Yeah, but that really was a more private enterprise that used word of mouth to attract the big guns.
I don't think teams in any american sport are doping systemically. They can't or won't put themselves in a position to hurt the bottom-line by colluding with the dopers, as that could prompt a huge scandal that hurt viewing figures, TV deals, attendances and the general popularity of the sport. What I think is that they turn a massive blind eye to the signs of doping. For all we complain about cycling, we as amateurs have massive access to professional biological data and circumstantial evidence that makes us hyper-aware of PED use, particularly as this is a sport where aerobic/strength performance can be significantly aided by it in a very obvious way to the layman.
Contrast this with the NFL, a sport where there are 53 players on the field, of varying sizes and weights, with differing performance expectations (a QB has next to no use for PEDs, for example) and a 'PVP' element, where the strongest guy wins. If you're a lineman, for example, and you beat a guy all game long, they'll just say he was weaker than you, or his technique was wrong. The excuses write themselves and are propagated by the media.
With baseball, hockey, basketball etc... it's the same thing. Where do you quantify the results? Is it because a home run goes further? Because it's partly skill-based, there's an element of 'well it didn't make him hit the ball' or 'it didn't make him score more 3pt shots'. Team owners in all 4 major sports have no reason to add HGH testing urgently, as fans are prepared to suspend their disbelief and buy into teh idea that they're all clean.
I don't think teams in any american sport are doping systemically. They can't or won't put themselves in a position to hurt the bottom-line by colluding with the dopers, as that could prompt a huge scandal that hurt viewing figures, TV deals, attendances and the general popularity of the sport. What I think is that they turn a massive blind eye to the signs of doping. For all we complain about cycling, we as amateurs have massive access to professional biological data and circumstantial evidence that makes us hyper-aware of PED use, particularly as this is a sport where aerobic/strength performance can be significantly aided by it in a very obvious way to the layman.
Contrast this with the NFL, a sport where there are 53 players on the field, of varying sizes and weights, with differing performance expectations (a QB has next to no use for PEDs, for example) and a 'PVP' element, where the strongest guy wins. If you're a lineman, for example, and you beat a guy all game long, they'll just say he was weaker than you, or his technique was wrong. The excuses write themselves and are propagated by the media.
With baseball, hockey, basketball etc... it's the same thing. Where do you quantify the results? Is it because a home run goes further? Because it's partly skill-based, there's an element of 'well it didn't make him hit the ball' or 'it didn't make him score more 3pt shots'. Team owners in all 4 major sports have no reason to add HGH testing urgently, as fans are prepared to suspend their disbelief and buy into teh idea that they're all clean.
Brazilian footballer Fred (not the shite old one) failed a test during the Copa America http://www.espnfc.com/copa-america/story/2538659/fred-tests-positive-in-anti-doping-screening#
- Mar 15, 2011
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With regards to doping in NFL, I think the tipping point will come out of this concussion discussion. In my mind, the most meaningful way to make players realize the dangers of doping is to tie it to dangers they are realizing now: getting hit really really hard. I've said for a while that the rise in concussions is better diagnostics, but also that players are hitting each other harder than ever, in part due to doping. That concussions are a national discussion is fuel, but a spark may unfortunately be a gnarly hit that by a player immediately tied to doping.
As for baseball, I don't think enough fans see it as enough of a physical contest to care about doping. Cycling or athletics has fans that don't care, because they think it is a pevel playing field, and the ones that do care donso because they know dope skews the contest. While of course baseball is impacted by drugs, the discussion is always about what pitchers are in the rotation, who made the error that lost the game, and how many millions a player is getting next year. no one talks about which team or players have more speed, or more power, or more endurance. It's just not seen as part of the game.
As for baseball, I don't think enough fans see it as enough of a physical contest to care about doping. Cycling or athletics has fans that don't care, because they think it is a pevel playing field, and the ones that do care donso because they know dope skews the contest. While of course baseball is impacted by drugs, the discussion is always about what pitchers are in the rotation, who made the error that lost the game, and how many millions a player is getting next year. no one talks about which team or players have more speed, or more power, or more endurance. It's just not seen as part of the game.
Yeah I agree that another positive of concussions is making players more aware of their long-term health. There are a number of players from the 70s and 80s who suffered either mental or physical repercussions of the steroids that were available in that era (Lyle Alzado blamed it for his brain tumour which is debatable) and there are of course a lot of suicides in former players that are linked to steroid abuse.
The problem you have is that for NFL owners, they would need to admit their knowledge of the problem if they introduce rigorous HGH testing or even get more serious about looking at the physiological signs of doping. They couldn't just do it overnight without pre-warning the players, because half of the league might end up suspended and your only option is either a cover up or brand suicide.
This is a quote about teh current method of HGH testing:
"The isoform test that the NFL used this season to test for HGH "doesn't catch many people at all," Catlin told USA TODAY Sports. "It's not a test that's designed to really do that. It will catch you if you just used it a few hours ago, but if it's a day or more, it's not going to find you."
The league knows this. They would probably like to find 1-2 so they can prove that the test works and they don't need to be more inventive with how they do this, but they aren't doing this to catch the guys with a pre-planned Regimen like USP, they're doing it to catch the morons who get careless.
The problem you have is that for NFL owners, they would need to admit their knowledge of the problem if they introduce rigorous HGH testing or even get more serious about looking at the physiological signs of doping. They couldn't just do it overnight without pre-warning the players, because half of the league might end up suspended and your only option is either a cover up or brand suicide.
This is a quote about teh current method of HGH testing:
"The isoform test that the NFL used this season to test for HGH "doesn't catch many people at all," Catlin told USA TODAY Sports. "It's not a test that's designed to really do that. It will catch you if you just used it a few hours ago, but if it's a day or more, it's not going to find you."
The league knows this. They would probably like to find 1-2 so they can prove that the test works and they don't need to be more inventive with how they do this, but they aren't doing this to catch the guys with a pre-planned Regimen like USP, they're doing it to catch the morons who get careless.
Alex Rodriguez repeatedly guilty drug cheat, just turned 40 after 3+ seasons of being rubbish, injured and suspended has hit 23 HR's already this year and is a top 10 hitter. Oh yeah and he just turned 40! It looks, sounds and walks very much like a duck
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Re:
Rodriguez is one of the most fascinating athletes in all of sports.
Guy has been implicated more times than anyone and suspended for an entire year, yet he keeps coming back and performing at superhuman levels. Does anyone think he reverted to bread and water during his year-long suspension? Of course not.
He just doesn't give a ***.
Only issue I take is with the notion that he was rubbish before his suspension. Not true at all.
He is one of the best baseball players ever.
gazr99 said:
Rodriguez is one of the most fascinating athletes in all of sports.
Guy has been implicated more times than anyone and suspended for an entire year, yet he keeps coming back and performing at superhuman levels. Does anyone think he reverted to bread and water during his year-long suspension? Of course not.
He just doesn't give a ***.
Only issue I take is with the notion that he was rubbish before his suspension. Not true at all.
He is one of the best baseball players ever.
- May 2, 2009
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Anyone who has a centaur painting with his likeness above his bed is batting 1.000 in my books.
Well done, A-Rod!
blackcat said:
Anyone who has a centaur painting with his likeness above his bed is batting 1.000 in my books.
Well done, A-Rod!
- Jul 18, 2010
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Wanderlei Silva has been making pretty much a non-stop stream of accusations of improprieties against the UFC ever since he quit (rather than being fired) after dodging an OOC before a fight last year. I'm sure Dana White and the UFC's attorneys have just been biding their time, waiting for Silva to say something outlandish enough to make himself vulnerable to civil action, which they would avail themselves of just as a means to shut him up. Silva recently posted on Facebook that he had proof the UFC were fixing fights, which the UFC's lawyer's seem to think suite their needs. So they have filed suit against The Axe Murderer in a Nevada district court for Intentional Misconduct for what they call defamation and business disparagement. Seems to me that fight fixing is the most defamatory thing you can accuse a fight organisation of, so unless he genuinely has this proof, I'd say the UFC probably has just the muzzle they were looking for.
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I am not suggesting any wrongdoing by the Canadian
ice-hockey player, but a somewhat 'interesting' choice
of off-season training advisor for the young sportsman:
http://www.tsn.ca/talent/subban-training-with-former-track-star-ben-johnson-1.338428
ice-hockey player, but a somewhat 'interesting' choice
of off-season training advisor for the young sportsman:
http://www.tsn.ca/talent/subban-training-with-former-track-star-ben-johnson-1.338428
- Jun 14, 2010
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4 games isn't the punishment for doping. Its the punishment for being too stupid to avoid the 2 tests a year they actually do/ too poor to have a top doctor organize your doping.
I doubt there's anyone in the pro bowl year to year who isn't on gear.
argel said:
4 games isn't the punishment for doping. Its the punishment for being too stupid to avoid the 2 tests a year they actually do/ too poor to have a top doctor organize your doping.
I doubt there's anyone in the pro bowl year to year who isn't on gear.
Re:
I am sorry to say that I don't think this is entirely accurate.
The system wide use of PEDS is very well embedded in NFL if you ask me
I have friends who have a son who is 16 and 240 lbs which is huge!!!! he has been told by the three best colleges in the USA for Football scholoarships that he needs to put on 30lbs AT LEAST to even be considered, it is way before the NFL that these kids are started onto the PED route and they are on it for their whole careers.
Also the idea that a quarter back is not on PEDS is ridiculous, they have as much need of PEDS as anyone else - while the front men are on the anabolic steroids and bulking agents the QB is probably on testosterone, probably some dianobol to increase power in the shoulder and back and to help with fluid retention around the shoulder joint and flexibility and potentially some sort of stabiliser to allow the adrenaline to be counteracted and for them to be able to make the right choices.
These will all be more pertinent once the QB starts to get older.
As for the running backs - see whatever Bolt or Gatlin are on.
I agree that the owners have no wish to change it and neither do the fans. NFL is like the WWE with helmets on.
As for baseball - I am english so will not get into a serious discussion about a game of rounders - Sorry.
\argel said:
I am sorry to say that I don't think this is entirely accurate.
The system wide use of PEDS is very well embedded in NFL if you ask me
I have friends who have a son who is 16 and 240 lbs which is huge!!!! he has been told by the three best colleges in the USA for Football scholoarships that he needs to put on 30lbs AT LEAST to even be considered, it is way before the NFL that these kids are started onto the PED route and they are on it for their whole careers.
Also the idea that a quarter back is not on PEDS is ridiculous, they have as much need of PEDS as anyone else - while the front men are on the anabolic steroids and bulking agents the QB is probably on testosterone, probably some dianobol to increase power in the shoulder and back and to help with fluid retention around the shoulder joint and flexibility and potentially some sort of stabiliser to allow the adrenaline to be counteracted and for them to be able to make the right choices.
These will all be more pertinent once the QB starts to get older.
As for the running backs - see whatever Bolt or Gatlin are on.
I agree that the owners have no wish to change it and neither do the fans. NFL is like the WWE with helmets on.
As for baseball - I am english so will not get into a serious discussion about a game of rounders - Sorry.
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Yeah, the idea that qbs wouldn't dope is silly. Every game 7 300 pound beasts stand right in front of him with the sole aim all game of hurting him. They don't take painkillers? They don't need arm strength? Why won't Peyton just play for ever then? Being faster wouldn't help escape sacks?
- May 2, 2009
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oldcrank said:
I like Ben Johnson, but let's face it--he's not exactly the swiftest ship in her majesty's fleet. No way in hell would Subban trust Ben to come up with a personalized doping program.
wonderful
maybe now cycling will get the recognition it deserves as most advanced anti doping sport.
with all the suckage , compared to rest of the sports, cycling is a beacon of light from anti doping pov
maybe now cycling will get the recognition it deserves as most advanced anti doping sport.
with all the suckage , compared to rest of the sports, cycling is a beacon of light from anti doping pov
- Jun 22, 2010
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"Don't worry about my 2:15 marathon. I beat the doped Kenyans and Russians running clean!"
blackcat said:
"Don't worry about my 2:15 marathon. I beat the doped Kenyans and Russians running clean!"
- Mar 25, 2013
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The Hitch said:
Fan of Murdoch.
I barely read that paper. Walsh has nothing to do with this. Jonathan Calvert is the author of the article above and you would want to check his past record first before throwing out your sell-out comment.I recognised ARD and Hajo Seppelt's brilliant work in another thread. The Sunday Times and ARD were the two outlets that got access to the 12,000 blood tests. The Sunday Times tomorrow has an article where last weekend they spoke to the top British athlete who is on the list of having abnormal blood values. The Sunday Times got their own experts to look at this. They even claim it's a one in a thousand of being natural.
That's a fact and no agenda on your part can get away from it.
It's a good thing football is clean at least. You know, being about technique and all that. In football, as opposed to all other sports, technique is about the mental, not the physical. I mean, it's not like if two players share the same physical attributes that the one who is most physically fit will have the better technique, certainly not after 90 minutes of hard play! No, technique is a constant, something you are born with and that you cannot change. It's a mystical, almost spiritual thing. And that is why drugs don't work in football. Even if footballers would use them I mean - which is doubtful, since, after all, they have already got all that money. Why use drugs to earn money when you are already a millionaire? Seems like common sense to me. Anyway, the problem with Arsenal is that they always try to walk it in.
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