out she was on the list. If these values belong to some russian, she would be the first to throw stones and call it obvious doping like she has done many times in the past.

I think she is worse than Lance to be honest.
 
Re: Re:

the sceptic said:
Dear Wiggo said:
Ross Tucker pulled up the data from a study. Condtions were not identical, but after 80 minutes of running the female runners had a slight decrease in Hgb readings.

General feeling is to get 2.8 increase in Hgb would take some pretty darn special circumstances. We could clear it all up -- including the dehydration argument -- pretty easily just by looking at the full result, but of course Paula is not interested for some, strange, twisted reason, in releasing that data, despite previously saying she would.

Meh.
Paula was all about transparency and releasing blood values, until she found out she was on the list. If these values belong to some russian, she would be the first to throw stones and call it obvious doping like she has done many times in the past.

I think she is worse than Lance to be honest.
i think you just won the world hyperbole championships!
 
Oh Radcliffe is clearly worse than Lance. I don't remember him being anywhere near as big a hypocrite on the doping. I don't want to totally beatify him on this issue cos I do remember him attacking Di Luca after the RD but before it he didn't go around scapegoating his fellow dopers to get ahead in the world.

He wouldn't go out and slam say Vino or Basso etc as dopers to try and forward his own mythical clean reputation. Or pretend to be friends with clean athletes. In fact he was clear and open about it. - I want doping in the peloton. If you speak out against it I will make your life hell.
He even had that press conference at Cali where he was sitting next to Basso and straight up defended him from Kimmage.


As bad as he was, and as much pain as he caused, at least you knew where he stood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yblTtFnSVaA
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Jul 21, 2012
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Sky News ‏@SkyNews 40m40 minutes ago
EXCLUSIVE: We obtain blood data which proves Paula Radcliffe has not been involved in doping
really loving this tweet.

Ashenden doesn't know anything about blood doping, but Sky News journalists are experts.

"we obtain" is great too. Like, yeah, you guys just happened to come across those blood values today. What a coincidence.
 
Aug 22, 2014
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Re:

the sceptic said:
Sky News ‏@SkyNews 40m40 minutes ago
EXCLUSIVE: We obtain blood data which proves Paula Radcliffe has not been involved in doping
really loving this tweet.

Ashenden doesn't know anything about blood doping, but Sky News journalists are experts.

"we obtain" is great too. Like, yeah, you guys just happened to come across those blood values today. What a coincidence.
Enjoyed the replies to that tweet as well.
 
Sep 10, 2015
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Re: Re:

Why am I cynically expecting we would never find out the true gap between finish and blood sample...



From antonio cabral on letsrun.Says he was there on the day


"Her doping test in the Half Marathon WC in Portugal, wasnt done immediately after the race. Its not true ! The tests of the all runners that were made on that occasion, were done after the race is finished, and all the female participants finished the race and remember she was the winner and the last one female to finished many minutes after Paula. What really happened there it was that she was nominated/elected to be present at the test right after to cross the finish line, and from that moment on, one female member of the judge follows her until the moment she was present to the doctor cabinet/room to collect the test. From the moment she finished and she was nominated to do ten test, passed more or less one hour and half."
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Re: Re:

johndoe99 said:
Why am I cynically expecting we would never find out the true gap between finish and blood sample...



From antonio cabral on letsrun.Says he was there on the day


"Her doping test in the Half Marathon WC in Portugal, wasnt done immediately after the race. Its not true ! The tests of the all runners that were made on that occasion, were done after the race is finished, and all the female participants finished the race and remember she was the winner and the last one female to finished many minutes after Paula. What really happened there it was that she was nominated/elected to be present at the test right after to cross the finish line, and from that moment on, one female member of the judge follows her until the moment she was present to the doctor cabinet/room to collect the test. From the moment she finished and she was nominated to do ten test, passed more or less one hour and half."
Seriously?

Ok I found his post - thank you for bringing it to our attention. As always there's a pinch of salt for everything you read, and I am sure armchairclimber will be bitterly disappointed that he himself could not share this additional info (or not) but it's much appreciated.
 
Makes no odds to me, I've been working. I don't really know how much difference it makes...and is he referring to a urine test or blood test? If she was that dehydrated I can't imagine a urine test being viable straight away....as I implied upthread. Blood could have been though.
 
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/blood-tests-cleared-paula-radcliffe-125951975.html

Ashenden mentioned here, in relation to her values being below a threshold he had talked about. Interesting ...

"In 2003 Michael Ashenden and Robin Parisotto, who worked closely with The Sunday Times, contributed to a paper in the journal Haematologica, which said the commonly used cut-off value for females training at altitude is 111.7, higher than two of Radcliffe's test scores."
 
Re:

armchairclimber said:
Makes no odds to me, I've been working. I don't really know how much difference it makes...and is he referring to a urine test or blood test? If she was that dehydrated I can't imagine a urine test being viable straight away....as I implied upthread. Blood could have been though.
A urine sample is always a viable sample to test (assuming it is handled properly). A blood sample is always a viable sample to test.

A blood sample is not always a viable test to submit to the BP (many blood tests are not BP tests).

The formal ABP protocol ensures that any blood test used for the profile is taken 2 hours after competition.
blood sample is not always a viable test to submit to the BP (many blood tests are not BP tests).

In 2003, there was no APB. Scores and their changes were monitored in a similar, longitudinal fashion, in order to determine suspicion, and who to target test.

Paula's post race blood test was not ABP protocol; there was no protocol.

Paula's dehydration would effect/(delay) her ability to give a urine sample, not its viability.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Not sure where they come from but a graph of Brit female off-scores has been posted. I updated my off-score table to include 12 Hgb as the lower value. You can spot the combinations that allow Hatti Archer to have 41 and Jo Pavey not much higher.

Curious that Paula only seems to have a few tests vs the others?



 
Jul 27, 2014
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After I mentioned that 114 is 10% higher than the 103 mark


"Which is why results taken 2hrs after competition are invalid, as they can give false positives. Your red blood cell count spikes after extreme exertion, dehydration and times at high altitude. All of which are factors in many marathons and half-marathons.

If she had that count in a much shorter race with few or none of those factors present, it might be different.

edit: 2 of her results are below the 111.7 normal level after altitude training. The third is invalid due to when itwas taken."
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Re:

armchairclimber said:
I wouldn't pretend to read her mind but I suspects that, like most athletes, she'll use time as a marker for the merit of a performance. It's also probably not, retrospectively speaking, an event that would have been amongst the most memorable (ie not like a Chicago/Boston/New York? London marathon...just a half too).
As I said earlier, I'd like to hear what Ashenden says in response to the "irresponsible" accusation. It'll either be nothing or a robust defence.
Paula seems to feel differently:
The World Half Marathon Championships are really special to me,” said the marathon world record-holder. “My first title was in 2000 in Veracruz in Mexico and it came off the back of my disappointment in finishing fourth at the Sydney Olympic Games after having led for 24 of the 25 laps in the 10,000m.

“It kind of was the transition and the boost that I needed at that point to show me the way towards the marathon, which really was my event later on. But at that stage, the half marathon was my event. And it was such a fun event and just something that I really loved, but it gave me my first world title and I think that probably then gave me the confidence to go on and get the world title over the cross country as a senior in Ostend in 2001 and to back it up with more world half-marathon titles.”

http://www.iaaf.org/news/news/world-half-marathon-cardiff-2016-radcliffe
 

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