Doping in other sports?

[Rob27172]

Re:

Re, doping in NFL which we discussed earlier, seen this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIZvpHbmkDk

Just wish any ex cyclist would come out and tell the stories on record that we hear behind closed doors

I know an ex cyclist who was locked in a room for four days without food because his DS said he was 2 kg overweight and was getting fat.
He would lower money out of the window to locl kids to go get him bananas or fruit to feed himself.
And stories of being told to meet doctors in car parks to collect bags of pills or get shots which they were never told about.
And getting given vials of fluid 50km from the end of a race and not remembering anything until 1 hour after the race on the massage table when they start to come around from the drug fuelled rampage they had been on on their bike for the last 3 hours

It happens in every sport apparently

 

[Handy Bendy Ghandi]

Re:

Lyon was satirical

Lyon.....now that's a bloody good film.

I used to have some potted plants

 

[Handy Bendy Ghandi]

Re:

She looks like 40. May the side-effects of all the dope... Who knows.

Oh, for the love of Jimi Hendrix's 6 fingered father !

 

[the delgados]

@Rob27172
Manzano did it and he was shown the door immediately. If I recall correctly, the UCI did their best to discredit/minimize his statements and basically said there's nothing to see here. Let's all just move on.
I wonder where he is now.

The link posted is fascinating, not only for it's content and the person interviewed. I've seen it a couple times now, and I'm pretty sure I've posted it here in the past. The thing about it that strikes me the most is the fact they don't talk about all the other drugs the players are using. Which just reinforces the notion that PED's are a given.

 

[Rob27172]

Yes there is no mention of corticoids or cortisone or other coping drugs or of the steroid and hgh abuse
But as you say that is probably more of a cultural thing.

I honestly believe that most cyclists do not feel they are cheating because they know everyone is on the gear so they see it as part of the job and therefore no need to question it. and end up believing the paradigm of a level playing field because it is a given they are all on drugs

teh same in the NFL it has been going on for so long that it is just seen as part of the job, taking steroids is no different to putting on yoru pads and helmet and running onto the field. all just part of the job .

 

[Lyon]

In the early ninties I had a classmate that played for the Norwegian national hockey team and he would often comment on the use of drugs in the NHL. I don't know where he got his information but there have been a few ex-NHL players in the Norwegian league. Anyway, my point is that even the naive Norwegians knew what was happening.

Of course, if he had an offer from a team in the NHL he would probably jump on it.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Re: Re:

Nevermind my comment. Saw her twitter, she has that hairline since she was an infant.

And Froom (rhymes with ZOOM) once had Badzilla. What difference does it make? All infants have big heads and bad hair. They're supposed to grow out of it.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

My wife has a friend who has a similar hairline ....not all women have a werewolf hairline and not all women are photographed with wet hair ....She certainly does not show any effects of steroids. Spots, jaw line. heavily muscled. Its a ridiculous statement based on her hairline.

you are wrong, they are significant muscles for a 15 girl who swims the 1500 metres. You can argue she swims the 200,400 and 800 too, but you are still wrong. They dont do the free weights of the bodybuilders in the gym to shape their muscles and sculpt their physique. it is 100% functional. Not to perve at on a bodybuilding stage.

The control sample is all the women swimmers who have gone before her. And all of the doped swimmers, especially the Australian doped swimmers.

She is about 5'11", and carrying muscle, but no subcutaneous tissue on her face, and her face rendered off all excess red tissue. This is, #NOTNORMAL. The is a rule of thumb correlation between carrying muscle size, versus the other tissue. More muscle, more other tissue.

She is an athlete she will develop muscle. She does not have anything extra ordinary in muscle development. she is still very feminine.
I used to be into Body building I saw 2 or 3 women who started taking anabolic steroids the effects were clear to see and they did not have to be ripped. You can clearly see it in women's athletics the mass and the harshness look that goes with it.

I am not saying she is clean but IMO she is not taking steroids.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

She is an athlete she will develop muscle. She does not have anything extra ordinary in muscle development. she is still very feminine.
I used to be into Body building I saw 2 or 3 women who started taking anabolic steroids the effects were clear to see and they did not have to be ripped. You can clearly see it in women's athletics the mass and the harshness look that goes with it.

I am not saying she is clean but IMO she is not taking steroids.

not at 15 tho. She built her muscle at 15? It took her no time to build the muscle?

no, sorry. #NOTNORMAL

 

[Handy Bendy Ghandi]

Re: Re:

She is an athlete she will develop muscle. She does not have anything extra ordinary in muscle development. she is still very feminine.
I used to be into Body building I saw 2 or 3 women who started taking anabolic steroids the effects were clear to see and they did not have to be ripped. You can clearly see it in women's athletics the mass and the harshness look that goes with it.

I am not saying she is clean but IMO she is not taking steroids.

not at 15 tho. She built her muscle at 15? It took her no time to build the muscle?

no, sorry. #NOTNORMAL

There are lots of things that aren't normal..............believing the X Factor to be acceptable entertainment isn't normal............thinking that the acquisition of a private numberplate for one's car will enhance the enjoyment of life isn't normal.

Actually, was she 15 when that photo was taken ? If I were a 16 year old boy, I would be very interested...........(saying that, when I was a 16 year old boy, I was interested as long as there was a pulse and the limbs were vaguely symmetrical..............)

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

There are lots of things that aren't normal..............believing the X Factor to be acceptable entertainment isn't normal............thinking that the acquisition of a private numberplate for one's car will enhance the enjoyment of life isn't normal.

Actually, was she 15 when that photo was taken ? If I were a 16 year old boy, I would be very interested...........(saying that, when I was a 16 year old boy, I was interested as long as there was a pulse and the limbs were vaguely symmetrical..............)

appreciate the droll contributions. <thumbsup>

i think some of the pics i posted were from the last olympics when she was 15. (think, not sure).

still, verrrry large 15yo, for a male or a female. I know females mature early. but a 5'10 5'11" 15yo who is 163lbs, with about 7% bodyfat, would not have happened in another era. Its the dope. Compare the subcutaneous tissue with the GDR athletes of the 70s. Yes, Ledecky might be doing 50% greater work program, but how is she working that much more, when the GDR worked them to the bone, and were from the Eastern Soviet model of "throw a few dozen eggs at the wall and collect the one or ones who have not broken".

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

I previously had posted the peculiar circumstances surrounding the OOC testing for UFC fighter José Aldo in his native Brazil leading up to UFC 189 (which he ultimately withdrew from owing to rib injury sustained in training). The new story from MMA Weekly online is even more bizarre:

The Nevada Athletic Commission enlisted the services of Drug Free Sports, an American company, to send an agent to Brazil to collect a urine sample from Aldo. Despite having a work visa that allows him to perform his duties in Brazil, and DFS also enlisting the assistance of a local drug collection officer to assist him, DFS’s Ben Mosier was delayed for two days in his effort to collect a sample, and even then, the Brazilian MMA Athletic Commission (CABMMA) took over.

On June 10, neither Mosier nor Aldo’s coach, Andre Pederneiras, were able to locate Aldo and get him to the gym to collect the sample, according to a DFS recap of the bizarre collection attempt.

Aldo gave a sample the next day, but an off-duty Brazilian federal police officer who was training at the gym interfered, delaying the process until a representative from CABMMA arrived. Due to a loss of control of the sample because of the detention, Aldo’s collected sample was thrown out, according to the DFS statement.

The officer detained Mosier, the DFS collector, until immigration officials arrived, reviewed his paperwork, and eventually cleared him to resume his duties, but not until the following day, June 12.

Arriving late on June 12, Aldo gave a sample, which he spilled, and then gave another about half an hour later, which CABMMA officials, not the DFS collector or his Brazilian associate, took control of, packaged, and processed for delivery to a lab in the United States.

It’s also interesting that DFS’s recap of the collection included a note that the drug collection officer that CABMMA used on June 12 brought a magazine that he had Aldo autograph and also took a picture with Aldo before leaving the gym.

 

[ray j willings]

Blackcat,,, my eldest son is 12 he is very tall for his age 95th percentile ...he also has 2 friends the same age who are the same height, 5'8....he just finished his first year at secondary school.
In his last year at junior school 2 girls in his class were taller than my son these girls are now 12/13 years old and are 5'9 maybe 5;10 both are taller than my son.
Your making assumptions that are not based on fact just innuendo because she his tall and she has developed muscle from doing a sport she loves, her muscle's are far from outrageous.

Like I said before she may not be clean but there is nothing in her physique that alludes to steroids.
She looks very feminine and looks very healthy. Not even a zit.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Defrocked former UFC middleweight champion Anderson "the Spider" Silva will have his day in court with the NSAC tomorrow (13 August) to answer to charges of failing two OOCs. Silva's public defence strategy has evolved over the months, beginning with conjectures he maybe did it to accelerate the mending of the tib-fib he shattered over Chris Weidman's knee in UFC 168 (December 2013), then he maybe did it because the injury had caused him to be depressed, which later changed again to an unequivocal denial of any doping.

But in the defence pleading filed with NSAC, Silva's attorneys are claiming his positive for the anabolic steroid metabolite Drostanolone was the result of experimentation with a sexual performance enhancement product.

Not kidding. From the pleading:

Silva was administering or using a supplement for the purpose of enhancing sexual performance and testing of the supplement revealed that the supplement was contaminated with an Exogenous Anabolic Agent: Drostanalone Metabolite. The contaminated supplement is the cause of the presence of the Exogenous Anabolic Agent - Drostanalone Metabolite in Silva's urine.

Seems to me he's merging FLandis' wiki defence with El Pistolero's tainted steak. Probably would be a better plan to copy a defence that actually had succeeded.

 

[coinneach]

I wonder if posters are aware of the controversy around Chelsea football club demoting their doctors for behaving like doctors?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33890769

It reminded me of the debate in the clinic about the relative importance of doctors in modern sport.
Some posters give doctors almost omnipotent importance.
But in reality in modern pro sport, they are a long way down the pecking order, and by and large, do what they are told to by team management.
Or get sacked.

 

[franic]

Re: Re:

My wife has a friend who has a similar hairline ....not all women have a werewolf hairline and not all women are photographed with wet hair ....She certainly does not show any effects of steroids. Spots, jaw line. heavily muscled. Its a ridiculous statement based on her hairline.

you are wrong, they are significant muscles for a 15 girl who swims the 1500 metres. You can argue she swims the 200,400 and 800 too, but you are still wrong. They dont do the free weights of the bodybuilders in the gym to shape their muscles and sculpt their physique. it is 100% functional. Not to perve at on a bodybuilding stage.

The control sample is all the women swimmers who have gone before her. And all of the doped swimmers, especially the Australian doped swimmers.

She is about 5'11", and carrying muscle, but no subcutaneous tissue on her face, and her face rendered off all excess red tissue. This is, #NOTNORMAL. The is a rule of thumb correlation between carrying muscle size, versus the other tissue. More muscle, more other tissue.

I’ve checked and she already had that hair line when she was much younger

So I guess it’s not a case of steroids-induced alopecia

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Re: Re:

My wife has a friend who has a similar hairline ....not all women have a werewolf hairline and not all women are photographed with wet hair ....She certainly does not show any effects of steroids. Spots, jaw line. heavily muscled. Its a ridiculous statement based on her hairline.

you are wrong, they are significant muscles for a 15 girl who swims the 1500 metres. You can argue she swims the 200,400 and 800 too, but you are still wrong. They dont do the free weights of the bodybuilders in the gym to shape their muscles and sculpt their physique. it is 100% functional. Not to perve at on a bodybuilding stage.

The control sample is all the women swimmers who have gone before her. And all of the doped swimmers, especially the Australian doped swimmers.

She is about 5'11", and carrying muscle, but no subcutaneous tissue on her face, and her face rendered off all excess red tissue. This is, #NOTNORMAL. The is a rule of thumb correlation between carrying muscle size, versus the other tissue. More muscle, more other tissue.

I’ve checked and she already had that hair line when she was much younger

So I guess it’s not a case of steroids-induced alopecia

... or maybe you underestimate how young she started.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

Defrocked former UFC middleweight champion Anderson "the Spider" Silva will have his day in court with the NSAC tomorrow (13 August) to answer to charges of failing two OOCs. Silva's public defence strategy has evolved over the months, beginning with conjectures he maybe did it to accelerate the mending of the tib-fib he shattered over Chris Weidman's knee in UFC 168 (December 2013), then he maybe did it because the injury had caused him to be depressed, which later changed again to an unequivocal denial of any doping.

But in the defence pleading filed with NSAC, Silva's attorneys are claiming his positive for the anabolic steroid metabolite Drostanolone was the result of experimentation with a sexual performance enhancement product.

Not kidding. From the pleading:

Silva was administering or using a supplement for the purpose of enhancing sexual performance and testing of the supplement revealed that the supplement was contaminated with an Exogenous Anabolic Agent: Drostanalone Metabolite. The contaminated supplement is the cause of the presence of the Exogenous Anabolic Agent - Drostanalone Metabolite in Silva's urine.

Seems to me he's merging FLandis' wiki defence with El Pistolero's tainted steak. Probably would be a better plan to copy a defence that actually had succeeded.

So he gets 1 year.

How the flippin' heck does that even work? I thought they were WADA signatories?

http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/13432162/anderson-silva-suspended-one-year-failed-drug-tests?ex_cid=espnFB

The one-year suspension is dated retroactively to Jan. 31. He was also fined $380,000 and must submit a clean test before he can be re-licensed. The result of the fight, a unanimous decision victory for Silva, changes to a no-contest.

Silva (33-6) maintained his innocence throughout the disciplinary hearing, stating the failed drug tests were a result of a contaminated sexual-performance enhancing drug he received in an unmarked vial from a friend who lives in Thailand.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

My wife has a friend who has a similar hairline ....not all women have a werewolf hairline and not all women are photographed with wet hair ....She certainly does not show any effects of steroids. Spots, jaw line. heavily muscled. Its a ridiculous statement based on her hairline.

you are wrong, they are significant muscles for a 15 girl who swims the 1500 metres. You can argue she swims the 200,400 and 800 too, but you are still wrong. They dont do the free weights of the bodybuilders in the gym to shape their muscles and sculpt their physique. it is 100% functional. Not to perve at on a bodybuilding stage.

The control sample is all the women swimmers who have gone before her. And all of the doped swimmers, especially the Australian doped swimmers.

She is about 5'11", and carrying muscle, but no subcutaneous tissue on her face, and her face rendered off all excess red tissue. This is, #NOTNORMAL. The is a rule of thumb correlation between carrying muscle size, versus the other tissue. More muscle, more other tissue.

I’ve checked and she already had that hair line when she was much younger

So I guess it’s not a case of steroids-induced alopecia

... or maybe you underestimate how young she started.

Seriously ....I mean lets discuss PED's but looking at that photo of a young girl getting a autograph and your making assumptions that she is on steroids .. unbelievable ,,,seriously wrong , paranoid lunacy

 

[Rob27172]

"Seriously ....I mean lets discuss PED's but looking at that photo of a young girl getting a autograph and your making assumptions that she is on steroids .. unbelievable ,,,seriously wrong , paranoid lunacy"

While i do not agree with the argument for PEDS based upon photos - unless you are looking at photos of people obviously on HGH who have ridiculous hands and foreheads.

The most amazing thing about this is the reaction of world class swim coaches who have seen this and are pretending it is normal.
Terry Laughlin a world class swim coach said her ability to win is based upon the fact that when she is in the final part of a race and kicking hard her form gets better not worse !!!!!

Anyone who has swum hard knows that the form and function of the swim stroke deteriorates with tiredness. so for her to be winning one race and setting a world record and having form better than anyone else and beating known dopers who set the records she is beating is one thing.

To do it time and again over a number of days as the tiredness would be building is unbelievable and just ridiculous. Either this girl was born with a natural V02 of 75 and her muscles never get tired or move into oxygen deficit or she has been on the gear.

I am just very very sad that a 15 yr old or her coach or parents are doing this to her at this age.

 

[Nellyspania]

Re: Re:

My wife has a friend who has a similar hairline ....not all women have a werewolf hairline and not all women are photographed with wet hair ....She certainly does not show any effects of steroids. Spots, jaw line. heavily muscled. Its a ridiculous statement based on her hairline.

you are wrong, they are significant muscles for a 15 girl who swims the 1500 metres. You can argue she swims the 200,400 and 800 too, but you are still wrong. They dont do the free weights of the bodybuilders in the gym to shape their muscles and sculpt their physique. it is 100% functional. Not to perve at on a bodybuilding stage.

The control sample is all the women swimmers who have gone before her. And all of the doped swimmers, especially the Australian doped swimmers.

She is about 5'11", and carrying muscle, but no subcutaneous tissue on her face, and her face rendered off all excess red tissue. This is, #NOTNORMAL. The is a rule of thumb correlation between carrying muscle size, versus the other tissue. More muscle, more other tissue.

I’ve checked and she already had that hair line when she was much younger

So I guess it’s not a case of steroids-induced alopecia

... or maybe you underestimate how young she started.

Seriously ....I mean lets discuss PED's but looking at that photo of a young girl getting a autograph and your making assumptions that she is on steroids .. unbelievable ,,,seriously wrong , paranoid lunacy

Her results are suspect, appearances not especially

 

[blackcat]

Re:

I am just very very sad that a 15 yr old or her coach or parents are doing this to her at this age.

This^
H^^^
I^^^^
S^^^^

its and indictment on society, not merely on her coach or parents. someone could have pulled them aside at anytime and said this is just not on.

the devil's advocate for my post is, "what about the gymnasts in the olympics, the young girls who at 10 are probably given hormones to delay their puberty". Same for female divers in the pool.

So it is not merely swimming and Ledecky. Ledecky as cypher.

and... off she goes to Stanford. <eyesroll>

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Her results are suspect, appearances not especially

even as a pic of her at 12 yo +/- a year, you can tell she has zero subcutaneous tissue on her forehead. You can see her arms a ropey and thick, muscles, not subcutaneous tissue other than muscle. not defined like a bodybuilder nor male swimmer, but they look like forearms a future arm wrestler would have. solid forearms. A 12yo girl, lets say for instance, she is only 10, even more of an indictment, she should have subcutaneous tissue on her forehead. There should be an inverse correlation between the tissue on her forehead, and her future arm-wrestler forearms. ofcourse it aint proof, it aint even close to being suspicion. indeed, it could be confirmation bias.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Her results are suspect, appearances not especially

even as a pic of her at 12 yo +/- a year, you can tell she has zero subcutaneous tissue on her forehead. You can see her arms a ropey and thick, muscles, not subcutaneous tissue other than muscle. not defined like a bodybuilder nor male swimmer, but they look like forearms a future arm wrestler would have. solid forearms. A 12yo girl, lets say for instance, she is only 10, even more of an indictment, she should have subcutaneous tissue on her forehead. There should be an inverse correlation between the tissue on her forehead, and her future arm-wrestler forearms. ofcourse it aint proof, it aint even close to being suspicion. indeed, it could be confirmation bias.

Blackcat,,, my eldest son is 12 he is very tall for his age 95th percentile ...he also has 2 friends the same age who are the same height, 5'8....he just finished his first year at secondary school.
In his last year at junior school 2 girls in his class were taller than my son these girls are now 12/13 years old and are 5'9 maybe 5;10 both are taller than my son.
Your making assumptions that are not based on fact just innuendo because she his tall and she has developed muscle from doing a sport she loves, her muscle's are far from outrageous.

Like I said before she may not be clean but there is nothing in her physique that alludes to steroids.
She looks very feminine and looks very healthy. Not even a zit

 

[Rob27172]

Ray -sending the same message twice doesn't mean people are going to read it or take any more notice of it

Also Blackcat doesn't say in his post that her definition is down to steroids or drugs at a young age he is simply stating it is not normal.
My girlfriend is an ex swimmer (UCLA and USA olympic trialist) and she will tell you that the diet and food regime and training regime from a young age is not only - Not Normal it is also not healthy. - She is now a nurse and knows what she is talking about.

So i take it from reading the comments here that there is something that is worrying and it may be her diet and training for a young person is too much - which as has been stated earlier is a society problem we have overlooked for too long. We look at younger and younger athletes to get better results.

and that by the time she is 15 her results are indicative of doping which is equally worrying